Hey I was reading about slin i read a few good posts like Acnemans Insulin FAQ. My main question is that can SlIN be taken alone with good results? If not what are some good Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) to take with it the less the better, also the less detectible the better (three month window of the possiblility of being tested). Over all I'd like to inquire on a good cycle that includes slin. Plus post cycle needs to maintain and recover.

My stats are as so

20Yrs 6'4 240lbs i'd say around 10-12% body fat.

My goals are to gain 20lbs and increase strength.

I train hard and eat hard. I'm pretty smart and I enjoy researching this toppic so Its not like I'll jump into this blind. This would be my first cycle if I do decide to do so.

Also for personal and research interests. From an ethical standpoint is taking Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) or any other anabolic agent in sports that ban such substances right, you can post reasons here or PM me. Or i just might start a whole other post but it was just on my mind right now and am considering writing a term paper on it. I'll post my reasoning in a few days after i recieve some input on your people's thoughts.
At your weight, and possibility of being tested, i suggest 150mg eod of Test Propionate. No need for insulin before you even do one cycle, it is a big step.
This is one of my Favorites!!

Ok, lets have a look at insulin.
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if youre ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...


ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protien, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.

ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.


"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, anavar, primobolan, ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isnt always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.

INSULIN: NonAndrogenic but Anabolic

Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...


So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefor anabolic!


Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insuiln (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.


Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.


Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.


There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.


If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probobly wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protien and little to know fat can be anything from a protien drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you dont need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustmed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. Ive went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesnt yield any better results (except fat!)


Insulin is relativly safe. If you dont take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENNTY of warning! Youll feel dizzy, tired, achey... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times youve tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) Thats why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major danger, but dont mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protien to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)

Well, I cant think of anything else off hand that needs to be said, but if I missed anything, just ask. I may have taken somethng for granted and figured everyone would know or assume on their own...
Ya i know the different between anabolic and androgenic. I read somewhere that some people believe that slin is not to cabible of its anabolic potential unless its taken with HGH or an androgen like Sustanon (sust) or a test. also just for clarification EOD= every other day and ED means everyday right?? why is slin such a big step, it seems to be safer and not detectible. Plus I don't want to get to emerged in Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) and have to be worrying about being tested on top of trying to get away from and prevent the side effects of AAS. well i gotta role talk to you guys later.
Testerone + insulin=synergestic affect.
But you do have testerone anyways right?

They just compliment each other, and a high anrogen/anabolic like test, allows for more room for error when it comes to diet. The reason why insulin is a big step is because if not doen correctly, you can die. If diet is not on the spot, you can get fat. ITs not just a matter of avoiding fat, extra carbs also play a role too.
Right so there is no need really since I am young and full of test anyway so I don't need to take a synthetic to get results or is there a need for more? I understand and am willing with help to understand the diet part of taking slin. I'm just really facinated with this route. You can die from any Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) if not being careful. I'm not worried about getting fat, I have a high metabolism plus I work hard. Fat isn't that bad in my area of life. I'm not doing this for cosmetic reasons I'm looking into gainnig the size and strength needed to enhance my abilities. I'm not trying to be a pest but the only danger is being ignorent am I correct? so from what i understand and with your help and others i would like to understand in full what is needed to be succesfull in taking insulin, so i can make an educated decision.

SO from what i under stand is you gradually increase the amount of insulin taken. Which is taken right after a work out and then right after the shot you need to take in a good amount of carbs say around 60+ plus some protien. Can I assume that if I take a weight gainer that i preffer that has 89g of carbs 50g of protien and 6g of fat that would be a good start for right after the shot? Then 1 hour later eat a meal like chiken breast or tuna with somethin like rice or patato salad? Also a question I love to eat meat, there is this great place that has killer sausage and brisquit that is processed from the best beef which is High in efa's omega-6 and 3. I'm not sure if the sausage is made like all other sausages that are made mainly out of fat, if so I should avoid it right, but the brisquit should be ok right? Well to move on Then you should keep around some gatorade just incase some syptoms start to come on near the end of the insulin leaving the body. Anything esle important I need to know I would like to know as much as possible on this subject. Thanks everybody.
Fat with insulin is a no no, especially when active, it doesnt matter if its omega 3 or 6's. Insulin transport fat to fat cells. If your deadset on slin, do some more research, as it seems you are deadset on it.
Ok I was just seeing, I post most of that just to see if i got the jist of slin and what more I need to know, I did a pretty good search on it, i just didn't see a lot of details about it except the few on the articles like above, I appriciate your help raodhouse. Anyone else have and words of wisdom out there? I'd like to learn as much as possible!! I do some more searches and hopefully ya'll will give me some good info.
Eating fat and slin DOES NOT mean you get fat unless you go buck wild and just eat a bucket of lard with your slin shot.

Insulin and Lipid Metabolism
The metabolic pathways for utilization of fats and carbohydrates are deeply and intricately intertwined. Considering insulin's profound effects on carbohydrate metabolism, it stands to reason that insulin also has important effects on lipid metabolism. Notable effects of insulin on lipid metabolism include the following:
* Insulin promotes synthesis of fatty acids in the liver. As discussed above, insulin is stimulatory to synthesis of glycogen in the liver. However, as glycogen accumulates to high levels (roughly 5% of liver mass), further synthesis is strongly suppressed.
When the liver is saturated with glycogen, any additional glucose taken up by hepatocytes is shunted into pathways leading to synthesis of fatty acids, which are exported from the liver as lipoproteins. The lipoproteins are ripped apart in the circulation, providing free fatty acids for use in other tissues, including adipocytes, which use them to synthesize triglyceride.
* Insulin inhibits breakdown of fat in adipose tissue by inhibiting the intracellular lipase that hydrolyzes triglycerides to release fatty acids.
Insulin facilitates entry of glucose into adipocytes, and within those cells, glucose can be used to synthesize glycerol. This glycerol, along with the fatty acids delivered from the liver, are used to synthesize triglyceride within the adipocyte. By these mechanisms, insulin is involved in further accumulation of triglyceride in fat cells.

We can see here the description of insulin as a shuttling agent that will just shove whatever you give it in a similar tissue type is wrong. Insulin motivates the use of nutrients available to the body. When insulin begins decreasing the levels of glucose in the blood it shuttles them to muscle tissue, the brain and the liver. When the muscles and brain are saturated the liver begins storing glucose. This is the stage that causes problems. When the liver becomes saturated with glucose (roughly 5% of its weight) it will begin shuttling the excess glucose into adipose tissue. This is where fat storage begins.

So how do we avoid getting fat from insulin?
It is easy, know your body. This is a perquisite for using insulin or Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) in the first place. We want to give our body the amount of energy it needs to recover. And we want to be sure to not give it to much or it will begin making fat very efficiently. What does your body need after a work out? This formula has been tried both scientifically and in gyms around the world.

Carbohydrates: 0.8-1.0 g/kg of bodyweight
Protein: 0.4-0.6 g/kg of bodyweight

Eating more calories than you need at the time while on slin does get you fat.

As for slin alone I have done 3 short (4 week) cycles of that 2 for gaining and one while dieting and loved them all.
What kind of gains did you (elijah) make on your slin alone? OR anyone else can comment on there gains too. So the cycle for slin is 4 weeks on and 3wks off right? And its taken only after workouts. Anyone have any knowlege on the efects of a person who is doing a speed and weight lifting split. SO i guess my question is does it help improve speed, ie developement of fast twitch muscle? I love the responses I'm getting, keep them coming this is a very interesting topic to me. Thanks again!
I am not sure about the effects on speed training.
My gains were great, about 20 lb in the 4 weeks. Probably about 2 lb of that was fat. Very "keepable" I had 4 wisdom teeth cut out and couldn't eat (expect milk, oatmeal and protein shakes) for 3 days at the end of the 4 weeks. I kept protein high and only lost about a pound, and no strength loss when I finally got back to the gym.
The 20 lb was at VERY high doses of slin, I was curious how far I could push the dosage. So do not expect that. 10 lb if you train and eat right is not unlikely. I would think slin may not be the best for the speed though because it does pack on weight. You could use it post speed work out with lower doses (4-6 iu) and not post weight lifting for faster recovery. Try that for 3 weeks and see how it does. If you don't loose speed or if you gain it, try using it after lifting weights also and see how that does. Good luck man, let us know how it goes or any other questions.
Man I've just read about every post on slin. A lot of good stuff out there. Everyone says Humolog is best for a newbie, but if its script only then isn't that kind of a hastle or how is it possible to get a hold of script stuff....or is it just easier to get Humolin and just be responsible and to it the right way and not get sloppy, plus everyone says it seems to be more anabolic and is better for bulking.

Few Qs i just thought of
1. How imediate should a shot 15 min drive to the house ok before shot?
2. What is the best dose or way to check for a allergic reaction to slin, so the reaction is minimal if one is alleric to it?
3. I read that some people wait to eat or take their shake until they get symptons of hypoglycimia, is this smart? Or would it be better just to take a consistant amount of carbs and prot until it leaves the system?
1. Immeadatley psot workout, just throw it in your gym bag.
2. Chances of being allerigic are slim to none, but its usaully recomended to start off at 4ius, so Im sure you would see it on day 1.
3. The only reason why some do this, is to induce hyp0glcemic GH release, but hypoglycemia also blunts test levels and raises cortisol. So if you are doing just slin as stated, this would be not recomended at all.

Do a google search for Canadian Pharmacies, or search the board, i think i posted a link a while back, you can order humalog to the states via America Jr.
I think you should just do a small Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle, I wouldn't suggest slin by itself and certainly not for someone who's never used anything. You could easily accomplich your goals with a decent first cycle, good training and diet without taking the risk of using slin even though I don't thinks it's as dangerous as most AS LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!!! and have someone to look out for you while it's active. If you are dead set on it though, do some test and maybe tren with it.
Doc Banner said:
I think you should just do a small Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle, I wouldn't suggest slin by itself and certainly not for someone who's never used anything. You could easily accomplich your goals with a decent first cycle, good training and diet without taking the risk of using slin even though I don't thinks it's as dangerous as most AS LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!!! and have someone to look out for you while it's active. If you are dead set on it though, do some test and maybe tren with it.

Two things to consider here.
Legality/availability. Tren (from finaplex) is easy to get, test and other Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) while easy to get are much more likely to get you busted (even if that isn't a great risk)
Good tren cycle ~115 (2 carts of fin-h =60) (conversion kit=25) (clomid/nolva =25+)

Slin cycle 26 (1 bottle hum-r=23) (pack of darts=3)

Sometimes you do what you can. :)

Best of all; both =141, with great results maybe some test but that can jack up the cost quite a bit also.
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When you guys buy your Humalog from the pharmacy, what do you ask them?
"Can I buy some humalog?"

Do they ever give you a hard time? Do they ask for proof that you are diabetic? Any tips?
Well in my opinion why does someone who has taken Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) before make them ready or more knowlegable about slin? Everyone who uses slin has done it for the first I don't see the corilation with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) and slin in the fact that it makes someone ready or not? Don't get offended I'm not flaming anyone. I'm just trying to understand why its anymore dangerous for me than someone who has done Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) and doing it for the first time. Also my thought is that everyone says since your 20 you have all the test you then while i'm young and have a healthy internal structure, wouldn't it actually be safer and be less overall harmful, plus there isn't the whole worry about gyno and wating for test rebound? I love the advice though, keep it coming its good to see people who care and have knowlege on the subject.
Also doc what would this small cycle consist of? My stats are above. Plus a three month period of not the possibility of being tested. I want to be open to other alternatives, even though I'm more interested in slin, but time and research could change that.
A good small cycle to start with that would clear your system fast could be 75mg of tren or prop ED, or 50mg of each ED. I doubt letro, ana, or nolva would be needed, unless you choose the 75mg of prop ED (in which case I'd say .5mg of ana or 1.25mg of letro EOD would be a good place to start and if you have troulbe you could bump it up to ED), but either way, if your gonna use test, you wanna have an anti-e on hand in case. I'll get back to you on the dectection times when I get the chance to look them up.

Elijah makes a good point about tren being easy to get and fairly cheap....if you don't have a reliable source then that'd be your best bet.
I've read that tren is pretty hard on the system and is not recomended for newbies? SO is that why you recomend the 75-50 instead of 150?