Something not right, need opinions.

SixHouse

New member
For a long time I was on a simple TRT protocol that looked like this:

Every 3.5 days
50mg Cypionate
500iu HCG

With that, my labs looked like this (reference range in parentheses):

Total testosterone 820 (264 - 916)
Free testosterone 15 (6.8 - 21.5)
DHEA 142.8 (102.6 - 416.3)
Estradiol sensitive 23.2 (8.0 - 35.0)
SHBG 40.5 (16.5 - 55.9)

On this protocol, and eating lots of good calories, I'm able to put on a lot of muscle and my strength is great. For personal reasons I stopped everything cold turkey. 5 weeks later I was amazed at how much I lost. I looked and felt like shit. Total crash. E2 was basically zero, total testosterone was 50. So I started the protocol again. Only difference is that now I do 150mg Cypionate per week (on the advice of 2 doctors).

Well... it's been 6 weeks and something isn't right. I've been in the gym for 20 years so I know how my body should respond. My strength is basically back to where it was, and my weight is even the same. But I don't "look" big anymore, and I'm soft... not full and hard like I used to be. What could be happening? Logic tells me the only thing that's different is that my testosterone is higher, so E2 also higher? Could that be the problem?

Would love to hear some thought bc this is really bumming me out.
 
Stopping cold turkey probably wasn't the best choice. Should have done PCT.

You need to get fresh blood work, get full panels including e2, add "health panels" too if they offer it, without it, we can only guess whats wrong.
 
Stopping cold turkey probably wasn't the best choice. Should have done PCT.

You need to get fresh blood work, get full panels including e2, add "health panels" too if they offer it, without it, we can only guess whats wrong.

Actually, stopping cold turkey is the absolute fastest way to restart normal hormonal functionality. PCT is never "necessary," it simply helps with symptoms, at the price of prolonging a full restart. I've done it both ways and can confirm that as long as you're doing HCG the whole time you're on testosterone, your testicles should already be firing and ready for LH. Sure, Clomid can get LH going sooner, but some of us can't tolerate Clomid. And then when you stop the Clomid there's more time involved while your body adjusts again to find a normal level of LH production. No thanks. I'll suck it up and feel like shit for a few weeks on the cold turkey method.

I had new labs done today and common sense tells me testosterone and E2 will be higher since I've been doing more Cypionate. Other than that there won't be any significant changes. Again, I know this because I've been doing this for a long time and I know my body well. So I'm wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar with fluctuating E2 levels. There are lots of bro-scientists that argue all day about whether or not E2 is necessary for muscle growth. My E2 has always been stable in the high/normal range, and I've never experienced what I'm experiencing now. So it seems a higher E2 is definitely affecting my muscle growth and development. Hoping someone has seen this before.
 
havnt seen to many people just stop cold turkey and not doing pct, so hows that working for you again?
 
Actually, stopping cold turkey is the absolute fastest way to restart normal hormonal functionality. PCT is never "necessary," it simply helps with symptoms, at the price of prolonging a full restart. I've done it both ways and can confirm that as long as you're doing HCG the whole time you're on testosterone, your testicles should already be firing and ready for LH. Sure, Clomid can get LH going sooner, but some of us can't tolerate Clomid. And then when you stop the Clomid there's more time involved while your body adjusts again to find a normal level of LH production. No thanks. I'll suck it up and feel like shit for a few weeks on the cold turkey method.

I had new labs done today and common sense tells me testosterone and E2 will be higher since I've been doing more Cypionate. Other than that there won't be any significant changes. Again, I know this because I've been doing this for a long time and I know my body well. So I'm wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar with fluctuating E2 levels. There are lots of bro-scientists that argue all day about whether or not E2 is necessary for muscle growth. My E2 has always been stable in the high/normal range, and I've never experienced what I'm experiencing now. So it seems a higher E2 is definitely affecting my muscle growth and development. Hoping someone has seen this before.

You could also argue not doing PCT comes at the price of what your experiencing right now. Could spin it to pretty much any compound or scenario...

Not sure what your intent with this thread is. You seem confident in what the problem is, the cause and you've chosen to suck it up and wait/hope your body adjusts.
What else is there to discuss ?
 
Definitely E-2 if you aren't using an AI.
And if you are, your Dosing is probably Off.

Excess Estrogen will give your Muscles that Soft Pudgy Look.

Do an Estradiol Bloodwork, and see where you are...................................... JP
P.S.
Probably need just a Very Low Dose of an AI.
I would use Aromasin, and Not Arimidex, to avoid Estrogen Rebound.
 
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Actually, stopping cold turkey is the absolute fastest way to restart normal hormonal functionality. PCT is never "necessary," it simply helps with symptoms, at the price of prolonging a full restart. I've done it both ways and can confirm that as long as you're doing HCG the whole time you're on testosterone, your testicles should already be firing and ready for LH. Sure, Clomid can get LH going sooner, but some of us can't tolerate Clomid. And then when you stop the Clomid there's more time involved while your body adjusts again to find a normal level of LH production. No thanks. I'll suck it up and feel like shit for a few weeks on the cold turkey method.

I had new labs done today and common sense tells me testosterone and E2 will be higher since I've been doing more Cypionate. Other than that there won't be any significant changes. Again, I know this because I've been doing this for a long time and I know my body well. So I'm wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar with fluctuating E2 levels. There are lots of bro-scientists that argue all day about whether or not E2 is necessary for muscle growth. My E2 has always been stable in the high/normal range, and I've never experienced what I'm experiencing now. So it seems a higher E2 is definitely affecting my muscle growth and development. Hoping someone has seen this before.

Why are you asking for advice if you know sooo much.
 
Definitely E-2 if you aren't using an AI.
And if you are, your Dosing is probably Off.

Excess Estrogen will give your Muscles that Soft Pudgy Look.

Do an Estradiol Bloodwork, and see where you are...................................... JP
P.S.
Probably need just a Very Low Dose of an AI.
I would use Aromasin, and Not Arimidex, to avoid Estrogen Rebound.

Thank you. I had some seriously itchy nipples for a while so for the very first time last Fri (and then again yesterday) I took 0.125mg Anastrozole. Rx says "take 2-3 per week" but this is the first time ever using a AI so I'm guessing I'll have to play with the dose and timing. When I do 100mg Cypionate weekly I've never needed one, but at 150mg per week I guess I do. I had blood taken yesterday so I hope to know more in a few days.
 
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