SP's on/off-season log

Bro I luv dumbell pullovers, when I dont do them my back just doesnt feel the same tightness under my armpits. I think they add some serious width way high. Like the quote above, I go back as far as I can after I warm up with lesser weight. Sometimes the dumbell touches the ground then back up barely missing my nose. Sometimes on the last rep I have to turn my face to save my nose from being smashed.
Used to have shoulder issues, but i think this exercise has strengthened the shoulder girdle because it feels real stable now


I too am a big fan of DB pullovers and incorperate them from time to time in either chest or back, they have their place. Jut switch up angles and whatnot so it doesnt get stale. I agree with Zilla on most thing but DB pullovers having no place in a program, dont think so.
 
My reasoning for thinking "standard" dumbbell pullovers suck is the same reasoning that John has for altering the technique for the move - your never going to get enough tension on the target muscles to make the move worth doing.
The fact that most people don't even know what it trains - chest or back - to me shows just how poor an exercise choice it is considering what's available.

I cant comment too much on the technique meadows uses since I've never experimented with it but it sounds better than the standard variety. For clients, IME doing them on a decline bench or using the machine is the best way to get around the weaknesses of the standard move.
In fact, dorian yates (arguably the greatest back development ever in bodybuilding) relied on the machine version of pullovers NOT the standard variety.
I should also add that I don't know any successful natural bodybuilders who do pullovers regularly - take that as you wish.

So yes, you can still do pullovers if you adjust your technique on them but, IME, why bother when there are so many other alternatives?
Rowing with elbows close to the body, rack chins, yates style deadlifts where the pulling emphasis is on the lats, supersetting a row move with standing pulldowns - the list is endless :)

I've always said the machine/cable version of the pullover can be a good move, especially after a rowing exercise when the bimers are shot and you really want to dial in your lats.
Then you have a small number of guys who, for biomechanical reasons, chins/pulldowns just aren't good lat movements. For this group, a good pullover machine with good technique can be a very effective tool for lat development.

So yes, by all means keep doing an alternative version of pullovers (decline, machine/cable, meadows, etc) if you feel you need them for growth. Just be aware that the standard move sucks - no matter how you look at it.
 
Oh and btw Zilla no disrespect in the comment I made I hope you know that brother. I just personally find them effective to a certain degree. What I DO agree with you on though is the pullover machine being far superior. Only two gyms ive even been to had that machine and its an awesome machine!
 
Oh and btw Zilla no disrespect in the comment I made I hope you know that brother. I just personally find them effective to a certain degree. What I DO agree with you on though is the pullover machine being far superior. Only two gyms ive even been to had that machine and its an awesome machine!

None taken dude - I always enjoy discussing training with you guys :)
 
Weight 224

Mountain dog leg training...if you want an idea of what it looks like, this is obviously not the same program I did but it will give you a good idea: http://youtu.be/89jzMKKP1oM

Mon - legs - reps all over the place
warmup - indoor track
seated leg curls - two warmup and three working sets, then a fourth working set that ended with 20~25 short-ROM partials (4-6")... WOW
chain squat - subbed in reverse band squats (no chains, obviously) - four working sets, target rep range was low with explosive concentric so I ended up going with 405-455
regular ATG back squat - two sets with moderate weight (12x315)
superset seated calf raise - four sets, with slow eccentric / quick concentric
leg press - modified pyramid/MTUT/quasi-widowmaker set - take a weight that is 60% of your 10RM...do four reps. Have a partner add a plate to each side. Four more reps...keep going until you can't. For me it was 6 plates a side, then 7, then 8, then 9, then 10 for 4 reps each.
leg extension - kick the weight out and hold/flex for two seconds on each rep - three sets....15 reps on the first, add weight and 10 reps on the second, drop weight slightly and do 20 reps with no flex...then pause 5 seconds, and try for 15 partials (only got about 10)
quad/fascia stretching - in between each leg extension set, pretty extreme quad/anterior tibialus stretch for 10 then 20 then 30 seconds
DB SLDL - did BB version instead - high-ish reps (per John Meadows, sorry MRZ) for two working sets
standing calf raise - 10 reps, then hold for 10 seconds, then repeat two more times...this is one set. Two working sets of this...
superset lower back/hyperextension - three sets, light(25lb) weight on chest for about 10-12 reps

Now, THAT was a leg workout. Did preWO slin too, and had proper intraWO nutrition for the first time in months...seemed to make a hell of a difference. Felt great this morning, still do...
 
Weight 225

Weight's climbing...yeah buddy. Eating right & sleeping well...still doing a little cardio but finally pushing that scale in the right direction, consistently.

Tue - chest/shoulders - lower rep range
warmup - indoor track
internal/external rotation - two sets of each per arm
superset hanging leg raise - four sets
cable flyes - two warmup sets
(low) incline DB press - two warmup then four working sets - one second flex @ full contraction & deep stretch at the bottom
chain bench press - used bands in the power rack on this one, one second pause at chest depth and not quite full-lockout, five reps for five working sets
incline BB press - warmup/test set, then three working sets...stop two inches above chest and not quite full-lockout on this one either
ladder pushup on cambered bar - used a flat bar, at three heights - two to three reps shy of failure at lowest pin setting, then immediately to failure six inches above, and finally to failure six inches above that
lateral DB raise - one warmup and three working sets
cage press - simply pins in a squat rack at chin height, simulating a smith but 'better' according to Meadows - five reps for five working sets
rear delt "DESTROYER" set - basically 100 reps of rear lateral DB raise hell...I didn't quite get the weight right so I ended up with 60 reps total first, then another 40 with a lighter weight. To explain I will just quote the man...

John Meadows:
Rear delt destroyer set - Before you do this set, look in the mirror at your rear delts. You are about to make it stick out an extra inch or two from this set. Rear delts grow fast off high reps. This requires pain tolerance, and heart, but it will pay off. You are going to do rear delt raises while laying face down on an incline pad. Now here is the key to these, we are only going to do partial reps. I call these hang and swings. Straighten your arms out, all the way. When you do the partial, just bring the weight up about 6 to 8 inches. Don't lift the weight with your lats, your traps, etc. Just hinge off your shoulder. Your rear delts will contract, they have to if your arms are hanging straight.

Ok so here we go. Pick a weight that you might do for 6 reps on a regular side lateral. You are going to do 60 reps. Remember these are just swings. When it starts burning at 30, just close your eyes, and keep the weight moving, I don't care if they are moving 1 inch, just keep it moving. Relax your traps, keep your arms straight, and swing, say it over and over during your set. After 60 cut the weight in half, take 5 deep breaths and do 30 more. After this, cut the weight in half again, and do 10 reps.

Now stand up, and look in the mirror at your rear delts. 1 total work set.

Goal - Extreme pump to deliver nutrients and trap growth factors in the muscle. The more blood the better.
 
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Weight 225

Had someone with me so it was good that I'd preview'd this workout on Sunday, actually, and at my new 'normal' gym so I knew where all the equipment I needed was + it wasn't terribly busy at 6am.


Wed - back - low/moderate reps
warmup - indoor track
meadows' row - uses one hand on the end of a BB with 25lb plates to row - warmup then four working sets
smith row - used the machine this time - four working sets, 'explosive' concentric and really focus on pulling elbows up with lats (not bi's)
DB pullover - same description as sunday, four working sets, short ROM to keep constant tension on lats
DB shrug - three sets with three second pause at the top
deadlift - didn't have chains so just did conventional, moderate/heavy/moderate weight for three working sets
superset bodyweight pullup - two sets
(lower) back extension - bodyweight only, four sets
decline leg raise - four sets
rope bicep curl - three burnout sets

PM Cardio:
45min LISS - indoor track
20min posing practice
 
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Weight 225

Had someone with me so it was good that I'd preview'd this workout on Sunday, actually, and at my new 'normal' gym so I knew where all the equipment I needed was + it wasn't terribly busy at 6am.


Wed - back - low/moderate reps
warmup - indoor track
meadows' row - uses one hand on the end of a BB with 25lb plates to row - warmup then four working sets
smith row - used the machine this time - four working sets, 'explosive' concentric and really focus on pulling elbows up with lats (not bi's)
DB pullover - same description as sunday, four working sets, short ROM to keep constant tension on lats
DB shrug - three sets with three second pause at the top
deadlift - didn't have chains so just did conventional, moderate/heavy/moderate weight for three working sets
superset bodyweight pullup - two sets
(lower) back extension - bodyweight only, four sets
decline leg raise - four sets
rope bicep curl - three burnout sets

almost there brother!! i actually think we should aim for a higher goal weight
 
Weight 227

Whoa...all I can say is...preWO slin, intraWO nutrition (dextrose! and bcaas/creatine:]) must be helping a lot, because meals are bang on but suddenly the scale is really taking off, even doing cardio and not looking too bloofy in the mirror so...dot dot dot?

Thu - chest/delts 'pump day' - moderate to high reps
warmup - indoor track
HS PL chest press - neutral grip (gripping out beyond the handles, on the box iron...justin compton posted a picture of himself doing this on instagram a day or two ago actually) - warmup then four working sets
superset shoulder dislocations (meadows calls them 'over and backs w/ band') between each set
weighted pec minor dips - first time for me trying these...you lock your elbows at a dip station and reverse shrug, basically just flexing your pecs to move ~2-4" vertically, four working sets
superset hanging leg raise - four sets - half for abs and half to try to get some blood OUT of my shoulders, pump was unbelievable
also super-superset shoulder dislocations with band between each set

bent over lateral DB raise - regular 15-20 rep range then 10 more cheat reps where you basically hang the DBs and just contract your rear delts for 4-6" ROM once the initial 15-20 are done, four working sets
superset shoulder dislocations, again/still between each set
spidercrawl - difficult to explain, four working sets - here is the video of john himself performing it: http://youtu.be/IeKQCX-qvp8
superset shoulder dislocations

added at the end some smith shrugs, moderate to heavy weight and a few more lower back extensions
 
Weight 227

Whoa...all I can say is...preWO slin, intraWO nutrition (dextrose! and bcaas/creatine:]) must be helping a lot, because meals are bang on but suddenly the scale is really taking off, even doing cardio and not looking too bloofy in the mirror so...dot dot dot?

Thu - chest/delts 'pump day' - moderate to high reps
warmup - indoor track
HS PL chest press - neutral grip (gripping out beyond the handles, on the box iron...justin compton posted a picture of himself doing this on instagram a day or two ago actually) - warmup then four working sets
superset shoulder dislocations (meadows calls them 'over and backs w/ band') between each set
weighted pec minor dips - first time for me trying these...you lock your elbows at a dip station and reverse shrug, basically just flexing your pecs to move ~2-4" vertically, four working sets
superset hanging leg raise - four sets - half for abs and half to try to get some blood OUT of my shoulders, pump was unbelievable
also super-superset shoulder dislocations with band between each set

bent over lateral DB raise - regular 15-20 rep range then 10 more cheat reps where you basically hang the DBs and just contract your rear delts for 4-6" ROM once the initial 15-20 are done, four working sets
superset shoulder dislocations, again/still between each set
spidercrawl - difficult to explain, four working sets - here is the video of john himself performing it: http://youtu.be/IeKQCX-qvp8
superset shoulder dislocations

added at the end some smith shrugs, moderate to heavy weight and a few more lower back extensions

missed your check in this morning...
 
missed your check in this morning...

Sent you an email big guy, sorry about that. Above weight is unfasted of course so I'm technically not quite 3lbs away from 230, but if you read/see this please update the title to "240+" and get rid of 'summer edition' heh
 
Slightly late to the party but my views on trying to create a split to hit everything twice a week:

Based on the groups your training snow I would do either 3 muscles per workout, for 3 workouts done 2x week or a basic upper/lower split done 4x week.

The 3 muscles per workout is pretty much what bigben and buzzbait do.
For example:
Workout 1 - chest, triceps, front delts
Workout 2 - Back, biceps, rear/side delts
Workout 3 - Legs and core (abs/lower back)

This type of protocol lets you train 6x week with a rest day and you can chuck any accessory moves (forearm work, etc) into any of the days that you wish. IMO, this is the easiest way to hit everything twice if sufficient volume is a concern.

The upper/lower split speaks for itself and is extremely underrated.
2 Exercises for an appropriate number of sets & reps is more than enough to get good results, this can easily be achieved through the upper/lower split.
This style of split also allows you see to exactly what is lagging behind since your hitting a lot of muscles and any weak points will stand out quite a bit.
Most advanced guys completely avoid this style because they place the emphasis on volume while I prefer to focus on intensity - its not about quantity of the work you can do, its about the quality :)

Your original idea isn't necessarily a bad split, its just difficult to follow the "train everything twice a week" rule on that protocol.
No one can really give a fixed split but a good rule would be to implement more time for the weak areas and less on the strong. For example, if your biceps are a weak point then it doesn't make sense to do a bunch of back movements with only 2 curl variations for biceps. If the chest is your strongest point then it doesn't make sense focusing primarily on the chest with limited volume on triceps, etc.

Great input Zilla, as ever...

I'm guessing that the duration of these workouts will be a lot longer due to the grouping of the bodyparts...
Would you say 80-90mins approx per workout - or is that stretching it too far?
 
Great input Zilla, as ever...

I'm guessing that the duration of these workouts will be a lot longer due to the grouping of the bodyparts...
Would you say 80-90mins approx per workout - or is that stretching it too far?

I would say that 80-90 mins is a good bet if your training 3 groups per session, yes.
I personally follow a similar routine to what I mentioned and find that it takes 90 mins - even with plenty of rest between sets.

Of course it also depends on how many movements your doing per muscle group - I see no need to do more than 2/3 per muscle in this type of split, otherwise your wasting time and the workout will drag to the 120-150min mark.
 
I would say that 80-90 mins is a good bet if your training 3 groups per session, yes.
I personally follow a similar routine to what I mentioned and find that it takes 90 mins - even with plenty of rest between sets.

Of course it also depends on how many movements your doing per muscle group - I see no need to do more than 2/3 per muscle in this type of split, otherwise your wasting time and the workout will drag to the 120-150min mark.

haha, i love hearing about guys spending 2 to 2 1/2 hours in the gym... its like, what the hell are you doing??

45 to 90 min.. seriously... and 90 min is stretching it unless youre doing multiple muscle groups..

most my exercises setups take 45-60 min..

quality of time in the gym over quantity.. you'll reduce your chances of injury while youre at it..
 
Mince pie? If that's a euphemism for poop...I didn't have time for my usual AM bowel movement before the gym since I woke up late haha.

If that's not what you meant...well, now you have TMI anyways lol ;)

Shit... sorry I totally forgot that mince pies are a UK thing (Christmas treat) - don't worry, you're not missing anything, I love them, but I'm a bit weird like that lol


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