Starting first cycle soon. have a look (questions)

[makegainz]

FIRST CYCLE -

test prop 100mg EOD (8 weeks)
arimidex on cycle .5mg EOD
PCT - nolva 40/40/20/20/20/20

QUESTIONS -

should i add clomid? I read a sticky and it basically said nolvas better and since its a simple cycle i wouldn't need clomid. what do you guys think?
should i add hcg?


I know many will recommend test e at 500mg for first but after a lot of thought ive decided i want to go with prop only as it suits MY goals. any OTHER advice would be appreciated. thanks

 

[MustangDX]

Clomid/Nolva combo is a MUST for post cycle therapy (pct). Clomid:50/50/50/50, Nolva 40/40/20/20

 

[makegainz]

Clomid/Nolva combo is a MUST for post cycle therapy (pct). Clomid:50/50/50/50, Nolva 40/40/20/20

exactly how long after last injection should i start post cycle therapy (pct)? Alright thanks.

 

[DreDay187]

Add Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for the duration of the cycle 2pins a week of 250iu. And as Mustang said, Nolva AND clomid. Clomid would probably be a better choice if you had to pick one but both are best and recommended

 

[DreDay187]

exactly how long after last injection should i start post cycle therapy (pct)? Alright thanks.

3-5days is fine I believe.

 

[makegainz]

3-5days is fine I believe.

alright thanks for the responses. def adding the clomid then.

should it be nolva - 40/40/20/20 clomid 50/50/50/50 or nolva 40/40/20/20/20/20 clomid 100/100/50/50/25/25?

and for the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) whats the pros/cons of running throughout as opposed to starting the last week of cycle?

 

[gaintothemax]

Yeah I'd add in clomid that way you know your good.

 

[CptFKNplanet]

and for the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) whats the pros/cons of running throughout as opposed to starting the last week of cycle?

Put simply, it keeps everything running from the start instead of blasting and restarting at the end of the cycle.

Read through this as it goes into great detail http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/653703-hcg-cycle-benefits-mixing-administration-details.html

 

[DreDay187]

alright thanks for the responses. def adding the clomid then.

should it be nolva - 40/40/20/20 clomid 50/50/50/50 or nolva 40/40/20/20/20/20 clomid 100/100/50/50/25/25?

and for the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) whats the pros/cons of running throughout as opposed to starting the last week of cycle?

Either of those dosages work but no need for clomid at 100mg, 50mg for a week or two than 25mg last 2-3 wks is fine.

There are only pros to running it throughout instead of waiting. You'll prevent testicular atrophy, reduce intra-testicular E2 by not having to blast it, and the length of time being suppressed is why affects recovery, by taking it during the cycle you prevent the testes from shrinking which will be easier on recovery. Prevention by running throughout the cycle is better than treating after the fact by blasting.

 

[makegainz]

Ok so UPDATED version of cycle -

test prop 100mg eod
arimidex .5mg eod
PCT - nolva 40/40/20/20 clomid 50/50/50/50 (starting 3 days after last injection)
HCG throughout cycle. 2 pins at 250 iu each. (mondays and thursdays)

i'm guessing Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) should be run up till the end of pct right?

Thank you all for the advice. so much great info.

 

[3J]

i personally dont think you need nolva.. clomid will be more than enough..

nolva reduces igf levels in pct

 

[CptFKNplanet]

Ok so UPDATED version of cycle -

test prop 100mg eod
arimidex .5mg eod
PCT - nolva 40/40/20/20 clomid 50/50/50/50 (starting 3 days after last injection)
HCG throughout cycle. 2 pins at 250 iu each. (mondays and thursdays)

i'm guessing Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) should be run up till the end of pct right?

Thank you all for the advice. so much great info.

No, run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) til the end of your cycle... not in PCT.

 

[makegainz]

i personally dont think you need nolva.. clomid will be more than enough..

nolva reduces igf levels in pct

now im confused some say combo of both is a must

 

[Rumpy]

His cycle is only 350mg per week, and he's only running it for 8 weeks. That's a pretty short and weak cycle. It's not what I would recommend, but if that's what he wants to run . . . You shouldn't need too much in the way of PCT for this. The basic Clomid at 50mg and Nolva at 20mg/day for 4 weeks should be was more than enough. At that low dose of prop I would think 2-3 days should be long enough before you start post cycle therapy (pct). Like 3J said, you could probably get away with just clomid. 3 Weeks might even be enough, what do you think 3J?

OP, I don't know what your goals are, but 350 is enough to shut you down and will carry all the risks of a full cycle, but you will see only limited benefit from it. And even with prop, you'll really just be getting started at 8 weeks, just in time to stop. 500 for 12 weeks is recommended for a good reason. It is a mild, just dipping your toe cycle. A lot of guys have spent a lot of years figuring out what works best. I think you'd do well to listen to them.

 

[DreDay187]

now im confused some say combo of both is a must

Nolva and clomid work synergistically together. Clomid increases the amplitude of LH secretion while Nolva increases the frequency but not the amplitude of Lh secretion. Nolva also forces clomid to work harder and be more effective since they both have to fight for the same receptors. Here's an excellent thread about the reasonin for both:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/653712-clomid-nolva-both-required-better-chance-recovery.html

 

[DreDay187]

Like Cap said, stop Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at least 4days before PCT bc Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is suppressive itself and you need it cleared from your body before SERM's can work fully.

Also like Rumpy said, you're shutting yourself down for something that's barely over a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose or what you'd make naturally. Think about doing a minimum of 400mg/wk or more. Maybe 125mg EOD or 150mg EOD.

 

[Rumpy]

^^^ What Doc said. I skipped over the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) part.

 

[makegainz]

^^^ What Doc said. I skipped over the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) part.

Thanks for your input rumpy. ive heard that after 8 weeks weight gain usually plateus and sides to gains ratio is usually not worth it... as you said maybe i am just dipping my toe with this cycle but knowing how i react to the test will help me plan my cycles much better in the future rather than taking more than i can handle and then just being horrified of juice. this is probably a long term thing so even if my gains arent crazy great i'd be okay with it. that being said would 125mg a week for 8 weeks be better?

 

[DreDay187]

Thanks for your input rumpy. ive heard that after 8 weeks weight gain usually plateus and sides to gains ratio is usually not worth it... as you said maybe i am just dipping my toe with this cycle but knowing how i react to the test will help me plan my cycles much better in the future rather than taking more than i can handle and then just being horrified of juice. this is probably a long term thing so even if my gains arent crazy great i'd be okay with it. that being said would 125mg a week for 8 weeks be better?

You're right and its always better to be safe rather than sorry but hunk about it like this: at 100mg EOD it averages out to 350mg per wk. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doses are usually 100-250mg per week. At 125mg EOD it comes out to 437.5mg/wk. 437.5mg is much further above the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) typical range but still a very light cycle. On my first I went with ~625mg/wk and results were great and I didn't BLOW up like crazy which is what I wanted. I think if you want to go easy your first cycle do no less than 400mg/wk and up to even 600mg a week would be fine.

125mg EOD is much better than what you originally proposed.

 

[Rumpy]

Wow, not sure where you heard that. I think for most people their gains really start to take off at about 8 weeks, that last month of a 12 week cycle is where most people see most of their gains and it's why a lot of guys go for 16-20 weeks on future cycles. As far as being turned off by juice, I think your proposed cycle is way more likely to do that. Prop will hurt more than E or C when you inject it, and you're injecting 3-1/2 times per week, rather than 2. That seems like a big potential turn off. As far as being more than you can handle, 500 really is the sweet spot for low sides, testing how you react, and seeing some modest results. Trust me, if your way was better, all of the stickies would say to do that. Don't get me wrong being overly cautious and starting slow is a good thing, but 500 week is overly cautious and starting slow. Listen to conventional wisdom and don't try to reinvent the wheel. Your cycle is too short, it's too weak, it will have a lot of PIP, and you'll be pinning more often than needed. I know it's been said a thousand times before, but read the stickies. They really were written just for you. They are what's best for you.