steroid clinic adviser/doctor told me different

[joe d]

Haha. Not necessarily trying to rip him but I have to assume that Joe D is an experienced AAS user by the way he tries to come off i dont try to come off in any way. i just share what i have.and the fact that he has run tren. I seriously just can't take anyone serious who tells people to run Dbol and Anavar (var) only cycles unless you are a girl wanting to run Anavar (var) . first i dont tell anyone to do anything. i do however know that dbol and Anavar (var) can be run solo with success. Anavar (var) has worked well for many athletes mma/wrestling is where ive seen itn and dbol for the bb that doesnt need a lot to grow. i have experienced this first hand and have seen several others in person along with countless people on the net. I honestly wouldn't take any advice from someone who says that. opening your mind to new ideas can help you Just like I wouldn't get trained by a fat ass personal trainer. what if that fat ass used to be at the level you wish to be at. Lol. He also just contradicts himself all the time. i actually dont. different things for different people. if someone is looking to try something that has the potential to work out well then i say give it a shot. this is how you learn if stuff works or not. i wouldnt suggest a heavy cyclist with years of gains run a light cycle and expect to grow and i wouldnt suggest the opposite to a new guy. your too busy trying to chop me down and your filling in the blanks with nonsense. Its different if years ago he was saying this shit and now he is offering the right advice. my advice in this thread was to use the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) haha Like I said, I don't know everything nor did I know everything when I first started. There were more contradictions that I didn't post because I was too lazy to post them. He mentions that just because AI's on cycle work for us, doesn't mean that they work for other people no i didnt and that there isn't enough long term studies on them. thats true Yet in one of his posts, he tells an OP that running an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the start of the cycle is what he should do which is exactly what I told the OP in this thread as did i and Joe tries to argue with that. Totally contradicts himself yet again. or maybe you just dont understand haha im going with that He also had a post about saying that at around week 6 of his short ester test cycle, that his gains pretty much stopped which is exactly what Millertime was talking about. I can't find that post that Joe D had anymore. He must have edited it. Lol. right... well for me the gains started around week 2 and continued well up to about week 6. after that it was slow. i used short or no ester for this.

^^^

 

[riprockwell]

^^^^^

Lol. Again anyone who reads that knows it is comical and you still don't make sense man. I assume you are pretty ripped because you get plenty of exercise beating around the bush and jumping to conclusions. Like I said, you advise Dbol only cycles. You contradict yourself over and over again. Everyone on here can see that. You still think running Tren Ace for 6 weeks is a great idea. I will let this thread die now. I have said my piece. You haven't come with anything different that I thought you would say. You said the difference is clearly there between an 8 week and a 12 week cycle?? Yet you tell another guy that he should recover just fine on his 10 week cycle. I thought your short 6 week cycles were safer and the way to go. Yet another contradiction. So you said that you grow from the first 2 weeks of a short cycle and all the way in to post cycle therapy (pct). Yet in one of your other posts, you say that at the 6 week mark you were not seeing anymore gains. I thought you gained all the way in to PCT? Joe, I was easy on you. I could have flamed you wayyyyy more than I did. You are a joke and I honestly wonder if your asshole gets jealous of all of the shit that comes out of your mouth. Like I said, anyone on here who promotes Dbol only cycles is a retard. Period. I am done with you. Thanks for the laughs though. It has been fun.

Edit, this is funny. You say this....

"you go completely wrong here also. when those who do it effectively blast 6 weeks they start gaining within the first couple weeks and continue to grow into post cycle therapy (pct). they lose little to nothing in their speedy recovery then when the next blast starts they start growing more."

Then you say this.........

right... well for me the gains started around week 2 and continued well up to about week 6. after that it was slow. i used short or no ester for this.

LOL. Again, a contradiction. Joe, these are all over your posts. I laugh how you say that these people lose little to nothing in their speedy recovery. Haha. I guess that means you actually know these guys blood test and show that they have recovered. I have known more guys to lose gains after a cycle than to keep them. Again, this would all make sense if I lived in Lala Land. Unfortunately Joe, I don't. But seriously, I am done now. Its just comical. And that would explain why pretty much nobody has liked any of your posts. Lol.

 

[joe d]

I can see your thinking with this totally. However, just remember Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) signals your LH which causes your testicals to produce testosterone. I think its better for recovery to have them cranking during your cycle. I mean, which car is easier to start??? The one you drive 2 days ago or one that has been sitting for 4 months?? Thats my thinking behind it. Basically I would rather keep them cranking even if they are barely cranking than have my balls atrophy and die and have to perform CPR on them to get them back in action. But like I said, I don't necessarily think my way is right. It just makes more sense to me. If a guy wants to blast it at the end, thats his choice and a lot do it that way. I just view Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) usage in a common sense approach and it has always worked for me. Besides when you blast Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the end, you have to blast higher amounts and we all know that can cause an increase in estrogen which isn't a good thing for the user.

that is the way i feel also but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) could be a hormone that you can become resistant to (like insulin) if that is the case then running it all along might not be the best plan. i dont think this is the case though.

 

[joe d]

Lol. Again anyone who reads that knows it is comical and you still don't make sense man. right I assume you are pretty ripped because you get plenty of exercise beating around the bush and jumping to conclusions. lol that is you. i am actually speaking from real experience and actual research Like I said, you advise Dbol only cycles. You contradict yourself over and over again. or you just bunch everything together as if all posts pertain to every situation again. Everyone on here can see that. You still think running Tren Ace for 6 weeks is a great idea. I will let this thread die now. I have said my piece. You haven't come with anything different that I thought you would say. You said the difference is clearly there between an 8 week and a 12 week cycle?? Yet you tell another guy that he should recover just fine on his 10 week cycle. how do these last 2 statements present a conflict? I thought your short 6 week cycles were safer and the way to go. they are safer. if you let your defences down you could see it too. and they are the way to go FOR ME Yet another contradiction. in your mind haha So you said that you grow from the first 2 weeks of a short cycle and all the way in to post cycle therapy (pct). Yet in one of your other posts, you say that at the 6 week mark you were not seeing anymore gains. nope i said that my gains started around 2 weeks in and went well up until about 6 weeks where they slowed and that i used short or no esters to achieve this. another of the many twists you throw in I thought you gained all the way in to PCT? yes, you are correst lolololJoe, I was easy on you. where you? im in soely for the entertainment factor at this point. arguing with you is a dead end because you twist everything and add in false statements as a methot of trying to look right. I could have flamed you wayyyyy more than I did. you did a terrible job. and the ignorance goes without impact. if i let guys like you get to me id be dead from another heart attack by now. You are a joke and I honestly wonder if your asshole gets jealous of all of the shit that comes out of your mouth. Like I said, anyone on here who promotes Dbol only cycles is a retard. Period. I am done with you. Thanks for the laughs though. It has been fun.it has been fun. hopefully one day you venture outside of taking the posts on a board as factual and do some real research.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[riprockwell]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Lol. This is my favorite part of your last post....

i used short or no esters to achieve this.

No esters = Dbol only cycles. LMAO. Hahaha

 

[Millertime]

Joe D I hope you figure it out for yourself. Your going against the grain on what has been proven. My suggestion would be to slow your roll just a bit and try to get along with people. Got some great guys and girls here on ology which makes it a good place to check out.

 

[Mad- scientist]

 

[joe d]

Lol. This is my favorite part of your last post....

i used short or no esters to achieve this.

No esters = Dbol only cycles. LMAO. Hahaha

your limited amount of knowledge and quick to attack personality would lead you to post more nonsense like this. do you know that you can obtain most hormones without an ester attached?

and of course i have ran dbol only. just like many others have with great success. you dont know about that though. just keep reading your stickies haha.

 

[Millertime]

your limited amount of knowledge and quick to attack personality would lead you to post more nonsense like this. do you know that you can obtain most hormones without an ester attached?

and of course i have ran dbol only. just like many others have with great success. you dont know about that though. just keep reading your stickies haha.

You need to show us whose run dbol only with great success. Oral only cycles have never been known to be very beneficial without adding test. If you want us to dismiss everything we've learned over the past 30 years your gonna have to show some sort of evidence. Without something you just stand out as talking out your ass and people here will not respect your views.

 

[joe d]

Joe D I hope you figure it out for yourself. Your going against the grain on what has been proven. My suggestion would be to slow your roll just a bit and try to get along with people. Got some great guys and girls here on ology which makes it a good place to check out.

try to get along? yes we should. we should keep out arguments civil and open our minds. this is how we learn. the getting it figured out has taken place for the better part of my last 15 years. im actually done with bbing and cycling now. you guys are so against anything aside from 1 set method here that you think im the one out of line haha. believe me im a friendly guy. i like getting along and sharing my real experience. i have a bit of it myself. i mod boards and have for years. i have competed myself and have helped others. i have done quite a bit of my own research and have had access to some professionals as my mother runs a large medical practice and has been a part of my research from day 1. when you say i go against the grain here... with all do respect and i do respect you all, the world is a lot bigger than the handful of members here. there are things that i am 100% sure of like a dbol only run for example that you all love to laugh at. i have researched the hell out of this compound and its use. i have experimented, made it very successful for myself, made suggestions to others and seen their success so when you laugh at this and tell everyone new oh no dont ever do this this guy is retarded and hurting people etc. it makes me even more want to prevent them from closing their minds like the small handful of you have here so they too can see that there is more to this stuff than the 1 single plan that gets pushed here. this is because i care about people and although i dont know everything i do happen to know quite a bit about these hormones and their uses from first cycles to the most advanced b&c.

in this thread all i have done was try to point out that this guy may not be a complete idiot with nothing to offer. his shorter cycle idea can be made good. there are areas of the world where the masses use serms only on cycle and do not have issues. i didnt say that you are all wrong and he is right. i didnt say any certain method was wrong or right. this place is like nazzi germany on cycle plans lol. what is so wrong with other ideas? especially ideas that are proven methods just like yours.

 

[joe d]

You need to show us whose run dbol only with great success. Oral only cycles have never been known to be very beneficial without adding test. If you want us to dismiss everything we've learned over the past 30 years your gonna have to show some sort of evidence. Without something you just stand out as talking out your ass and people here will not respect your views.

look for the peoples claims. its all we have. try it yourself? i did, it worked. you havent spend 30 years learning that dbol only was terrible because 30 years ago many many people where running very long effective healthy (in steroid cycle terms) dbol only cycles.

12 weeks of 20mg dbol ed split dose has worked great for people that dont need much. people have success with stretching out the dbol in the cycles with other compounds also. i cant make a movie of them and show it here. and i dont want to start linking other boards and start problems that way. the info is out there. search for it.

 

[joe d]

You need to show us whose run dbol only with great success. Oral only cycles have never been known to be very beneficial without adding test. If you want us to dismiss everything we've learned over the past 30 years your gonna have to show some sort of evidence. Without something you just stand out as talking out your ass and people here will not respect your views.

i forgot to add that most of the bad rep dbol gets is from people running a front load as a cycle. running 50mg of dbol ed for 4 weeks has people reporting bad readings on their bloods, lots of bloat, loss of appetite, low libedo, etc these are all symptoms of heavy use and bad estro control. they bloat to shit, eat like crap because they have no appetite, then lost the bloat when done. that only tells me that they did it all wrong. when people actually try less for longer with proper e control they do make good gains, they do not have the estro issues, and they can keep the gains just the same as they could from any other aas. thats another odd claim i never could understand why anyone would consider it true. why do oral aas magically produce gains that you cant keep. does it create temporary fake muscle? do they only give bloat with no muscle enhancing ability? think about it.

 

[Millertime]

I'm trying to be fair and give you a chance to speak your view. Let me ask you why would anyone chose d-bol without test? By taking dbol you are shutting down your natural production of test. So i can understand someone taking at least a low testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose of test combined with dbol. They would experience massive water gain which might make them perform better at the gym. Plus still feel good by adding test. Ok now if someone just does dbol with no test he still will experience the water gain but now would feel lethargic, have no libido, overall awful everyday from not having any test in their system. So again why would someone take an oral only without any test?

 

[kaname]

Until I see your sticky on these boards or a well written counter argument with whatever research backing it, I will continue to take the advice of the long time members here. It's a as simple as that. I've said it in the past if you disagree with the view points of this board then maybe it's time to move elsewhere. Which I wouldn't want you to leave but I am tired of hearing "have you tried it." If you're going to make a post that go against some of the stickies here, then you need to be prepared to offer up a better sticky with some solid view points beyond "it worked for me" or "have you tried what I'm telling you to do?"

The view points on this board that are wide spread to the point of being shared by the mods / vets / long time members (not saying all), have formulated from their years of research and experience. For the life of me I can't understand why you keep thinking you're the only one who has tried something, and everyone who disagrees with you hasn't. I don't need to try different methods of post cycle therapy (pct) to know that The Det Oak's post on it is solid and on point with documented research. The same with the other million threads on this topic.

If you disagree with a sticky here either re-write it or move on. I would never go to a forum and began telling the members there why they are wrong without having a decent amount of research backing me, beyond "I tried it and it worked for me." And this speaks to subjects that are seen in generally one way at a particular site / forum, not subjects that have plenty of back and forth.

^ I don't have time to make this post make sense as I'm at work.

 

[joe d]

I'm trying to be fair and give you a chance to speak your view. Let me ask you why would anyone chose d-bol over test? By taking dbol you are shutting down your natural production of test. So i can understand someone taking a low testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose of test combined with dbol. They would experience massive water gain which would make him perform better at the gym. Plus still feel good by adding test. Ok now if someone just does dbol with no test he still will experience the water gain but now would feel like shit everyday not having any test in their system. So why would someone take an oral only without any test?

well first the feel like shit part is wrong. dbol is a close derivative of test and it will typically make you feel the same as if you where on test at the right doses. to limit this massive water retention you would keep your estro down. but really the retention isnt that massive when you are taking just a couple 10mg doses per day.

for the reason. the gains would likely be similar to a light dose of test like the doses suggested to new guys. so for that aspect its the same. considering your water intake is high, your sodium intake isnt through the roof, and your not slamming booze throughout the day you shoulnt suffer any liver issues. maybe slight elevation but nothing close to dangerous. it is easier. no pinning. it is cheap. for anyone who may think that they are not reasons do you use an estered test rather than suspension? and if so why?

im not saying its better or worse im saying its an option that works. the simple point of shutting down your test production really doesnt mean anything. you do that when you take test and the test you are taking really isnt doing anything more for you than the dbol does.

 

[joe d]

Until I see your sticky on these boards or a well written counter argument with whatever research backing it, I will continue to take the advice of the long time members here. It's a as simple as that. I've said it in the past if you disagree with the view points of this board then maybe it's time to move elsewhere. Which I wouldn't want you to leave but I am tired of hearing "have you tried it." If you're going to make a post that go against some of the stickies here, then you need to be prepared to offer up a better sticky with some solid view points beyond "it worked for me" or "have you tried what I'm telling you to do?"

The view points on this board that are wide spread to the point of being shared by the mods / vets / long time members (not saying all), have formulated from their years of research and experience. For the life of me I can't understand why you keep thinking you're the only one who has tried something, and everyone who disagrees with you hasn't. I don't need to try different methods of post cycle therapy (pct) to know that The Det Oak's post on it is solid and on point with documented research. The same with the other million threads on this topic.

If you disagree with a sticky here either re-write it or move on. I would never go to a forum and began telling the members there why they are wrong without having a decent amount of research backing me, beyond "I tried it and it worked for me." And this speaks to subjects that are seen in generally one way at a particular site / forum, not subjects that have plenty of back and forth.

^ I don't have time to make this post make sense as I'm at work.

what more can you have than personal experience and first hand knowledge of others and there is no evidence of something being dangerous as several claimed (you cant prove something doesnt exist other than to say show me the evidence that shows it to be dangerous). in other words again i know of its success through myself and first hand through others. i have yet to see it go bad. when someone argues this i first ask have you done it to see what their experience was. it always seems to not get answered or the answer is no. so then i say what makes it such a bad idea. all i ever get is stores of people running front load type doses in short blasts or guys with no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and a half ass post cycle therapy (pct).

i dont want to rewrite your stickies or come off like a prick. im just sharing what i have learned and i wouldnt blow smoke up peoples asses. i also would hope to hell you wouldnt take my or anyone elses word on anything serious over the net.

 

[DreDay187]

what more can you have than personal experience and first hand knowledge of others and there is no evidence of something being dangerous as several claimed (you cant prove something doesnt exist other than to say show me the evidence that shows it to be dangerous). in other words again i know of its success through myself and first hand through others. i have yet to see it go bad. when someone argues this i first ask have you done it to see what their experience was. it always seems to not get answered or the answer is no. so then i say what makes it such a bad idea. all i ever get is stores of people running front load type doses in short blasts or guys with no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and a half ass post cycle therapy (pct).

i dont want to rewrite your stickies or come off like a prick. im just sharing what i have learned and i wouldnt blow smoke up peoples asses. i also would hope to hell you wouldnt take my or anyone elses word on anything serious over the net.

So which is it, do you want to be taken seriously or not?

 

[Millertime]

well first the feel like shit part is wrong. dbol is a close derivative of test and it will typically make you feel the same as if you where on test at the right doses. to limit this massive water retention you would keep your estro down. but really the retention isnt that massive when you are taking just a couple 10mg doses per day.

for the reason. the gains would likely be similar to a light dose of test like the doses suggested to new guys. so for that aspect its the same. considering your water intake is high, your sodium intake isnt through the roof, and your not slamming booze throughout the day you shoulnt suffer any liver issues. maybe slight elevation but nothing close to dangerous. it is easier. no pinning. it is cheap. for anyone who may think that they are not reasons do you use an estered test rather than suspension? and if so why?

im not saying its better or worse im saying its an option that works. the simple point of shutting down your test production really doesnt mean anything. you do that when you take test and the test you are taking really isnt doing anything more for you than the dbol does.

Ok to be fair I cannot fight this theory anymore because I personally have never done an oral only cycle. What I will strongly disagree with you about is the benefits of short cycles. This I have done and have experiences with. So with that said we agree to disagree. Right or wrong I do give you credit for not hiding after being called out by a few.

 

[kaname]

what more can you have than personal experience and first hand knowledge of others and there is no evidence of something being dangerous as several claimed (you cant prove something doesnt exist other than to say show me the evidence that shows it to be dangerous). in other words again i know of its success through myself and first hand through others. i have yet to see it go bad. when someone argues this i first ask have you done it to see what their experience was. it always seems to not get answered or the answer is no. so then i say what makes it such a bad idea. all i ever get is stores of people running front load type doses in short blasts or guys with no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and a half ass post cycle therapy (pct).

i dont want to rewrite your stickies or come off like a prick. im just sharing what i have learned and i wouldnt blow smoke up peoples asses. i also would hope to hell you wouldnt take my or anyone elses word on anything serious over the net.

Lets put it this way. If I'm new I will typically look to the sticky threads for information as those threads are stickies for a reason. If you post something that is the complete opposite of the sticky then that now confuses me. You then need to be prepared with more evidence than just "it worked for me." You need to show bloods (you state orals only are fine in low doses, well lets see the bloods that show all other numbers are fine). any documented research....something...anything to help prove your claims.

You stated "what more can you have?" Do you really think all of those stickies are simply guys stating what worked for them, with nothing else behind their reasoning / methods? I'm not hear to tell you what research they did, as I can't speak for them, but I do know the higher ups here aren't simply turning threads / post / articles into stickies just because someone says something worked for them without any solid reasoning behind it.

I for one use to eat fast food on a regular basis. When I finished my workout I would go over to Whataburger or Taco Bell and get everyone left in the gym their food orders. We rotated food runs etc. My checkups at the doc were fine, my body fat was low, cholesterol levels / bp all fine. Doc always gave me a clean bill of health. That being so I wouldn't then go to a health forum and start giving out advice on why people can eat like I did because it worked for me. Especially when that info goes against the core of the forum. If I did then I would be prepared with more than it worked for me.

We tell the new guys to read the stickies all the time. They then come into a thread like this and become more and more confused. At the very least as I told you before, you then need to provide both view points to give a clear picture to them as not to confuse them when that info you're giving goes against the core of the forum.

 

[joe d]

So which is it, do you want to be taken seriously or not?

taking someones opinions as facts and running with them without further research would be a huge mistake. it may work out okay most of the time at best, but once in a while your going to get screwed. with something as serious as hormones i would hope one would get the opinions and research for themselves. the problem with copying and pasting research articles is that there are always conflicting research studies left out. doing thorough research is going to stretch far beyond a bb forum (thats not to disrespect any members) and take up a lot more time than reading some stickies. then eventually your going to wind up having to test yourself since we are all different.

sharing my experience with myself and others is nothing more than a reason to investigate a potential new method to you if your interested in learning about it. if you dont care or want to close it off fine. that doesnt hurt me none. but when you say prove it. show me your bloods. show me these people. the answer is no. im just a guy on the net like all of you. if you want proof start some real research with an open mind and enough time to really understand what you are reading. then if you feel its worth a trial your ready to go.

all of this wasnt directed at the post i quoted by the way. i started there then just went with it all in a hurry haha.