Super High TRT Dose and Nearly ZERO Results

[Benchingbacktheclock]

So after several years of dragging my feet I finally jumped into the deep end. After tons of research in this site (and others) and repeated discussions with my primary care physician, who had been encouraging me for years, I went to a wellness clinic and received a script for 200mg of Test Cyp 1X week which I was instructed to perform sub-q.

First a little back story. I'm 45 years old, high pressure job (blablabla), 6'6" and 260lbs, always been fit, works out with weights 3-4 times week consistently, no real commitment to cardio (do not enjoy it), diet bounces from back and forth from perfect to bad, but overall far better than average.

What pushed me down the path will probably sound familiar: low energy, stalled out workouts, brain fog, dulled ambition, stubborn belly fat, but worst of all, poor libido. Over the last several years I consistently popped low 200's on my bloods through my Dr. I tried to "fix it" through hard workouts, sleep, ZMA, diet, managing my stress, etc. I managed to get it up to low 400's (see below), but I never received relief from my symptoms.

My life is great. Successful career, awesome family, super sexy wife; but I wanted more and better. The research is overwhelming, the health benefits are nearly indisputable; so once I decided to pull the trigger I assumed not just a positive outcome, but an immediately positive outcome.

Here is problem, even after the relative high TRT protocol, my numbers have barely budged and my symptoms have not changed in any tangible fashion.

Initial Bloodwork - 19 Oct 2016
Estradiol - 14.1 (reference interval 25.8-60.7)
Human Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin - 56 (10-80)
Test - 439 (348-1197)
Free Test - 6.36 (4.7-24.4)
DHEA - 208 (44-331)
LH - 4.1 (1.7-8.6)
DHT - 52 (30-85)

3rd AM after 3rd dose

First Followup Bloodwork - 30 Dec 2016
Estradiol - 28.2 (reference interval 25.8-60.7)
Human Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin - 40 (10-80)
Test - 559 (348-1197)
Free Test - 10.64 (4.7-24.4)

The follow up blood work was not as comprehensive as the first. In fact, I would appreciate some guidance from the board on what blood work I should insist on getting fro tracking purposes every time.

So I told the Dr today that this in a ton of work and ton of test for no results. So her response was to change my protocol from 200mg 1x weekly to 140mg 2x weekly (every 3.5 days). So I come to you guys for advice. Any thoughts?

The Dr wants me to take more bloods on the 3rd AM after the 3rd week of dosing on the new protocol and then come in for a review. The Dr anticipates that this new protocol will work, but that I likely will need an AI included, but that will be determined upon review of the next bloods.

I'm a little rattled right now. I do not want to be one of the rare TRT failures. I want to be a success story like so many others on this site. I want to chase my hot wife around the house like old times, I want to make gains in the gym, I want to lose an inch or two around my waist, I want everything that TRT usually provides.

I have been super impressed with forum participants on this site. Equal parts brotherhood and brilliance, it's uncanny the collective information and knowledge available on this site. I hope someone sees this post and provides some timely insight and guidance. Thanks a ton for taking the time make it through this post.

 

[SugarMouth]

Break that does into 100mg x2 week instead of one 200mg.

I'd look at your levels 8 weeks after first injection. Bloodwork the day you are supposed to inject prior to injection.

 

[tbonexl]

If I understand correctly, you got bloodwork 3 weeks after you started. Your test levels increased but due to the ester being long with cyp, you need about 3 more weeks to reach full saturation. The test cyp isn't up to full levels yet in just 3 weeks time. I would stay with 200mgs per week and test again in 3 weeks or 6 weeks after you started. I might have read all that wrong though...

 

[Benchingbacktheclock]

If I understand correctly, you got bloodwork 3 weeks after you started. Your test levels increased but due to the ester being long with cyp, you need about 3 more weeks to reach full saturation. The test cyp isn't up to full levels yet in just 3 weeks time. I would stay with 200mgs per week and test again in 3 weeks or 6 weeks after you started. I might have read all that wrong though...

Let me clarify. I wrote way too much in the first post.

So yes, I took 3 doses and then did blood in the AM 3 days after the 3rd dose. My Dr was so unimpressed by my numbers that she increased me from 200mg 1X weekly to 140mg 2X weekly for 280mg total (Sub-Q). I was instructed to complete 3 weeks of this new plan, then do AM blood 3 days after that 3rd dose.

Am I going down a rabbit hole? Is my Dr even more impatient than I am? Should I slow down and let this deal develop? I assumed with an 8 day half-life that I was close to fully dosed after the 3rd dose.

I certainly invite and appreciate all input and advice. Thanks a ton.

 

[IMT staff]

Way too early to be testing or knowing if you have "zero results"

6 weeks isn't nearly long enough.

Testing before 10 weeks is a waste of time and money.

 

[Roush]

Be patient . 200mg of test cyp a week is far from a supra-physiological dose of test especially for a guy thats 6'6" and 260 pounds and did not have that low of test levels to begin with . so its going to take awhile to saturate and get up to that optimal 1000 range .
I personally felt results fairly quick, but I went from having natty test of only 160 ngdl , so even getting to 500 was a huge improvement.

 

[Slhardee]

Agreed, you need at least ten weeks to get total saturation. I would split the doses into 2 doses every 3.5 days as stated above. In addition that is not a high dose for somebody thats 6 foot six and 260 pounds. The higher dose the doctor recommended may actually help you achieve your goal. However, you need to watch Your E2. Your initial E2 test results are actually low (which could explain some of your symptoms).

You need to do the ultra sensitive test and watch your E2 after you get set on your new protocol.

 

[tx045]

With having a tt number of 439 you might not notice certain things that trt will provide as much as a person who is really hypogonadal. It will take awhile for the cyp to saturate and being your size I'd bet you're going to see more gradual results than most. Also don't expect it to be some wonder drug under your circumstances. Give it time. I don't remember any mention of HCG but that's another tool that could help

 

[BigSwolenPussy]

Sounds like you need a new doc.

 

[Benchingbacktheclock]

I appreciate greatly all the feedback. Let me give some quick updated labs. So when these labs were taken I had completed 3 weeks of 140mg TWICE weekly (that is on the heals of doing 5 weeks of 200mg ONCE weekly).

Testosterone (ng/dL) - 689 - reference interval 348-1197
Free Test (ng/dL) - 12.03 - reference interval 4.7-24.4
Human sex hormone-binding globulin (nmol/L) - 48 - reference interval 10-80
Estradiol (pg/mL) - 39.9 - reference interval 25.8-60.7

So from a numbers standpoint I continue to be somewhat discouraged. I am 8 weeks in on this lab with a fairly high dose of TRT and really it has driven my Estradiol up proportionately much more than my test.

Doc wants me add in Anastrozole .5 once per week immediately after one of my doses. I need some feedback on that. Should I split that in two and take it 24 hours post test? I am dosing currently Mon at 7pm and Fri at 7am? Is that the right timing?

So my Dr is not the best, and it has been suggested that I go elsewhere. However, the positive with the current Dr is they are super flexible. You name it, they will sign off on it. AI, HCG, high TRT dose, it doesn't matter. They will run me up to 1200 if I wanted to go there.

On a side note. I feel pretty decent. Strength is going up. Lean mass is being added. I don't feel 18. No morning wood. And unfortunately, I am not chasing the wife around the house.

As always, thanks a ton for any and all feedback and advice.

 

[AverageMan]

Your M,F pinning is perfect. Keep that schedule. For the AI, break the dose in 1/2 and take 2x a week at the same time you pin. Adex has a half life of around 48 hrs, thus the need to take 2x a week. This is exactly my TRT protocal.

 

[tx045]

Hcg?

 

[Benchingbacktheclock]

I have tried HCG, nor has it been suggested by the Dr so far. We discussed it. They are open to it, but said that in their practice nearly all of their clients are able to accomplish positive results without it.

 

[Benchingbacktheclock]

Meant I have NOT tried HCG so far.

 

[tbonexl]

You would be better to pin monday morning and thursday evening. That puts you at 3.5 days between pins.

 

[Benchingbacktheclock]

You would be better to pin monday morning and thursday evening. That puts you at 3.5 days between pins.

I currently pin Mon 7pm and Fri 7am. That's 3.5 days, so I good there.

 

[Graeme]

I'm not on TRT, nor am I a doctor, but one thing that I'd like to point out is that your free testosterone levels were terrible before you started.

There's a certain amount of evidence that FT levels below 6.5 ng/dL indicate hypogonadism, and being below that level will have worse symptoms than having a low TT. Bumping yours from about 6.4 ng/dL to 12 ng/dL should have improved things somewhat.

There's a correlation between depression and low free testosterone, and it's got similar symptoms to hypogonadism. It's possible that both are an issue, which is why TRT isn't improving all your symptoms.

Lastly, I've heard that high levels of SHBG can increase the TT measurement, so you might have been lower than your initial bloodwork suggested. As TRT drives this down, it might be making your numbers look worse than they actually are.

 

[3J]

also youre running sub q.. run im..

sub q absorbes at a lower rate and may be the reason why your levels are a bit too low (even for 3 weeks imo)

 

[appleton111]

did you find a better doc?

 

[Graeme]

I'm not on TRT...

OK, that's just changed, a local doctor put me on today.

I'll post a new thread in the next few days, but I'm pretty close to Benchingbacktheclock in age, height, and hormone levels. (FSH and LH are quite a bit higher.) But it'll be interesting to compare notes.