Supplements vs. Prescription Meds

DrJMW

Community Veteran, Fitness Consultant
The only reason the supplement industry is booming is because of the lack of accessibility to performance-enhancing meds. The reasons for reduced accessibility: prescription only; lack of educated docs to prescribe; docs focusing on diseases rather than prevention; lack of research accepted by the USA medical establishment (docs, pharmaceutical companies, government). Interestingly, price is in favor of the meds. Pound for pound, Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is much cheaper than pro-hormones. I will grant the fact that there are some supplements that actually work, but there is probably a prescription med that does the same thing at lower cost.

Now, we have people on the boards that either own or represent interests in companies that produce supplements. It is obvious that the reasons they post at all is to educate the public and encourage the purchase of their products. Then, you have the vets/mods that bring experience to the table. Because of a lack of "bonafide" research, we need to examine the vets/mod's anecdotal evidence (experience). Many have tried the supplements and many have tried meds. It is their writings that also educate us and help us choose our paths. Lastly, you have people like myself with experience and basic medical science knowledge (biochemistry, physiology, pharmacology, pathology). All of us try to put medical science together with anecdotal evidence to try to advise the BB'er on how to proceed with enhancement programs safely and efficiently.

One thing that I have noticed over the years is a lack of agreement on many issues. This brings me to the all-important variables--lack of basic medical knowledge and genetics. The 'ol "what works for me should work for you" isn't always true because of variable genetics. We, as a group, try to establish safe and efficient guidelines for all (goal setting; blood testing; cycle planning; obtaining legitimate, high quality meds; execution and tweaking of the cycles). Because of genetic variables, tweaking must be done. But, we must always remember certain medical facts (like all Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) suppresses the HPTA; testosterone is converted to estrogen; nandrolones can elevate prolactin levels; etc.) We must always keep these facts in mind, for the bottom line is our health and safety.
 
Here is my 2 minute contribution:
ALA better than metformin
AAS better than prohormones
AI's better than chrysin
Serms better than phytoestrogens
creatine still rules, so does G-plenish from Omega.
Clen better than EC...for the short run
Clen better than EC for prostate
EC better than clen for longer diet periods

Bottom line: It aint that clear cut
 
I want take this opportunity to thank Mr N for saying ALA rather than Glucorell R or R-ALA. Next time you buy lunch.

I will agree with AS and PH's.
Glucorell R and Metaformin aren't even close, Glucorell R is better.

But I think that the cost of med and the supplement need to be examined a little closer than the price of the material. You have to pay a physician to GET the med and the ones we want they won't give you. With supps you can just go online and have your supp delivered. Or go pick it up. You don't need an appointment that you may have to take off work for to get a supp. You don't have an underwriter looking at your medical records when you want to buy health or life insurance who writes your agent to ask you why you were taking _______ if you buy a supp.

But the reason the supplement industry is booming is that the majority of the supplement companies know that if they buy 10 pages in Muscle and Fiction and Flex every month they can sell $3million/month worth of absolute crap through a network of 5000 "nutritional outlets".

There are only a handful of companies that do what we (AF and MP) do and that is face the public we sell to every day and field questions we have to answer in plain site of anyone reading a thread.
Can you imagine the owners of these companies selling junk to teenagers actually sitting on a forum and explaining why no one to date has lost any fat from cutting gel?

But I'll give up the money to sleep at night.
 
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Good post, but I'd like to broaden the perspective a bit , if I may.

Anyone who has read my book knows that I dismiss about 90% of the supplements currently on the market. But to say that "meds work better than a supp" is a little too much of a blanket statement.

One area where it is totally true is with pro-hormones. I've been speaking out against them from day one. But whatever you may think of their effectiveness, they also have side effects, as do all drugs. Many supplements don't have side effects and have several other health benefits, and I think that makes them a much wiser choice.

For example;

s-AME lowers prolactin. But it doesn't lower it as much as Bromocriptine. But Bromo is potetially dangerous whereas s_AME also improves mood, heart health and joint mobility. So how can anyone say the drug is better than the supp?
Is there a drug better than Vitamin C? Or protein? Inositol reduces anxiety, but not to the degree Valium will. But Valium is highly addictive. The only side effect to Inositol is that you might lose a little more fat. Which is better? Depends on your needs.

Part of this philosophy is what made me design supplements that I believe in and I would use myself. It's also why I stopped writing for T-Mag. I couldn't lie to people like that.

No, crysin isn't as guarenteed as arimidex. And Unleashed isn't quite as potent as Viagra (although it's damn close and doesn't give you the wicked headaches) And ZIP! ain't T3. But they can help and they aren't detremental and THAT, should be the way any health conceous individual uses any supplement that gives a "drug -like" effect. As a SUPPLEMENT. Not a replacement.
 
I intend to sell to the broader market one day and I will never sell out for quality or prophet, I intend to usher in a new paradigm in one aspect of the industry

pretty ambitous for a small fry Greek Kid like me.......:)

but it will be done

and I will sleep very well at night thanks
 
Lol, I didn't want to be viewed as partial to ulter's products. Moreover, I want to take this moment to state that I do not have and never have had an affiliation with MP products and that I do not profit by promoting same.
I feel, that by now, countless studies and numerous discussions make it self evident that ALA means R-ALA..anything less is just not civilized; and the best quality R-ALA product around is Glucorell, hands down;
 
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OMEGA said:
I intend to sell to the broader market one day and I will never sell out for quality or prophet, I intend to usher in a new paradigm in one aspect of the industry

pretty ambitous for a small fry Greek Kid like me.......:)

but it will be done

and I will sleep very well at night thanks

I hope you will never sell out a prophet.....lol, I know... you meant profit....lol
 
Nelson Montana said:
s-AME lowers prolactin. But it doesn't lower it as much as Bromocriptine. But Bromo is potetially dangerous whereas s_AME also improves mood, heart health and joint mobility. So how can anyone say the drug is better than the supp?

One of my favorite Supps :D

My mood swings and occasional mild bouts of depressive behavior since I began cycling years ago have done a 180 since I began the sam-E. I haven't noticed any joint benefits as claimed but knowing that it's also heart healthy (homocysteine) and a potent liver aid, it makes it even more appealing for me. Great stuff :)
 
Nelson Montana said:
Good post, but I'd like to broaden the perspective a bit , if I may.

Anyone who has read my book knows that I dismiss about 90% of the supplements currently on the market. But to say that "meds work better than a supp" is a little too much of a blanket statement.

One area where it is totally true is with pro-hormones. I've been speaking out against them from day one. But whatever you may think of their effectiveness, they also have side effects, as do all drugs. Many supplements don't have side effects and have several other health benefits, and I think that makes them a much wiser choice.

For example;

s-AME lowers prolactin. But it doesn't lower it as much as Bromocriptine. But Bromo is potetially dangerous whereas s_AME also improves mood, heart health and joint mobility. So how can anyone say the drug is better than the supp?

YOU FAILED TO MENTION THE SUPERIORITY OF DOSTINEX. SO, THE DRUG IS BETTER. IT IS AVAILABLE. COST MAY BE AN ISSUE. ONE MONTH SUPPLY OF DOSTINEX COSTS $151.28. ALSO, WE KNOW THAT WINSTROL WILL BLOCK PROGESTERONE AND LOWER PROALCTIN LEVELS ALSO. ONE MONTH SUPPLY OF WINSTROL (ENOUGH TO LOWER PROLACTIN) COSTS $30.00.

Is there a drug better than Vitamin C? Or protein?

THIS IS RIDICULOUS. VITAMIN C AND PROTEIN ARE NOT DRUGS BY ANY DEFINITION, SO OYU CANNOT COMPARE THEM TO MEDICATIONS.

Inositol reduces anxiety, but not to the degree Valium will. But Valium is highly addictive. The only side effect to Inositol is that you might lose a little more fat. Which is better? Depends on your needs.

SO DOES WARM MILK. SO DO SSRI'S. VALIUM IS ONLY ADDICTIVE IF YOU USE IT ALL THE TIME. THERE ARE A GREAT NUMBER OF ALTERNATIVES TO TREATING ANXIETY AND MANY DO NOT REQUIRE ADDICTIVE SUBSTANCES. CHRONIC ANXIETY IS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE TREATED AND CURED, NOT FOOLED WITH BY SELF-MEDICATING WITH VALIUM.

Part of this philosophy is what made me design supplements that I believe in and I would use myself. It's also why I stopped writing for T-Mag. I couldn't lie to people like that.

MY ONLY PROBLEM WITH THE SUPPLEMENT INDUSTRY IS THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO STAND UP TO THE SAME SCRUTINY AS FOOD AND DRUGS. IF IT DID, THEN MOST OF THE SUPPS WOULD BE DISCONTINUED. WE WOULD BE BACK TO USING MULTIVITAMINS, MULTIMINERALS, PROTEIN SUPPLEMENTS AND WHATEVER SUPPS THAT NELSON AND ULTER CAN PROVE WORK. I DO HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR BOTH NELSON'S AND ULTER'S WORK AS FAR AS THE SUPPS ARE CONCERNED.

No, crysin isn't as guarenteed as arimidex. And Unleashed isn't quite as potent as Viagra (although it's damn close and doesn't give you the wicked headaches) And ZIP! ain't T3. But they can help and they aren't detremental and THAT, should be the way any health conceous individual uses any supplement that gives a "drug -like" effect. As a SUPPLEMENT. Not a replacement.

AS LONG AS SUPPS CAN DO WHAT IS PROMISED WITHOUT ILL SIDE EFFECTS, THEN I AM ALL FOR THEM. THIS WOULD ELIMINATE FINDING A PROGESSIVE DOC, PAYING HIS FEE, THEN PAYING FOR THE MEDCIATION. UNFORTUNATELY, WE STILL NEED A LARGE NUMBER OF MEDS FOR CHEMICAL ENHANCEMENT AND THEY ARE AVAILABLE.
 
Drveejay11 said:
One of my favorite Supps :D

My mood swings and occasional mild bouts of depressive behavior since I began cycling years ago have done a 180 since I began the sam-E. I haven't noticed any joint benefits as claimed but knowing that it's also heart healthy (homocysteine) and a potent liver aid, it makes it even more appealing for me. Great stuff :)

Mood swings:confused:
been to the coversation board lately.....bwahahhahahahaha:D

god bless
Max
 
DrJMW said:
AS LONG AS SUPPS CAN DO WHAT IS PROMISED WITHOUT ILL SIDE EFFECTS, THEN I AM ALL FOR THEM. THIS WOULD ELIMINATE FINDING A PROGESSIVE DOC, PAYING HIS FEE, THEN PAYING FOR THE MEDCIATION. UNFORTUNATELY, WE STILL NEED A LARGE NUMBER OF MEDS FOR CHEMICAL ENHANCEMENT AND THEY ARE AVAILABLE.

We seem to be making the same argument from different sides of the fence. You say it's ridiculous to compare Vitamins to drugs because vitmains AREN'T drugs...well, isn't that what we're doing? Comparing supps to drugs? My point is, sometimes there is no comparison.

I agree with everything you're sayig but again, saying that dosinex is better than s-AME is unfair. Dosinex has side effects, sAME does not. Just because Dos is more powerful at one thing does not make it BETTER.

Actually, I'm sure you agree with this. I'm just stating it for edification purposes.

Same goes for Winstrol. You can't stay on Winstrol forever, but you can stay on supps forever. Good ones at least. You couldn't stay on pro-hormones none stop, because they are essentially shitty drugs, so in that case, it's dumb to use them instead of a more effective drug. But healthful supps work in conjunction with drugs and they work by themselves (albiet to a more limited degree) when not using drugs.

So I guess my point is, there shouldn't be a stight up comparrison as to which is BETTER. I manitain, it depends on your needs. I believe both can, and should be a part of every serious bodybuilders lifestyle.

I also believe at times there is no much emphasis/dependance on drugs. I may be old fashioned but I still think bodybuilding should be a heathful lifestyle. I just saw Reg Park on TV. The guy is 75 and looks phenominal! Could pass for 50. Jim Haislop is 60 and looks like he could out lift 90% of the guys on this board. Dave Draper is 60 and looks amazing. Larry Scott, same thing. This is the magic of bodybuilding and CONSERVATIVE drug use. Compare that to Flex Wheeler who ,even with the worlds greatest genetics, is falling apart at age 40.
I know it's toughfor a 25 year old guy to consider, but it's closer than you think. You want to pay the price to look good on the beach this year? Or do you still want to be attracting the young babes long after your friends are fat and bald and have no dick?

Think about it.
 
Mr. Nobody said:
I hope you will never sell out a prophet.....lol, I know... you meant profit....lol

shit:(

maybe I should start with spelling class and work from there :)

lol
 
yes :)

from the new company I have formed :)

I need to say that I could never have done it or any of the other things that will be done without the help of EVERYONE I have been blessed to know

there are individuals form everyboard that have helped me

the whole process on what will come humbles me daily

I feel as if I deserve NON of it............


thank GOD for it all, what may happen

my only hope is to give back and help out family
 
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