Testicular Athropy (how to prevent)

[one way step]

Right now I'm solely on testosterone cypionate, 200mg-250mg every two weeks. I have tried routines with HCG and anastrozole in the past but those seem to worsen my sex drive and mood rather than help it. Last I was on HCG it killed my sex drive, couldn't even get it up with cialis. HCG did seem to help greatly with energy when I take 250mg test.

Being on just test now, I'm experiencing some testicular atrophy. I would say they look like 35-40% smaller and they never hang low, they always look like it's cold outside.

Is there anything else I can do to prevent or reverse this? I'm reluctant to add HCG because of its unpredictability with my sex drive.

 

[Megatron28]

hCG at 250iu twice a week will help reduce testicular atrophy. How much were you taking? And how high was your estradiol getting?

You need to fix your protocol. Injecting once every two weeks puts you on a huge hormonal roller coaster ride. TT and E2 will be all over the place.

 

[Megatron28]

Give this a read.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

 

[one way step]

I have dosed test at more frequent injection intervals (weekly, 2x per week). For whatever reason, I feel the best when injecting every two weeks.

This may sound crazy, but my original hcg dose was 2500iu three times per week with test. This was given to me by my moron endo. I found that taking one 2500iu shot with 250mg test had me feeling pretty good but the sex drive was unpredictable.

After reading online, I went down to 250iu hcg 2x per week and then 500iu 2x per week after a break from Hcg. Neither seemed to help too much and in fact worsened my sex drive.

 

[Megatron28]

What was your E2 coming in at when you were having difficulties?

 

[one way step]

E2 was 37 before I added HCG and adex again. I've been back off it for about 6 weeks and got BW last week. Hoping to get my results tomorrow.

The main problem I am having is when I add HCG. It seems to be too unpredictable in how I feel. It used to give me some good energy when I took 2500iu once per week but every week was different. One week I would feel good and the next I would feel lazy and have no sex drive.

When I added 250iu (2x per week) and 500iu (2x per week) they seemed to just kill my sex drive and provide no assistance. Adding adex (either .25-1mg per week) didn't help.

Would taking like 100iu on the day of my test injection do enough to preserve testicle size without fucking up the results of the test cyp? Also is there an optimal time to take hcg (same day of shot, day after?)

 

[Megatron28]

Generally the best thing to do with hCG is take it twice a week due to a biphasic testicular response

Self-priming effect of luteinizing hormone-human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) upon the biphasic testicular response to exogenous hCG. I. Serum test... - PubMed - NCBI

If you take too much hCG you can experience Intratesticular aromatization which cannot be controlled with an AI. Sorry -- I don't have that study at my finger tips but you can look for it if you are curious.

You need to find the sweet spot for test injections and hCG. I would recommend 250iu twice a week and pinning test at least once a week. Going longer than seven days with test cyp is not desirable due to the half life. You can pin the hCG on the day you pin test and 3.5 days later again. Some guys like to pin hCG on the day before they pin test and 3.5 days later as well. Try it out and see what works for you.

I would really encourage you to try going back to weekly test injections along with the hCG. This will even out your hormone levels which should help your libido. Give it a month and then get blood work.

And just to make sure, can you describe your low libido symptoms? I ask because some guys use the word libido incorrectly. Just want to make sure.

 

[one way step]

My low libido consists of little interest in sex, not being horny, no morning wood, and inability to get adequate erections.

Is it possible that HCG will no longer work for me due to being on such high doses of it? I was on HCG mono for a year or so (2006-2007) and then have been incorporating it into TRT in various stages since the beginning of 2012.

In the past I have done the following routines; 100mg test per week with 250iu HCG 2x per week, 150mg test per week with 250iu HCG 2x per week, 200mg test per week with 250iu HCG 2x per week, 250mg test per week with 2500iu HCG 2x per week, 200mg test with 500iu HCG 2x per week, 250mg test with 500iu HCG 3x per week. None really restored my sex drive well, if at all.

Using 200mg test every two weeks brings my sex drive to acceptable levels compared to all of these doses. In odd fashion, using 100mg test per week or 50mg test twice per week leaves me feeling fatigued and without energy, while 200mg test every two weeks has me feeling much better.

 

[Megatron28]

It is possible the high doses of HCG desensitized your leydig cells.

So a some of your symptoms are not libido related. They are ED. The lack of morning wood and inadequate erections are often an Estradiol problem. Could be that your E2 is too high or too low. The truth is that injecting 200mg once every 14 days probably gives you high E2 in the beginning and low E2 towards the end. Or if you are using an AI, it may be normal in the beginning and too low at the end.

Do you feel the same for the entire two weeks or do you feel better during certain times?

 

[one way step]

I feel better in the second week. Better sex drive, lot of random erections, better libido, morning wood at times but not all the time

 

[Megatron28]

I really think you are having swings in your Estradiol. You should check your estradiol at your peak and trough. And get on 5mg of Cialis every day (unless you have low blood pressure).

 

[halfwit]

I really think you are having swings in your Estradiol. You should check your estradiol at your peak and trough. And get on 5mg of Cialis every day (unless you have low blood pressure).

Seconded. I'm thinking that you're really sensitive to those E2 fluctuations, which lag behind the testosterone peaks and troughs.

 

[Alpin]

HCG killed my sex drive too the longer I was on without a.i.
That bloody Estro just keeps going up.
took about 6 weeks till I felt like complete shit with HCG and no a.i., feel tired all the time, water retention. ..
mind u I was not on real high doses and T is being injected E3D. So aromatization could be much worse on E7D or greater shots.

 

[one way step]

So on Tuesday I took 200mg test. Wasn't really doing a whole lot in terms of my sex drive/libido plus was still causing atrophy. I took 500iu HCG on Thursday and that made a noticable difference in reducing the atrophy but still didn't do a whole lot to improve my sex drive.

I've been dealing with this crap for years now and am basically at the conclusion that I can't achieve a permanent feeling of a good sex drive and overall general well-being. When I keep TRT doses low enough it doesn't screw up E2 enough to prevent Cialis or Viagra to work.

I would love to have morning wood and get erections that lasted longer and were stronger, but I don't think I'll ever be able to find that at this point.

As I mentioned above when I take 200mg TEST it usually lasts for close to two weeks, with improved sex drive in the second week. Logically, one would say take 100mg per week, but when I do that I feel worse and don't have any energy or sex drive. Who knows why?

At this point I'm just considering doing 200mg-250mg TEST and 500iu HCG every two weeks. It'll be good enough. I know all will say that this is improper, but honestly nothing else works for me.

 

[TRTnooby]

I take 400IU of HCG 2x a week. Seems to be the sweet spot for me, my balls are all the way back to as big as they were pre TRT but they are pretty close. Way, way better than with out HCG.

 

[3J]

Generally the best thing to do with hCG is take it twice a week due to a biphasic testicular response

Self-priming effect of luteinizing hormone-human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) upon the biphasic testicular response to exogenous hCG. I. Serum test... - PubMed - NCBI

If you take too much hCG you can experience Intratesticular aromatization which cannot be controlled with an AI. Sorry -- I don't have that study at my finger tips but you can look for it if you are curious.

You need to find the sweet spot for test injections and hCG. I would recommend 250iu twice a week and pinning test at least once a week. Going longer than seven days with test cyp is not desirable due to the half life. You can pin the hCG on the day you pin test and 3.5 days later again. Some guys like to pin hCG on the day before they pin test and 3.5 days later as well. Try it out and see what works for you.

I would really encourage you to try going back to weekly test injections along with the hCG. This will even out your hormone levels which should help your libido. Give it a month and then get blood work.

And just to make sure, can you describe your low libido symptoms? I ask because some guys use the word libido incorrectly. Just want to make sure.

this explains why my nuts are so damn small right now... ive only been doing 250 iu once a week myself..

 

[halfwit]

this explains why my nuts are so damn small right now... ive only been doing 250 iu once a week myself..

Lol, I have a feeling that I should be doing slightly more than 500iu myself per week - but I don't mind the smaller target that my lap-diving daughter now misses with more frequency.

 

[one way step]

So my sex drive was pretty weak today, so I took some Cialis which did not really seem to improve the situation too much. I wonder if the HCG is really screwing up my e2. Took 500iu on Thursday evening.

 

[halfwit]

So my sex drive was pretty weak today, so I took some Cialis which did not really seem to improve the situation too much. I wonder if the HCG is really screwing up my e2. Took 500iu on Thursday evening.

Cialis only helps with getting and maintaining erections, it does nothing for libido. Estradiol is the chief culprit there.

 

[Megatron28]

Lol, I have a feeling that I should be doing slightly more than 500iu myself per week - but I don't mind the smaller target that my lap-diving daughter now misses with more frequency.

I am taking 500iu twice a week.