Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) on Test E

[Artyi]

TRT on Test E

I'm new here, so I will start with a short story.

First of all, I'm from Lithuania (Europe) and we don't have a good insurance which covers everything, specially TRT. It takes years to find our your problem and etc. I went this route and they told me that I have hyponogadism.

In 2010 while I was not taking any anabolics, cremes and etc. I felt really bad, low motivation, libido, no interest in sex, bad mood and I was 25.

My results were:
Test Serum - 210 ng/dl

After few shots of Sustanon 250ml every 3 weeks. We did another tests:
Test Serum - 117 ng/dl [300-1000 ng/dl]
LH - 2.3 [2-14 mIU/ml]
FSH - 1.2 [1-12 mIU/ml]

After that they put me on Sustanon for 6 months with the injection every 4 weeks. That was terrible. Roller coaster of the mood and etc.

Again we did some tests:
Test Serum - 173 ng/dl
LH - 2.1 mIU/ml
FSH - 0.9 mIU/ml

So, I went to clinics and had lots of visits, tests, even tested genetics over the year. Made my own researches. After this whole year in the end of December of 2011, they diagnosed me hypogonadism. Gave me a prescription for Nebido every 3 months. (I still have it in my cabine).

I made my own researches on Test Enanthate and decided to try this one, because it even cost me less to buy on my own, then prescribed Nebido from the clinics.

I injected Test E 250ml/week, on early monday morning.
Workout 4 times a week.
Diet is +-3000kcal. I'm 5"10' and 165 p.

I had some issues:
After 3 injections my nipples were itchy for 2-3 days, but only once, after that no complains.
After 12th injection I can't get asleep for first two nights.

Everything else is perfect, I don't feel any mood changes, I feel a sex drive, I don't see that my testicles would shrink and etc.

So I made tests on my own after 96 hours of my injection (on friday morning). They are:
Test Serum - 750ng/dl
LH - 0.1 mIU/ml
FSH - 0.1 mIU/ml
E2 - lower than 73.4 pmol/l
DHEAS - 5.65 nmol/l [5.6-27.8]
PSA - 1.21ng/ml
CHOL - 3.92 nmol/l

From the tests and researches I made everything seems ok. Test result is kinda high, but doesn't go off limits with such dose. E2 is low, so now female hormones: water retention or Gyno is dangerous right now, PSA ok, so no risk of cancer and Chol is good.

But I'm afraid of my shut down LH and FSH, also don't know is such a low E2 is OK?

I will go to my clinics with these tests, but I feel that in our country it is a new thing (TRT), so I would love to hear more experienced people opinions and suggestions.

I really want to have kids, but also feel good as I feel right now on test e!

Thanks

 

[Spongy]

you always run the risk of fertility issues when you cycle or on TRT. This is something I have been researching myself. When it is time for me to have kids, I will most likely have to come off for the time and use clomid/hcg, and possible HMG.

I will tell you that your E2 levels should be between 20-25. You may want to think about getting an AI.

 

[Misc]

i would use the neibedo. its just test with the deca ester in castor oil. i would do weekly injections with it cause it will keep your levels more stable since the half life is longer. also is the test E ugl or you get that from the clinic as well? UGL gear is cheaper than the one i get from the pharmacy but i would rather pay more for what i know is legit and properly dosed vs the UGL crap.

 

[Frustrated1]

Can you verify your Estradiol units. Are you sure it's not pmol/L If so then we would convert it to pg/ml which would be <20. So if your taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), you need to lessen the dosage. Sometimes we forget units (spongy), but he is right we tend to aim for 20's in pg/ml units. And everything he said is spot on.

Don't bother testing your LH or FSH now that your on T.

Your DHEAS is very low. Try taking pregnenolone and DHEA, either cream or sublingual only. These are both very cheap and available online without a prescription. You'll never feel your best with DHEA that depleted. Shoot for the upper range.

 

[Spongy]

Can you verify your Estradiol units. Are you sure it's not pmol/L If so then we would convert it to pg/ml which would be <20. So if your taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), you need to lessen the dosage. Sometimes we forget units (spongy), but he is right we tend to aim for 20's in pg/ml units. And everything he said is spot on.

Don't bother testing your LH or FSH now that your on T.

Your DHEAS is very low. Try taking pregnenolone and DHEA, either cream or sublingual only. These are both very cheap and available online without a prescription. You'll never feel your best with DHEA that depleted. Shoot for the upper range.

good call on this, didn't even look at units. I'm so used to looking at my lab results lol!

Frustrated has given you some good advice on this my friend.

 

[Artyi]

Can you verify your Estradiol units. Are you sure it's not pmol/L If so then we would convert it to pg/ml which would be <20. So if your taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), you need to lessen the dosage. Sometimes we forget units (spongy), but he is right we tend to aim for 20's in pg/ml units. And everything he said is spot on.

Don't bother testing your LH or FSH now that your on T.

Your DHEAS is very low. Try taking pregnenolone and DHEA, either cream or sublingual only. These are both very cheap and available online without a prescription. You'll never feel your best with DHEA that depleted. Shoot for the upper range.

Thank you for your reply, it is really informative!

Sorry, for the mistake. It was pmol/l. You are right. So, what is the situation? As I'm only taking Test E 250mg every monday. No Aromatase inhibitor (AI), nothing...
In the lab which did me these tests, they told that E2 is very low and their machines only show results after 73pmol/l, other results are just below that... So I don't know the exact result, all I know it is really low.

Please, could you tell me more on DHEAS, as I'm hearing it for the first time... Is it expensive, and does it have any severe side effects or it is kinda safe? How it is used?

 

[BZOERB]

Im also curious about the Pregnenolone & Dhea Cream. I saw a guy on here talking about using 15 mg of Pregnenolone & Dhea Cream per day what is this benefit of using these when you're on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). I see an online vitamin store has a special if you buy both the Pregnenolone & Dhea Cream 2 oz bottles 15 mg per pump 40 pumps per bottle for $20.

 

[Spongy]

I***8217;m curious about the Pregnenolone & Dhea Creams also, I saw a guy on here who uses 15mg of each per day in the cream form, is 15mg a good amount of these to use each day on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? I see __________ has a special on the pair each supply 15mg per pump made by life-flo is this what you***8217;re talking about?

can't comment on this because i don't use, but I would edit out the web address since they are not a sponsor.

 

[BZOERB]

sorry about that I edited the web site out.
thanks

 

[Artyi]

I have ordered DHEA 25mg. Read a lot of articles about the usage, but I'm a little bit confused how it really should be used.

Found following strategies:
1) 25mg every morning with breakfast;
2) 50mg every morning with breakfast;
3) 25mg in the morning and 25mg in the evening.

While it says that using 50mg and more can increase E2.
What would be your suggestions on using DHEA in my case? 5.65nmol/l [5.6-27.8]

 

[brownchoclit]

interesting thread. we have the same problem here in my country Artyi...TRT is just not a very common thing at all and doctors just do not have a clue.

 

[Artyi]

interesting thread. we have the same problem here in my country Artyi...TRT is just not a very common thing at all and doctors just do not have a clue.

This is a real problem in these countries. For example they even don't take tests for E2, DHEA or other hormones, except Test Serum, LH, FSH and they feel that they can tell you what is your problem only from these results and give you a treatment.
So, I'm trying to find other ways to treat myself in the right way... At least, find these holes, for example with this suggestion with DHEA supplement.

 

[Frustrated1]

Thanks spongy.

I'm on both pregnenolone and dhea. I am only following what others have done, and am pretty green at this. dhea is the mother of androgenic hormones, pregnenolone is the grand mother of all hormones. To me pregnenolone is the most interesting. It will fill deficient hormones one by by until they are all full. Your body regulates this. The thing is if you are deficient in cortisol it may take 6 months for it to get to it. So don't expect miracles immediately.

Probably less is better. They were out of cream when I ordered so I opted for sublingual. I will get the cream next time.

I take...
Pregnenolone 10mg in morning
DHEA 12mg Morning, and 12mg afternoon or early evening.

Seems that in the beginning the target was as high as possible, then it was about 500, and now about 300. So I'm targeting for a DHEAS level of ~300, I was at 187. FYI DHEA fluctuates way too much, thus DHEAS is a much more stable measurement

I would encourage everybody to read up on both of these powerful hormones. I personally think that everybody should be on them, but I'm no Dr., I just read a lot. I think in another post I had a link to 2 great audio tracks from DO John Crisler.

 

[Artyi]

Thanks spongy.

I'm on both pregnenolone and dhea. I am only following what others have done, and am pretty green at this. dhea is the mother of androgenic hormones, pregnenolone is the grand mother of all hormones. To me pregnenolone is the most interesting. It will fill deficient hormones one by by until they are all full. Your body regulates this. The thing is if you are deficient in cortisol it may take 6 months for it to get to it. So don't expect miracles immediately.

Probably less is better. They were out of cream when I ordered so I opted for sublingual. I will get the cream next time.

I take...
Pregnenolone 10mg in morning
DHEA 12mg Morning, and 12mg afternoon or early evening.

Seems that in the beginning the target was as high as possible, then it was about 500, and now about 300. So I'm targeting for a DHEAS level of ~300, I was at 187. FYI DHEA fluctuates way too much, thus DHEAS is a much more stable measurement

I would encourage everybody to read up on both of these powerful hormones. I personally think that everybody should be on them, but I'm no Dr., I just read a lot. I think in another post I had a link to 2 great audio tracks from DO John Crisler.

Thanks for your respond.

These last 2 days I was reading a lot about it. I found out that it is better to take 25mg every morning, so it more stable for hormones, but there are cases like yours, separating it into morning and evening.

I will start with an easier way: every morning 25mg of DHEA.

But, I also read that by taking Pregnenolone, you should't take DHEA... I was surprised. Anyway, I'll start with DHEA. Could't order Preg.

I'm still confused do I need any AI? I see cases where people even with low E2 are taking AI.

BTW: some acne after 3.5 months of using Test E started showing up on my chest... I still can't figure out is it because of Test or peanut butter, which I was eating a lot in those past 5 days, like never before.

 

[Frustrated1]

Thanks for your respond.

These last 2 days I was reading a lot about it. I found out that it is better to take 25mg every morning, so it more stable for hormones, but there are cases like yours, separating it into morning and evening.

I will start with an easier way: every morning 25mg of DHEA.

But, I also read that by taking Pregnenolone, you should't take DHEA... I was surprised. Anyway, I'll start with DHEA. Could't order Preg.

I'm still confused do I need any AI? I see cases where people even with low E2 are taking AI.

BTW: some acne after 3.5 months of using Test E started showing up on my chest... I still can't figure out is it because of Test or peanut butter, which I was eating a lot in those past 5 days, like never before.

Do NOT take anything for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Your number is below 20 (when converted to our standard number). Taking anything will crash your estrogens and you will feel worse.

The idea of splitting up the dosage is you should feel more consistent.

You can and should take both. pregnenolone can follow multiple pathways. One of them is to convert to dhea. If your dhea is higher it will fill whatever else that your void in. You can also keep your hair from thinning with pregnenolone without the side effects

Listen to these... Dr Crisler is very good at hormones.
Pregnenolone

DHEA

 

[Artyi]

Do NOT take anything for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Your number is below 20 (when converted to our standard number). Taking anything will crash your estrogens and you will feel worse.

The idea of splitting up the dosage is you should feel more consistent.

You can and should take both. pregnenolone can follow multiple pathways. One of them is to convert to dhea. If your dhea is higher it will fill whatever else that your void in. You can also keep your hair from thinning with pregnenolone without the side effects

Listen to these... Dr Crisler is very good at hormones.
Pregnenolone

DHEA

Thanks for the links. Didin't have time to listen the whole thing, but the beginning seems to be smart.

Today I'm receiving DHEA. I couldn't fins a decent website to order Preg. to Europe in small doses. only in 50mg capsules...

Going to visit a new doctor this friday with all my medical history and last blood test results.

I read some posts that Dr. in US tend to raise T to the level of 700-800 while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), is it right? What is the highest point, when it considers to be a cycle and not a TRT?

BTW, when it is better to take blood test for a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) after injection, if I'm doing it every monday morning?

 

[Artyi]

Just got back from a new doctor.

On the new results from my blood tests, she told that my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is Ok with Test E (250mg) every 7 days.

Also, told that taking 25mg of DHEA every day is OK. But I should keep an eye on my gyno? How the heck I keep an eye on it? How soon should I see changes if they will be?

 

[03ACE]

You will know if you are getting gyno if you start to develop a mass in your breast tissue. You will probably notice sore or sensitive nipples before that happens though.

 

[kaoz123]

I started the dhea n preg an after a week I feel like it's converting over to estrogen. Same diet n routine but look fatter holding more water. My wife said your cheeks look bloated. I'm using the cream stuffs way stronger then when I would take pills. I'm thinking about stoping it.

 

[Artyi]

Thanks for your comments. I'll keep in mind that!

I had sensitive nipples when just started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) on my 3rd injection, but it got away after 2 days and didn't have any issues later.

Well, another thing. I'm really training hard in the gym all the time. Will I not misunderstand it as chest muscle development? I never had it or seen gyno in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), so it's hard for me to know how it looks like.

Anyway, I just got a third opinion from one guy who is on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for a long time and he told that my 250mg every 7 days is not enough, as Test Serum result after 4 days reaching only 750ng/gl is too low, is it correct? Or he is just trolling?