The Truth about Protein

[gogo4]

Moderation is key. For a healthy individual I belive you should not neglect an vitamin/mineral over another. I did however change my diet and my protein intake is only about 50gms/day vs the 200gm I used to eat. I weigh in at 185 9% bf 5'11. I will see after a month or two of eating alot more fruits and veggies how this diet will benefit/harm me and repost it here =)

I did notice some things in the last 5 days of trying. My stool is fresh and light brown vs high protein diet its alot darker. Energy level is up and increasing as days go by. My weight has not changed yet so we'l see. I will update + vascularity seems to have increased even though I gained water weight.

 

[Miss Muscle]

Moderation is key. For a healthy individual I belive you should not neglect an vitamin/mineral over another. I did however change my diet and my protein intake is only about 50gms/day vs the 200gm I used to eat. I weigh in at 185 9% bf 5'11. I will see after a month or two of eating alot more fruits and veggies how this diet will benefit/harm me and repost it here =)

I did notice some things in the last 5 days of trying. My stool is fresh and light brown vs high protein diet its alot darker. Energy level is up and increasing as days go by. My weight has not changed yet so we'l see. I will update + vascularity seems to have increased even though I gained water weight.

Be sure to keep us updated! I'm currently eating approx 300 grams protein per day! And I've noticed I've been alot more constipated lately! Which sucks harsh! I think it's the protein consumption....and my stool is the same as yours with high protein!

 

[DocJ]

insulin response-

This is a big deal...the majority of the population in the U.S. has terrible glucose control.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

This is a big deal...the majority of the population in the U.S. has terrible glucose control.

I'm going to disagree with this on this. We have no way of proving one way or another. Just can't be done.

In addition many people believe they can not process carbs properly, which is again 90% of the time false. When used in the proper diet scheme the vast majority do just fine.

Again this comes back to those individuals having 2 problems.

Calorie Control and way over eating for their bodies.
Eating the wrong foods.

You fix these 2 problems and it almost never fails they do just fine.

 

[DocJ]

I'm going to disagree with this on this. We have no way of proving one way or another. Just can't be done.

In addition many people believe they can not process carbs properly, which is again 90% of the time false. When used in the proper diet scheme the vast majority do just fine.

Again this comes back to those individuals having 2 problems.

Calorie Control and way over eating for their bodies.
Eating the wrong foods.

You fix these 2 problems and it almost never fails they do just fine.

There are several blood tests that can "prove" this quite easily (eg. One-Hour Post Prandial Blood Sugar Test).

What happens is people eat like shit for years, develop poor glucose control and then the only way they can lose weight is on a low carb diet. They need to eat decent from the outset, then this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

There are several blood tests that can "prove" this quite easily (eg. One-Hour Post Prandial Blood Sugar Test).

What happens is people eat like shit for years, develop poor glucose control and then the only way they can lose weight is on a low carb diet. They need to eat decent from the outset, then this wouldn't be a problem.

I understand how we can measure insulin respone-

The problem is you said the "majority" of the population has this problem

We can not prove the above statement- How dow we know this? Have we measured every single person in the U.S? No.. So again this is a factless based opinion and this is what most people think. I can't handle carbs. SO they go low carb when in fact they don't need to.

They just need to start eating better and in the proper amounts. Our bodies figure it out fairly fast.

 

[DocJ]

I understand how we can measure insulin respone-

The problem is you said the "majority" of the population has this problem

We can not prove the above statement- How dow we know this? Have we measured every single person in the U.S? No.. So again this is a factless based opinion and this is what most people think. I can't handle carbs. SO they go low carb when in fact they don't need to.

They just need to start eating better and in the proper amounts. Our bodies figure it out fairly fast.

Ahhh, ok yes, I agree we can't prove that but judging by the close to 2,000 patients I've seen in my career it has to be close to a majority if not one. Look at it this way: What % of the U.S. population is overweight? (or use obese if you want) and then what % of those people have poor glucose control? (close to 100% I'd wager).

The body is amazing and can adapt fairly quickly, however, it's speed is at least somewhat dependant on the length of time someone has had a poor diet, which, admittedly might be more a function of chronological age.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

Ahhh, ok yes, I agree we can't prove that but judging by the close to 2,000 patients I've seen in my career it has to be close to a majority if not one. Look at it this way: What % of the U.S. population is overweight? (or use obese if you want) and then what % of those people have poor glucose control? (close to 100% I'd wager).

The body is amazing and can adapt fairly quickly, however, it's speed is at least somewhat dependant on the length of time someone has had a poor diet, which, admittedly might be more a function of chronological age.

First i have to ask what type of doctor are you?

Second, I agree that a huge % of the population is over control and again this is more of a calorie issue then it is a response to glucose.

And from the number of clients i have had in person and online, I will disagree with the statement that the length of time a individual has been eating poorly, Correlates to how long it takes someone to get back to what you and I would consider "normal". At most its usually 4 - 8 weeks of strict dieting.

I actually believe next week i will be putting an example up on the diet forum that goes through an entire client program, and the individual in mind would fit nicely with this discussion at hand.

 

[DocJ]

And from the number of clients i have had in person and online, I will disagree with the statement that the length of time a individual has been eating poorly, Correlates to how long it takes someone to get back to what you and I would consider "normal". At most its usually 4 - 8 weeks of strict dieting.

So for example: a 25 year old female and a 45 year old female would both take 4-8 weeks of strict dieting to get back to "normal?"

 

[DocJ]

Second, I agree that a huge % of the population is over control and again this is more of a calorie issue then it is a response to glucose.

For some yes, just excessive caloric intake but I can't tell you how many people I run across who only take in a maintenance calorie level but have terrrible glucose control because 80% of it is processed sugars.

 

[Miss Muscle]

This is exactly why you two are moderators. An intelligent, intellectual discussion/debate. You may disagree with each others point of views but you don't start in with the personal insults just because you disagree. Very commendable gentlemen.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

For some yes, just excessive caloric intake but I can't tell you how many people I run across who only take in a maintenance calorie level but have terrrible glucose control because 80% of it is processed sugars.

As for the post on 4 - 8 weeks. Yes I believe most (90%) of the people that strictly diet, wether they are 25 - 45 (man or women) can improve their response to carbs in that time frame. As I previously state very early in the thread about 10% of those individuals just never will be able to tolerate carbs at any level. Which is where the Ketogenic diet comes into play.

That is not to say that supplement wise they might not need different types of help. The 25 yo probably does not "need" an enzyme supplement (although it doesn't hurt) where as the 45 year old is probably lacking in some areas when it comes to enzymes. This is more a product of age then anything. This to a degree is a problem for many not just with digesting carbs but proteins as well.

I think one of the key statements you made was - I have several patients that eat mainteance level kcals but have poor glucose tolerance because of processed carbs.

Absolutely I can agree with that, but give them the right kind of carbs spread through the day in line with "what that individual needs" and you will see a drastic improvement in that 4 - 8 week time frame.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

This is exactly why you two are moderators. An intelligent, intellectual discussion/debate. You may disagree with each others point of views but you don't start in with the personal insults just because you disagree. Very commendable gentlemen.

Nothing is ever accomplished by insulting others. The reason all of us are here is to quench a thirst for knowledge. I am the first to admit I do not know everything and have been wrong on several occasions. However you learn from those instances and move forward. I do have strong opinions on some of my stances because of the line of work i'm in and the success i have had. I am sure DocJ feels the same.

Like I said - I really want to put up a "case" study next week, as I think it will shed more light on to what i've tried to argue for over the last 4 years.

 

[DocJ]

As for the post on 4 - 8 weeks. Yes I believe most (90%) of the people that strictly diet, wether they are 25 - 45 (man or women) can improve their response to carbs in that time frame. As I previously state very early in the thread about 10% of those individuals just never will be able to tolerate carbs at any level. Which is where the Ketogenic diet comes into play.

That is not to say that supplement wise they might not need different types of help. The 25 yo probably does not "need" an enzyme supplement (although it doesn't hurt) where as the 45 year old is probably lacking in some areas when it comes to enzymes. This is more a product of age then anything. This to a degree is a problem for many not just with digesting carbs but proteins as well.

I think one of the key statements you made was - I have several patients that eat mainteance level kcals but have poor glucose tolerance because of processed carbs.

Absolutely I can agree with that, but give them the right kind of carbs spread through the day in line with "what that individual needs" and you will see a drastic improvement in that 4 - 8 week time frame.

I wholeheartedly agree that: "(90%) of the people that strictly diet, wether they are 25 - 45 (man or women) can improve their response to carbs in that time frame."
My only point was that due to metabolism changes (specifically women) experienced as people reach middle age would make this process a slower one. I'd submit that it's also safe to assume that the average 45 year old would have an increased number of years with a poor diet as opposed to the 25 year old. Clearly, this isn't always the case but I am speaking of the general population as a whole who is attempting to correct their dietary ways for the first time.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

I wholeheartedly agree that: "(90%) of the people that strictly diet, wether they are 25 - 45 (man or women) can improve their response to carbs in that time frame."
My only point was that due to metabolism changes (specifically women) experienced as people reach middle age would make this process a slower one. I'd submit that it's also safe to assume that the average 45 year old would have an increased number of years with a poor diet as opposed to the 25 year old. Clearly, this isn't always the case but I am speaking of the general population as a whole who is attempting to correct their dietary ways for the first time.

Doc - I will give you this. If you are talking about the general everyday 45 year old women who engages in NO physical activity and just changes her diet then yes it most likely will take longer. Many times I assume we are talking about individuals who are physically active. This is probably because i'm a trainer and the people I deal with. Obviously not everyone does any type of weights/cardio. So you have me there.

 

[enemyeight]

thank qou for quoting so much,and tell us so amount of info,it s hard for me to finish it .i in a day only eat a cup of tea, an apple,and a bar of chocolate
haha

 

[adidamps2]

thank qou for quoting so much,and tell us so amount of info,it s hard for me to finish it .i in a day only eat a cup of tea, an apple,and a bar of chocolate
haha

please tell us your 1st language is not english

 

[DocJ]

Doc - I will give you this. If you are talking about the general everyday 45 year old women who engages in NO physical activity and just changes her diet then yes it most likely will take longer. Many times I assume we are talking about individuals who are physically active. This is probably because i'm a trainer and the people I deal with. Obviously not everyone does any type of weights/cardio. So you have me there.

Yes, I suspected we might have been talking about two different groups in past posts. I should've clarified exactly who I was talking about with my conclusions.

 

[Rake922]

whyle