The Truth about Protein

[adidamps2]

what is concidered "intact" nutrtion?
full spectrum of aminos and EFA's along with minerals and vitamins???
concidering i meet all those requirements on a high fat med protien low carb diet why would i even attempt to go low protien.

you realize glucose can be made by the body right.
however amino acids and efa can not be made by the body.
why rob it of the essential for soemthing it can accomplish in its own.

 

[TheBrent]

are you trying to imply if i eat like a gorilla i can become as strong as one?!
what about elephants? if i eat like them will i be as strong as them?
rabbits, will i attain there speed on a high carrot diet?
what about whales, if i eat enough krill can i swim and hold my breath like a whale does?!

yes, because we are SOOOO closely related to the whale and rabbit. Eat up those carrots pal.

 

[TheBrent]

are you trying to imply if i eat like a gorilla i can become as strong as one?!
what about elephants? if i eat like them will i be as strong as them?
rabbits, will i attain there speed on a high carrot diet?
what about whales, if i eat enough krill can i swim and hold my breath like a whale does?!

I suppose what I was getting at (without being a smartass)... Have you ever thought you're eating "too much" or more than needed?

 

[TheBrent]

what do you concider low pro?
50g, 100g how about 150g???
what is "LOW"

i have went as low 150g and as high 350g
my typical diet as of right now has me at 180-210g protien ED.
i concider that, by the way most here eat pretty low.

I said "lower" and for a reason. Would you say the standard on many of these fitness boards is 30-40% protein?

So with that being the standard or average, then Low or, in relation to the 'article' maybe around 15%, but with all the essential and necessary amounts of amino acids being taken in.

hope that makes sense.

 

[adidamps2]

I suppose what I was getting at (without being a smartass)... Have you ever thought you're eating "too much" or more than needed?

yes, but not of protien...
it was grains, legumes and other foods i now tend to avoid.

beside the only reasons animals were brought into this whole discussion was because of the OP or i should say writer. letting us know elephants are so strong becuase of their diets. thus implying we should eat like elephants. no?

 

[TheBrent]

did you read the last paragraph there HERO?!
we dont have the digestive system/track that they do either.

let me get to this tomorrow. seems there is debate on this subject.

I'm not saying we need no protein, just that we may not need as much, and I myself am still trying to figure out if this is true, both by reading and attempting the diet myself.

My goal isn't to be 225 @ 5% bf standing 5' 8" tall. I don't want to be a true BBer. my goals are more 'modest', or less.

This article wasn't about 250-300lb BBers either.

 

[adidamps2]

I said "lower" and for a reason. Would you say the standard on many of these fitness boards is 30-40% protein?

So with that being the standard or average, then Low or, in relation to the 'article' maybe around 15%, but with all the essential and necessary amounts of amino acids being taken in.

hope that makes sense.

well i guess that takes me back out of moderate protien and puts me back into the high group as my diet is roughly 25-30% protien, however it is also 60-65% fat and a mere 5-10% carbs after i minus out fiber.

 

[TheBrent]

beside the only reasons animals were brought into this whole discussion was because of the OP or i should say writer. letting us know elephants are so strong becuase of their diets. thus implying we should eat like elephants. no?

OP? not sure what that means, maybe I'm too tired to put it together. Anyway...

"One of the groups of animals that is eaten for protein is cattle, some fourty million a year. that's alot of meat. For strength! that's actually the first reason given for the necessity of eating meat. "we need to keep up our strength." Well, lets just take a look at that. What would you say is the strongest animal on the planet? Most people would say an elephant. i would agree. As a matter of fact, if you had to think of the strongest animals in the world, the ones used for centuries for their superior strength and endurance, what would they be? Elephants, oxen, horses, mules, camels, water buffalo. What do they eat? Leafy matter, grass, and fruit. Have you ever seen a silverback gorilla? the silverback gorilla physiologically resembles the human being. It is incredibly strong. Even though one is three times the size of the average man, it has thirty times a man's strength! A silverback could toss a two-hundred pound man across the street like a frisbee. And what does the silverback eat? Fruits and other vegetation! What does that indicate to you about the necessity to eat meat for strength? Forget for the time being all the input and opinions you've heard. What do you think? What about the steer meat being eaten for it's near-perfect protein? What did the steer eat to build that protein? Meat? No! Grain and grass! Interesting, isn't it? How can that be? On one side we have all the scientific data showing the benefits of eating meat, and on the other we have our common sense finding that point of view hard to swallow."

I don't think his point was that eating greens is going to make us strong like these animals... He is simply pointing out that these animals didn't become the strongest animals on the planet by eating meat. To me, this means that meat (not amino acids) is not what makes you or them strong. It's from building and/or gaining muscle mass, which according to this article is done via amino acids directly and not protein directly.

We may just be interpreting this part of the article differently when it comes to the meat section, but I, in no way see him saying- "EAT GRASS! you'll get huge"

 

[TheBrent]

well i guess that takes me back out of moderate protien and puts me back into the high group as my diet is roughly 25-30% protien, however it is also 60-65% fat and a mere 5-10% carbs after i minus out fiber.

It comes down to each individual. Like stated a million times on these boards, everyone is different (genetically etc) and everyone has different goals. When this article was written, it wasn't made for ronnie coleman or the next aspiring one. it was written, after a few individuals had questions. None of us had the goals that many on these boards have, however the auther seems to think 'above average' physics can be unmaintained as well as better overall health dieting this way.

-above average meaning looking better, much better than average joe who doesn't really lift weights.

I think people on this board saw an article and didn't get any of the additional posts in the 3 threads that cleared a lot of things up. You can get huge on the standard BBing diet, and lean and I'm sure fairly healthy.. this one is just an alternative that may (and most likely won't) give you the biggest physique you can acheive.

 

[TheBrent]

I'm off to bed. It is WAY past my bedtime. ha.

I'll check back here tomorrow.

nice chattin about this Adidamps

 

[ManOfMuscle]

This article wasn't about 250-300lb BBers either.

OK.

 

[Miss Muscle]

I wouldn't say that- I just believe that it is more individualistic then everyone should be doing all fat or all carbs. I have found that through personal experience that about 90% of individuals who are looking to maximize their BB goals and stay healthy should be on the pro / carb diet. The other 10% should lower the carbs and up the fat.

If we are talking about your everyday individual who has no intention on stepping on a BB stage or even trying to maximize their physique like the people on this board then more of a balanced diet between pro / carbs / fats is best.

The individual in question has to be analyzed before we throw % out there.

The latest fad right now in the world of bodybuilding seems to be the fat/protein diet. Scott Abel and my hero Palumbo swear by it and their athletes are seeing fantastic results.

Dirk......on the pro/carb diet what percentage is fat.....if any? And for the 10% of people that do better on the pro/fat diet....what percentage is carbs if any?

 

[Miss Muscle]

well i guess that takes me back out of moderate protien and puts me back into the high group as my diet is roughly 25-30% protien, however it is also 60-65% fat and a mere 5-10% carbs after i minus out fiber.

How's that working for you and are your carb sources vegetables?

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

The latest fad right now in the world of bodybuilding seems to be the fat/protein diet. Scott Abel and my hero Palumbo swear by it and their athletes are seeing fantastic results.

Dirk......on the pro/carb diet what percentage is fat.....if any? And for the 10% of people that do better on the pro/fat diet....what percentage is carbs if any?

When did Scott Abel start using a fat/protein diet? I know Palumbo advocates it but it seems like Scott Abel has done a complete 180 if that is what he is now doing. Last time I knew he was more for carbs/pro and even digging deeper he is very proud of his "cycle diet". Could he have changed. Sure, he has completely changed how he does workouts and cardio. Which I think is crap. His old way of advocating cardio and workouts "Was the only way" because of science. Or this is what he use to preach and put down other trainers such as Dante or my buddy Skip over at intense muscle. He had a hay day when Dante (who is low volume) and skip (who i'm not trying to peg into one category but had Lou Joseph on fats and proteins) came in soft and there was a huge fiasco) or any other method. Now he is doing MET, which if the other way was the only way how can you this be the best way now if the last was.

Don't get me wrong, I 100% believe that if a better way comes along of doing something then do it. Thats called change and we all benefit from change. However do not put others down for their methods because your way is the only legit way to do something only to change your way and then say its the only way again. 100% crap IMO.

Dave is a smart man and when it comes to the 10% of people I talk about that I feel have to be on a Keto diet his methods are great. I can't argue with that. I just don't think everyone should be put into that category of needing it.

As for the %, that is very hard to say. It could be anywhere from 10 - 30%. Any more then 30% and your going into a higher fat diet. I tend to go more on the low side if you were to sit down and calculate it out. But then again I tweak up or down. Start somewhere around 40 - 45% Protein, 40 - 45% Carbs, and 10 - 20% Fat. Tweak the macros up or down 5% at a time if that helps you quantify it better.

 

[ManOfMuscle]

Dirk what are the primary differences between someone who does better on protein/fat vs. protein/carb?

 

[shaggz]

I will eat an asian

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

Dirk what are the primary differences between someone who does better on protein/fat vs. protein/carb?

oxidation rates-
insulin response-
ect.

 

[Double3]

He's probably the smartest guy I've ever seen post on a steroid forum. He got to and maintained a relatively lean 280lbs @ 6'1 on 100g of protein or so a day.

.

Pics?

I'll answer that...no

 

[Double3]

Mallet wrote this post on IFL in response to inquiries about eating for general health (getting lean, staying lean, preventing heart disease), not eating to maximize muscle gains. Quote from the original post by Mallet: "I'm going to confine this thread to the effects on ones weight loss and energy level without getting intio any of the other subjects mentioned above." Mallet never intended to convince people you don't need protein to maximize muscle gains. He cited his own experience to show that it is possible to become very muscular eating in this manner. He also cites Bill Pearl to show that vegetarian bodybuilders can become very accomplished. The point was to show how much as a society we overemphasize protein intake.

There was a lot more to this discussion than just this article over at IFL. Discussion about circadian rhythms, food combination, protein degradation, the workings of the human digestive system, digestive enzymes, etc. The purpose of this article may have been less confusing had everyone been able to be a part of the entire discussion. The article was aimed for the members of IFL who are indeed "bodybuilders", but not those with the intention of getting as big as possible. I know nothing about this board, but based on its name, I may assume that most members here are looking to get BIG.

For those of you who are familiar with Mallet, you know that it is always his goal to use nutrition and exercise to maximize his health and well being, not to maximize his muscle mass. But at a lean 245 pounds, he has showed that it is possible to get pretty darn big eating this way. I have a personal goal of attaining a well developed physique, muscular, lean, but by no means huge. This article really seemed to be something to look at for someone like me.

So for those of you looking to be 250+ pounds of muscle, maybe this article isn't intended for you. To get to that size, you are no doubt going to need to eat big quantities of all macros, including protein. But the offset of eating this way for a lifetime is the sacrifice of health. For many, this is a sacrifice people are willing to make, and that's fine.

Sorry for the long rant, but we were having a very productive discussion on this topic over at IFL, then it disappeared. I heard it was being discussed over here, only to find out it was being taken out of its context and being blasted for ideas it wasn't even promoting.

He told me he made as good if not better gains than me eating like that... hmmm

weird he also had a thread on a diet he was eating that was way more than 100g of protein only 6 months prior...interesting

 

[Double3]

are you trying to imply if i eat like a gorilla i can become as strong as one?!
what about elephants? if i eat like them will i be as strong as them?
rabbits, will i attain there speed on a high carrot diet?
what about whales, if i eat enough krill can i swim and hold my breath like a whale does?!

Post of the year.

I just lol'd really hard. Why do some not understand this?