this whole Aesthetics thing is really getting out of control

[Hull Tech]

Mr. natty here, claims that it's only taken him 3 years to go from a nothing extomorph, to where he is now.. eating shit, partying and getting crap sleep all the way of course.

I don't know how many other trainers are on here, but BS like this starts to undermine the actual reality of physiology. So you have 130lb geeks expecting to be turned into 190lb shredded fitness models in 2-3 years.. all while partying, drinking, eating Mc.D's and pizza hut. Thankfully I can pick and choose but it's getting harder and harder to explain reality and fiction..

 

[DexterMorgan]

Ignore me, I'm just interested in what Dre is typing right now.

 

[DreDay187]

Mr. natty here, claims that it's only taken him 3 years to go from a nothing extomorph, to where he is now.. eating shit, partying and getting crap sleep all the way of course.

I don't know how many other trainers are on here, but BS like this starts to undermine the actual reality of physiology. So you have 130lb geeks expecting to be turned into 190lb shredded fitness models in 2-3 years.. all while partying, drinking, eating Mc.D's and pizza hut. Thankfully I can pick and choose but it's getting harder and harder to explain reality and fiction..

Are you trying to say someone cannot get a great physique if they party, drink, or go to McD's or Pizza Hut bc that's not true. The reality of physiology is already a warped perception by many in the fitness industry but that's bc confusion allows supp companies to sell product on mass levels to the sheep. Yes partyin and drinking and fast food will make it harder to achieve certain goals and likely lengthen the time frame but being a shredded fitness model and party, etc are not mutually exclusive of each other.

 

[Ocdude]

Fight the good fight man. It sucks that there's sooooooo much misinformation out there these days, and the availability of the Internet only exacerbates it further! Perhaps a few lucky genetic freaks out there have accomplished this type of transformation, but the reality is that very very few of us will ever experience anything like it without giving up certain luxuries. It does take hard work and effort.

 

[Hull Tech]

I've got a kinesiology degree and unless the body has dramatically evolved in the 18 years without science knowing about it. Then it's simply not possible to gain quality body mass eating hollow foods filled with phytosterols and saturated fats. Your foolish to think that you can do this, naturally, and still make gains. Esp. not like this guy, in 3 years, from nothing.

Are you trying to say someone cannot get a great physique if they party, drink, or go to McD's or Pizza Hut bc that's not true. The reality of physiology is already a warped perception by many in the fitness industry but that's bc confusion allows supp companies to sell product on mass levels to the sheep. Yes partyin and drinking and fast food will make it harder to achieve certain goals and likely lengthen the time frame but being a shredded fitness model and party, etc are not mutually exclusive of each other.

 

[CptFKNplanet]

Are you trying to say someone cannot get a great physique if they party, drink, or go to McD's or Pizza Hut bc that's not true. The reality of physiology is already a warped perception by many in the fitness industry but that's bc confusion allows supp companies to sell product on mass levels to the sheep. Yes partyin and drinking and fast food will make it harder to achieve certain goals and likely lengthen the time frame but being a shredded fitness model and party, etc are not mutually exclusive of each other.

I think he's referring to the time frame, not just that he follows flexible dieting and parties. The fact that he went from 130 - 190 SHREDDED in 3 years, WHILE partying and shit is unrealistic for a natural trainee. TBH as soon as I saw the LOA logo on there, I turned it off. Matt Ogus and his band of butt fuckers are all liars.

 

[SicVic]

Well maybe if you don't work, you can do light cardio all day and workout all night, eat multiple times a day ETC....

 

[skinnypete]

I think he's referring to the time frame, not just that he follows flexible dieting and parties. The fact that he went from 130 - 190 SHREDDED in 3 years, WHILE partying and shit is unrealistic for a natural trainee. TBH as soon as I saw the LOA logo on there, I turned it off. Matt Ogus and his band of butt fuckers are all liars.

big time, gotta fake it to make it these days i guess

 

[DreDay187]

I've got a kinesiology degree and unless the body has dramatically evolved in the 18 years without science knowing about it. Then it's simply not possible to gain quality body mass eating hollow foods filled with phytosterols and saturated fats. Your foolish to think that you can do this, naturally, and still make gains. Esp. not like this guy, in 3 years, from nothing.

The only thing foolish here is you creating a straw man and misrepresenting my argument Hull. Having a closed mind to the new discoveries of science or the erroneous interpretations of old science while implying a degree 18yo degree not related to nutrition is the end all of nutritional knowledge is not having an open mind. Saturated fats are important to an overall balanced diet and important to hormonal function so where is there a problem with their moderate inclusion in a diet? Do you avoid egg yolks like the plague bc of their saturated fat?

I did say that the inclusion of certain foods or lifestyle factors makes that time frame doubtful didn't I? So I never put a time frame on the transformation, I haven't even watched the video yet, all I'm doing is commenting on your dialogue after the link. Explain to me how a meal at McD's will prevent you from gaining quality mass ONCE nutritional needs have been met and in the context of isocalroic diets? Does a McDonald gram of fat make you any fatter than a gram of fat from olive oil when all other factors are equal? Is a pound of skeletal muscle made from a McDonald's included diet inferior to that of a chicken breast diet? How is muscle any different from itself depending on the source of food it took to build it? Read what I'm writing instead of making appeals to an extreme and misrepresenting my arguments. I know many many people who have done it naturally and on AAS but the key is MODERATION. A McDonald's meal or whatever else can be included in a diet if the rest of the diet fulfills nutritional needs and you fit the McDonald's meal into your caloric and macro allowance. Explain to me how a kinesiology degree gives you knowledge about nutrition? From Wikipedia:

In Canada, kinesiology is a professional designation associated with the assessment of movement, performance, and function; and the rehabilitation, prevention, and management of disorders to maintain, rehabilitate, and enhance movement, performance, and function in the areas of sport, recreation, work, exercise, and general activities of daily living.[10]

I don't see any mention of physiology, biology, nutritional science, etc in that description. Did your program teach you those subjects in detail or are they irrelevant to a degree in kinesiology? Did you learn these nutritional tidbits of wisdom on your own or were they part of a degree that deals with human KINETICS?

 

[DreDay187]

I think he's referring to the time frame, not just that he follows flexible dieting and parties. The fact that he went from 130 - 190 SHREDDED in 3 years, WHILE partying and shit is unrealistic for a natural trainee. TBH as soon as I saw the LOA logo on there, I turned it off. Matt Ogus and his band of butt fuckers are all liars.

I think the time frame is only part of his point. But if the time frame is the only point than how is it possible for us to guess about how much time he spends partying vs time in the gym. A simple YouTube video is not a documentary that follows someone around. Again I didn't watch the video and not commenting on it directly, but what I am saying is that you don't have to give up your life to have a great physique. Eatin out, having an occasional drink, going to a party is really something that I absolutely cannot do if I want to have a physique of a fitness model? Really?? How does one determine that?

 

[71Avido]

Iifym

 

[bigkit34]

I was a kiniesology major and yea all that is includ ... I left the fitness industry partly because of all the bs these days. That and i make twice as much in construction

 

[DreDay187]

I was a kiniesology major and yea all that is includ ... I left the fitness industry partly because of all the bs these days. That and i make twice as much in construction

The BS is simple to wade through if you know what to look for. It boils down to: tailoring your macro and caloric intake according to your body composition and goals, getting nutritional needs met micros/vitamins/minerals/fiber/etc, and meeting essential macro needs as well. Everything else is a largely a function of convenience over anything else.

Edit* Bigkit, where did you earn your degree from, was it in the states? I ask bc that wiki quote I put up said kinesiology degrees in CANADA which is where Hulltech is if his location is accurate. Different countries have different requirements.

 

[CptFKNplanet]

I think the time frame is only part of his point. But if the time frame is the only point than how is it possible for us to guess about how much time he spends partying vs time in the gym. A simple YouTube video is not a documentary that follows someone around. Again I didn't watch the video and not commenting on it directly, but what I am saying is that you don't have to give up your life to have a great physique. Eatin out, having an occasional drink, going to a party is really something that I absolutely cannot do if I want to have a physique of a fitness model? Really?? How does one determine that?

Like I said, I didn't watch it either. However, eating out, OCCASIONAL drinking, etc I believe is fully doable while achieving a fitness model physique. TBH I don't believe a lot of these "famous" models that say they never drink, etc. Tell me if you look like that and have some amount of fame your not out pullin bitches all the time... that's beside the point though. I personally have reached my goals while allowing myself one day per week to drink, etc. Now if this guy is going out getting fucked up every night to where he wakes up hungover every day then that is a different story. Again, I didn't watch the video so I don't know what exactly the guy said but, the transformation stated, with the given factors, sounds completely unrealistic to me and I stand by that.

You already know I don't buy into the whole "clean" diet shit Doc. Come on now.

 

[DreDay187]

Like I said, I didn't watch it either. However, eating out, OCCASIONAL drinking, etc I believe is fully doable while achieving a fitness model physique. TBH I don't believe a lot of these "famous" models that say they never drink, etc. Tell me if you look like that and have some amount of fame your not out pullin bitches all the time... that's beside the point though. I personally have reached my goals while allowing myself one day per week to drink, etc. Now if this guy is going out getting fucked up every night to where he wakes up hungover every day then that is a different story. Again, I didn't watch the video so I don't know what exactly the guy said but, the transformation stated, with the given factors, sounds completely unrealistic to me and I stand by that.

You already know I don't buy into the whole "clean" diet shit Doc. Come on now.

That's my point as well Cap and yes I should know better by now, that's why I <3 you! Again, moderation is a key word many people ignore.

 

[CptFKNplanet]

That's my point as well Cap and yes I should know better by now, that's why I <3 you! Again, moderation is a key word many people ignore.

Yes, moderation is key, many things deemed "taboo" in the health and fitness industry are fine to partake in... HOWEVEEEEEERRRRRR... the OP is taking a sarcastic stab at this guy being natural (as he claims natty) which is where the argument should be. Not who has what degree, or who eats what, or who sucks my dick.

 

[Hull Tech]

LOL because nutrition or lack there of as your trying to argue, somehow overcomes the basic physics and chemistry of the body? What else is included in that pizza hut pizza besides bread cheese and processed meats ? what else is in that burger besides mostly soy and very little actual meat? It's dropped so low that they aren't even allowed to call it a burger any more in Canada but a sandwich. I've got a young guy, ( just out of school and a trainer), I work with, he's of the same mind as you ' eat what you want as long as you hit your macros' BS, the moment he comes off cycle he's shrinking like a grape in the sun. After 6 cycles and not gaining or keeping any weight, ( even following many of the stupid eating philosophy's your kind push), he's finally getting it and cleaning up his diet. his skin is better, energy is better, he's sleeping better and he's gaining faster... This is just one example of many.

The only thing foolish here is you creating a straw man and misrepresenting my argument Hull. Having a closed mind to the new discoveries of science or the erroneous interpretations of old science while implying a degree 18yo degree not related to nutrition is the end all of nutritional knowledge is not having an open mind. Saturated fats are important to an overall balanced diet and important to hormonal function so where is there a problem with their moderate inclusion in a diet? Do you avoid egg yolks like the plague bc of their saturated fat?

I did say that the inclusion of certain foods or lifestyle factors makes that time frame doubtful didn't I? So I never put a time frame on the transformation, I haven't even watched the video yet, all I'm doing is commenting on your dialogue after the link. Explain to me how a meal at McD's will prevent you from gaining quality mass ONCE nutritional needs have been met and in the context of isocalroic diets? Does a McDonald gram of fat make you any fatter than a gram of fat from olive oil when all other factors are equal? Is a pound of skeletal muscle made from a McDonald's included diet inferior to that of a chicken breast diet? How is muscle any different from itself depending on the source of food it took to build it? Read what I'm writing instead of making appeals to an extreme and misrepresenting my arguments. I know many many people who have done it naturally and on AAS but the key is MODERATION. A McDonald's meal or whatever else can be included in a diet if the rest of the diet fulfills nutritional needs and you fit the McDonald's meal into your caloric and macro allowance. Explain to me how a kinesiology degree gives you knowledge about nutrition? From Wikipedia:



I don't see any mention of physiology, biology, nutritional science, etc in that description. Did your program teach you those subjects in detail or are they irrelevant to a degree in kinesiology? Did you learn these nutritional tidbits of wisdom on your own or were they part of a degree that deals with human KINETICS?

 

[bigkit34]

The bs i was referring to was my coworkers in the industry with their 5$ PT certifications and their anavar only cycles giving out bad advice. You know i know what to do doc ... It just gets old coming to work everyday having to act cool with people like that ya know stupid and arrogant

 

[DreDay187]

The bs i was referring to was my coworkers in the industry with their 5$ PT certifications and their anavar only cycles giving out bad advice. You know i know what to do doc ... It just gets old coming to work everyday having to act cool with people like that ya know stupid and arrogant

Ain't that the truth! You can literally buy "certifications" now instead of earnin them haha. Yes Big, we both know you've been around this block for a minute haha

 

[DreDay187]

LOL because nutrition or lack there of as your trying to argue, somehow overcomes the basic physics and chemistry of the body? What else is included in that pizza hut pizza besides bread cheese and processed meats ? what else is in that burger besides mostly soy and very little actual meat? It's dropped so low that they aren't even allowed to call it a burger any more in Canada but a sandwich. I've got a young guy, ( just out of school and a trainer), I work with, he's of the same mind as you ' eat what you want as long as you hit your macros' BS, the moment he comes off cycle he's shrinking like a grape in the sun. After 6 cycles and not gaining or keeping any weight, ( even following many of the stupid eating philosophy's your kind push), he's finally getting it and cleaning up his diet. his skin is better, energy is better, he's sleeping better and he's gaining faster... This is just one example of many.

You just dont get it and you continue to make an appeal to an extreme! who ever said the ENTIRE diet is composed of pizza and burgers? i specifically said "once nutritional needs have been met" and you obviously can't meet nutritional needs with just a burger and a pizza but the pizza can have broccoli, peppers, onions etc and have more micros now than a simple piece of chicken breast. You can continue to cherry pick "case studies" all you want, correlation does not prove causation and have yet to show the source of the food is what caused this miraculous change. Did your example set up a control group? Does it compare isocalroic diets or at least eucaloric diets? Did you track macros and micros before and now? If you haven done any of these than you have no basis for your argument and are making grandiose assumptions.

To move away from the ridiculous examples youre using, Why don't you break down the physics and chemistry of the human body for us and explain how the body will metabolize 1 g carbohydrate of a pizza crust any differently than 1g of carbs from oats when all other factors are equal? Don't go back to your red herring fallacies of "what's included in the pizza etc etc etc" bc those factors are all the same. Now where's the difference in the biological processes? Is your body magic that it knows McDonald's is a dirty food but oats are clean? Show me a study that backs up what you're saying in the least that doesn't make any assumption errors?

After all this, all you've provided is a cherry picked example of "a kid", non-pertinent examples of diets, strawmen arguments, etc and there is an astonishing lack of objectivity in here. You came in with your mind made up, not open to hearing the other side which right off the bat makes you an illogical debater.