To all those saying you can maintain steroid gains.

Yes I actually do believe it. It has nothing to do with being stupid. This was my first cycle. I didnt know what to expect. So get off ur high horse.
So what ur saying is that even though I was on cycle, my lifts went up and so did my weight. None or very little of what I gained was muscle. I find that hard to believe. As far as the bloodwork I agree,I did make a mistake there not doing it.
 
Mrrippedzilla said:
Serious question:
Are you really stupid enough to believe that you lost 20 pounds of muscle in 10 days?
Do you really believe this?
Read my question again...really? REALLY?

Your numbers went up because your test was higher, your weight was higher, more glycogen & water within the muscles, better nutrition partitioning to direct your energy from food to be used as fuel for your workouts, etc - it had very little to do with actual muscle gain.

As for not keeping any of the gains, either your gear quality wasn't great or your pct didnt lead to a full recovery - botg of these require bloodwork.
My advice would be to get some bloodwork so we can see if there is something strange going on as far as recovery goes.
Click to expand...

Ripped is right. I took a pro-hormone for my first cycle and I hadn't done much research I gained 30lbs and did no PCT and I lost 35lbs after my cycle within a few weeks. Its physically impossible to lose 10lbs of muscle in such short amount of time unless you had it surgically removed.
 
2GAINS said:
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aRx5DhlI88
Its not just me who thinks this way
Click to expand...

You didnt lose 20 pounds of muscle because you never GAINED 20 pounds to begin with.
A few pounds lost? Maybe, but thats all.
Its physically impossible to gain & lose 20 pounds of real muscle in that timeframe, even aids patients who are bedridden cant do it.
If you cant accept this FACT then their is no hope & I'll stop trying to educate you.

Also, bios3/Jerry doesnt have a fucking clue what he's talking about - having a youtube channel does NOT make you an expert.
I once watched a few of his vidz since the topics were interesting & not discussed by others.
I then discovered that he doesnt have a clue about half the topics he discusses - I think it was a bullshit video on artificial sweeteners that made me laugh most.
I suggest you find more educational material to learn from in future :)
 
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Mrrippedzilla said:
You didnt lose 20 pounds of muscle because you never GAINED 20 pounds to begin with.
A few pounds lost? Maybe, but thats all.
Its physically impossible to gain & lose 20 pounds of real muscle in that timeframe, even aids patients who are bedridden cant do it.
If you cant accept this FACT then their is no hope & I'll stop trying to educate you.
Click to expand...

Spot On....
 
Ok lets say I didnt gain a single pound of muscle and it was all water. I ask you this then. Is it possible for your working sets on bench to increase by 50 lbs, 60 lbs on dead lifts, 50 lbs on squat not to mention the other increases, simply by adding some water to your muscle? It seems very highly unlikely to me.

Secondly this is my opinion which I could be wrong in but hear me out. Every drug has an effect on the user which wares off over a certain period of time, morphine, cocaine, weed, advil, tylenol and so on. If you are getting no stimulation from the drug then it makes sense for the drugs effects to ware off. In this case, the muscle gain. Testicular atrophy and so on. When you come off, your balls grow back and it makes sense that the muscle goes away too.

Thirdly, there could be a chance that this all depends on genetics. Some can keep the gains for longer than others and some just cant.

Even though I respect your opinions, the only way I will believe that steroid gains are able to be kept is if I can see it myself and so far I havent.
 
2GAINS said:
Ok lets say I didnt gain a single pound of muscle and it was all water. I ask you this then. Is it possible for your working sets on bench to increase by 50 lbs, 60 lbs on dead lifts, 50 lbs on squat not to mention the other increases, simply by adding some water to your muscle? It seems very highly unlikely to me.

Secondly this is my opinion which I could be wrong in but hear me out. Every drug has an effect on the user which wares off over a certain period of time, morphine, cocaine, weed, advil, tylenol and so on. If you are getting no stimulation from the drug then it makes sense for the drugs effects to ware off. In this case, the muscle gain. Testicular atrophy and so on. When you come off, your balls grow back and it makes sense that the muscle goes away too.

Thirdly, there could be a chance that this all depends on genetics. Some can keep the gains for longer than others and some just cant.

Even though I respect your opinions, the only way I will believe that steroid gains are able to be kept is if I can see it myself and so far I havent.
Click to expand...

Please find the part where I said all your lifting increases were due to water only - oh wait I never said that.
What I did say, and what you ignored, was that the other benefits of cycling such as higher test/gh, more glycogen, better nutrition partitioning along with a host of other hormonal changes caused the increase in performance.

I dont think you understand just how difficult it is to lose muscle - your opinion may apply to those who are already past their genetic limit otherwise it wont happen unless you've severely downregulated your hormones through a terrible pct.
The main reason people bitch about not keeping the gains is because they, like you, have this stupid assumption that the 20/30 pounds they gained on cycle is all muscle when it NEVER is. At best, 10-20% may be muscle.

In terms of your specific situation, without bloodwork we will never know why you didnt keep anything so its pointless to speculate.
 
So then I only gained only 2 lbs of real muscle in 12 weeks? That is easily achievable naturally and I refuse to accept the fact that I only gained that little when I could have done so naturally.
I know for a fact my training routine and diet are not the problem in this case because they have worked for me before. They may not be the best but I know they are not bad.

So how would it be possible I only gained so little when other people are gaining so much more and keeping it? My pct came from the same company which provided the gear and is very reputable in this forum. My diet and training are pretty standard.

It makes more sense for me to believe that the gains are not keepable than I dd something wrong when I know I had my bases covered. (Except the blood test)
 
Lol you didnt gain 20ls of muscle in 1 cycle, other wise you would be mr.o in 4 cycles...id say you gaind 6lbs of muscle you lost what you lost cuz ur pct was fake ik the lab you were using :p
 
Thats not how it works, once you get higher in weight its harder to keep gaining. Im not saying what I gained was all muscle but its futile to even argue. It wont bring my gains back. Just blast and cruise and das it
 
2GAINS said:
Thats not how it works, once you get higher in weight its harder to keep gaining. Im not saying what I gained was all muscle but its futile to even argue. It wont bring my gains back. Just blast and cruise and das it
Click to expand...
Lol @ "futile" lmao
 
2GAINS said:
Thats not how it works, once you get higher in weight its harder to keep gaining. Im not saying what I gained was all muscle but its futile to even argue. It wont bring my gains back. Just blast and cruise and das it
Click to expand...

Clearly you have no idea what you are doing. You have seasoned vets giving you advice and their opinions and you are not understanding or willing to understand a thing they said. You did not gain 20lbs of muscle because you did not lose 20lbs of muscle.

I will say, I think you could gain 20lbs of muscle from a long cycle as a NOOB. As in you are 160lbs and just started lifting. Rich Piana added 46lbs in a year to his stage weight, fucking Big rammy added 87 fucking lbs in a year to his stage weight. Im not saying it cant be done, BUT you definitely will not lose muscle like that.

A friend of mine cut for 25 weeks for a natural bbing show. By the end of prep his test levels were 125 SERUM and he had bod pod tests done all the way through prep and he lost 1lb of lean muscle with almost no testosterone. Granted, his diet was on point but losing muscle is a lot harder than you think
 
3 years ago I weighed 170 at 10%ish
Today I weigh 195 at 6% and most likely 185 at 5% for my show Saturday.
I haven't came off in a year, I don't have over a 200 test level regardless.

And I'm pretty confident that I would get smaller but I highly doubt I would lose actual muscle that I've aquired over 3 years, and if you think I'm going to shrink back to 170, your crazy.

It takes time to build quality muscle. You did a cycle, you'll do another and another and another and be about the lifestyle or you won't. It's that simple. Now go eat some real food and lift some weight

Edit:just wanted to say before I started to cut for this show I was 225 at 15% and my mind frame was totally different 16weeks ago until now. I used to think what I was carrying was quality. It wasn't it was a bunch of useless fluff.
Put some work into this game and you'll be rewarded.
 
Last edited:
2GAINS said:
Thats not how it works, once you get higher in weight its harder to keep gaining. Im not saying what I gained was all muscle but its futile to even argue. It wont bring my gains back. Just blast and cruise and das it
Click to expand...

You could drink a lot of water and get your "lost gains" back pretty fast. :)
 
Last edited:
Megatron28 said:
You could drink a lot of water and get your "lost gains" back pretty fast. :)
Click to expand...

Lmao that's funny.
Mainly because if I had his mentality when I started water loading yesterday and I've gained 5 lbs
I would actually be happy about it and the day I have to cut the water and lose it I would be sad like where did all my gains go :(
 
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