Toremifene PCTs, where are you?

Leiurus

Leiurus

Vae Victis
When I started to cycle something like 7 years ago, Toremifene was increasingly recommended for PCT against Clomifene, it was heavily discussed and the general consensus was that it would soon totally replace the standard Nolva / Clomid protocol.
It was praised for its effectiveness and lack of sides compared to the above mentionned drugs.

Paying a great attention to the extensive knowledge that one can find on this board, I did all the PCTs of my 3 cycles with Toremifene only.
I've never done very long or harsh cycles, but all my PCTs where a breeze, I didn't feel any kind of crash, depression, etc...whatsoever and always kept a solid 70-80% of my gains, I did some recent bloodworks confirming my 100% recovery from these cycles.

Life took me away from lifting for quite a few years, so when I came back on this board I expected Clo / Nolva to be a thing of the past.
However, not only are the stickies still recommending the basic Nolva / Clomid but Toremifene is not even mentionned.
I was wondering if Torem happened to not be recommended anymore, but I still see users on this board who swear by it.

Is there any reason for this? Did Torem proved to be a poor PCT drug? Does is have sides that weren't discussed a few years ago?
Are Torem PCTs still good to go or should they include Clomifene?

Just curious about why a drug went from the-next-gen-pct-miracle-drug to complete oblivion.
 
I plan on using torem for pct next cycle. When I signed up, everybody was on a letro craze too. I was even using it. Oh well...
 
tbonexl said:
I plan on using torem for pct next cycle. When I signed up, everybody was on a letro craze too. I was even using it. Oh well...
Click to expand...

I can't compare with a Clo / Nolva PCT as I never ran one...All I can say is what I wrote in my post, it was a breeze and I didn't experience any sides from it.
However I would really enjoy the feedback of knowledgable Ology members like Austinite, Halfwit or DrDray about the product.
 
This is why I advocate Toremifene for PCT, it is a the perfect PCT drug (better HPTA restoration and 0 sides). Nolva/Clomid is old school. Just like deca only cycles. Won't be long before people realise and wake up to this fact.
 
PrinceDianabol said:
Id love to know more about it aswell... Hopefully someone will write a good article on it in the near future
Click to expand...

I would like to as well. I know staunched swears by it (torem by itself)..hopefully he'll chime in as well. Also, once we get more feedback, I think we should all follow (and advise others to follow) the wait time to PCT determined by the PCT Calculator. Totally takes the guesswork out of the equation. No more "2 weeks after last test e pin, then start PCT". We know now that that standard reco isn't a good one. Proper timing of PCT ==an effective PCT.
 
I'm really interested in this as well. In one of Clint Darden's videos he said that Torem is the best for PCT and I had always wondered why I never heard much about it on this board.
 
As much as I swear by Torem it is all based on anecdotal experiences of people I personally know who have used it for PCT (quite low, yet all succesfull and won't touch Nolva/Clomid again) as well as any report on Toremifene PCT you can find online.

I have used Clomid twice both after failed/aborted TRT attempts and Clomid gave me hell-ish depression/anxiety/mood swings, yes it did bring my testicles back up to size throughout the PCT but the sides were harsh (which is the case for a lot of people using Clomid). I also had floaties across my eyesight, fortunately no tracers; Clomid has been shown to be no good for the eyes and potential permanent damage.

If for some reason I was to ever come off TRT, I can tell you Toremifene will be part of the arsenal along with hCG (before jumping onto Torem) in my PCT. I have faith in it doing me good then. The evidence points to it being superior to Nolva/Clomid combined at restoring the HPTA AND causing no sides. Perfect PCT drug, you have to be silly to be aware/have access to Torem and still run Nolva/Clomid for PCT.

Like I said, it is a matter of time before people catch on and recogonise what Torem is compared to traditonal Nolva/Clomid for PCT. Much like in the way we went from days of no PCT, to hCG only PCT then to a SERM. Much like in the same way of using an AI to control e2 rather than a SERM. Much like the same way Deca only cycles are only for the unedcuated and test or hCG at the minimum should used as a base in all cycles. Much like in the same way a SERM like Ralox is more effective/safer to use than Letro to reverse gyno. Catch my drift?

Heres one of many promising threads on Torem for both Gyno Reversal and PCT http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/157233-tamoxifen-citrate-nolvadex-vs-toremifene-citrate-pct.html
 
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Yeah i definetly agree... The times are a-changing. Luckily for me and you biggains we came into the game at a good time when us as a community know everything we do now.

I know you love torem staunched.. And based off your posts i would definetly use it for PCT off my current cycle, apart from the face that i already have all my nolva+clomid. Ill use it all up on this cycle, but future cycles ill go with torem for sure. At the very least to experience it.

Ive only ever done nolva only pct, so this is my first run with clomid. Im hoping i wont have a hard time with sides... I dont think i will though. My body seems to be pretty resiliant when it comes to sides haha, always been one of the lucky ones.


Staunched- in another thread i think i asked you a bit about it, but now im a lil confused. Is torem actually superior in terms of HPTA restoration alone? Or just equal to clomid minus the sides?
 
If you already have the Nolva/Clomid you may as well just use it unless you know someone who wants it and get Torem instead. If you do run it, atleast you can see how much of a bitch Clomid can be. Good luck with it!

Well it seems Torem doesn't carry the sides that Clomid does and is either on par or superior than Clomid at HPTA restorating. Even if it is actually really on just par with Clomkid, it's the fact that the sides are not like Clomid and that already gives it an advantage. The way I see its just because Clomid may have restored your HPTA but you still feel like an emotional wreck means it's going to affect you in the gym and every where else, why go through that if you don't have to?

My bet is on Torem is actually stronger than Clomid, but that is not going by fact it is going by anecdotal evidence and like I said, even if it was at the least on par with Clomid the fact of not getting sides is a big, big plus.
 
Interesting thread, I start pct tonight, clomid/nolva.. second cycle (pinnin).. but have used clomid quite a few times and have never felt the emotional sides that are most common with clomid, this has been with both pharma grade clomid and UGL. Really looking foward to Austinite/Halfwit posting their thought on torem
 
apertur379 said:
Interesting thread, I start pct tonight, clomid/nolva.. second cycle (pinnin).. but have used clomid quite a few times and have never felt the emotional sides that are most common with clomid, this has been with both pharma grade clomid and UGL. Really looking foward to Austinite/Halfwit posting their thought on torem
Click to expand...

Not everyone gets the horrible depression/mood swings/anxiety from Clomid, I do personally on 50mg (pharmacy stuff BTW, anyone using more than 50mg it is not necessary to go any higher or frontload if anyone is wondering), yet I don't get any vision problems besides floaties but the guy next to me could have blury vision and tracers on just 50mg so YMMV. Most times though people experience the shit effects Clomid has on mood. If your one of the lucky ones then go ahead, but apart from the reduction in sides I still believe Torem to be superior than Clomid at restoring the HPTA.
 
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