Trenbolone and Collagen Synthesis

epoxy

Spartan
Hey I've looked at a couple of studies that show from the fact that Tren stimulates an increase in IGF and FGF, that theoretically it should promote collagen synthesis rather than diminishing collagen. Wondering what some of you guys think about this. Research and personal experiences about joint issues with Tren. I personally think a lot of the issues some people come across stem from jumping up to higher weights while on Tren, due to it's strength. I'm curious to find out more about this, as I've used NPP in my cycles to combat potential joint issues, but if it's unnecessary then perhaps I won't HAVE to use other collagen synthesis stimulating compounds in future cycles when using Tren.




Endocrinology. 1989 May;124(5):2110-7.


Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin-like growth factor I.


Thompson SH, Boxhorn LK, Kong WY, Allen RE.



Department of Animal Sciences, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721.


The potential role of satellite cells in mediating the effect of trenbolone [17 beta-hydroxyestra-4,9-11-trien-3-one (TBOH)] on skeletal muscle hypertrophy was examined. Young female Sprague-Dawley rats received TBOH injections daily for 2 weeks; growth, body composition, and the composition of selected muscles were assessed. Treated rats grew more rapidly and deposited less body lipid and more protein.

The semimembranosus muscle from treated rats was larger and had approximately 60% more DNA per muscle than muscles from control rats. The addition of trenbolone directly to the medium of cultured satellite cells did not stimulate cell proliferation, nor did it augment the stimulatory response of these cells to fibroblast growth factor (FGF) or insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I).

In contrast, satellite cells cultured from TBOH-treated rats exhibited greater proliferative responses to FGF and IGF-I than satellite cells from control rats. In addition, serum from TBOH-treated rats stimulated greater cell proliferation in satellite cell cultures than serum from control rats. These experiments suggest that one possible mechanism responsible for the ability of TBOH to stimulate skeletal muscle hypertrophy may be through enhanced proliferation and differentiation of satellite cells as a result of the increased sensitivity of these cells to IGF-I and FGF.



Sports Med. 2003;33(5):381-94.The roles of growth factors in tendon and ligament healing.


Molloy T, Wang Y, Murrell G.



Orthopaedic Research Institute, St George Hospital Campus, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia.


Tendon healing is a complex and highly-regulated process that is initiated, sustained and eventually terminated by a large number and variety of molecules. Growth factors represent one of the most important of the molecular families involved in healing, and a considerable number of studies have been undertaken in an effort to elucidate their many functions.

This review covers some of the recent investigations into the roles of five growth factors whose activities have been best characterised during tendon healing: insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), transforming growth factor beta (TGFbeta), vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF), and basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF). All five are markedly up-regulated following tendon injury and are active at multiple stages of the healing process.

IGF-I has been shown to be highly expressed during the early inflammatory phase in a number of animal tendon healing models, and appears to aid in the proliferation and migration of fibroblasts and to subsequently increase collagen production. TGFbeta is also active during inflammation, and has a variety of effects including the regulation of cellular migration and proliferation, and fibronectin binding interactions. VEGF is produced at its highest levels only after the inflammatory phase, at which time it is a powerful stimulator of angiogenesis.

PDGF is produced shortly after tendon damage and helps to stimulate the production of other growth factors, including IGF-I, and has roles in tissue remodelling.In vitro and in vivo studies have shown that bFGF is both a powerful stimulator of angiogenesis and a regulator of cellular migration and proliferation. This review also covers some of the most recent studies into the use of these molecules as therapeutic agents to increase the efficacy and efficiency of tendon and ligament healing.

Studies into the effects of the exogenous application of TGFbeta, IGF-I, PDGF and bFGF into the wound site singly and in combination have shown promise, significantly decreasing a number of parameters used to define the functional deficit of a healing tendon. Application of IGF-I has been shown to increase in the Achilles Functional Index and the breaking energy of injured rat tendon. TGFbeta and PDGF have been shown separately to increase the breaking energy of healing tendon.

Finally, application of bFGF has been shown to promote cellular proliferation and collagen synthesis in vivo.
 
Hey I've looked at a couple of studies that show from the fact that Tren stimulates an increase in IGF and FGF, that theoretically it should promote collagen synthesis rather than diminishing collagen. Wondering what some of you guys think about this. Research and personal experiences about joint issues with Tren. I personally think a lot of the issues some people come across stem from jumping up to higher weights while on Tren, due to it's strength. I'm curious to find out more about this, as I've used NPP in my cycles to combat potential joint issues, but if it's unnecessary then perhaps I won't HAVE to use other collagen synthesis stimulating compounds in future cycles when using Tren.




Endocrinology. 1989 May;124(5):2110-7.


Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin-like growth factor I.


Thompson SH, Boxhorn LK, Kong WY, Allen RE.



Department of Animal Sciences, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721.


The potential role of satellite cells in mediating the effect of trenbolone [17 beta-hydroxyestra-4,9-11-trien-3-one (TBOH)] on skeletal muscle hypertrophy was examined. Young female Sprague-Dawley rats received TBOH injections daily for 2 weeks; growth, body composition, and the composition of selected muscles were assessed. Treated rats grew more rapidly and deposited less body lipid and more protein.

The semimembranosus muscle from treated rats was larger and had approximately 60% more DNA per muscle than muscles from control rats. The addition of trenbolone directly to the medium of cultured satellite cells did not stimulate cell proliferation, nor did it augment the stimulatory response of these cells to fibroblast growth factor (FGF) or insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I).

In contrast, satellite cells cultured from TBOH-treated rats exhibited greater proliferative responses to FGF and IGF-I than satellite cells from control rats. In addition, serum from TBOH-treated rats stimulated greater cell proliferation in satellite cell cultures than serum from control rats. These experiments suggest that one possible mechanism responsible for the ability of TBOH to stimulate skeletal muscle hypertrophy may be through enhanced proliferation and differentiation of satellite cells as a result of the increased sensitivity of these cells to IGF-I and FGF.



Sports Med. 2003;33(5):381-94.The roles of growth factors in tendon and ligament healing.


Molloy T, Wang Y, Murrell G.



Orthopaedic Research Institute, St George Hospital Campus, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia.


Tendon healing is a complex and highly-regulated process that is initiated, sustained and eventually terminated by a large number and variety of molecules. Growth factors represent one of the most important of the molecular families involved in healing, and a considerable number of studies have been undertaken in an effort to elucidate their many functions.

This review covers some of the recent investigations into the roles of five growth factors whose activities have been best characterised during tendon healing: insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), transforming growth factor beta (TGFbeta), vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF), and basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF). All five are markedly up-regulated following tendon injury and are active at multiple stages of the healing process.

IGF-I has been shown to be highly expressed during the early inflammatory phase in a number of animal tendon healing models, and appears to aid in the proliferation and migration of fibroblasts and to subsequently increase collagen production. TGFbeta is also active during inflammation, and has a variety of effects including the regulation of cellular migration and proliferation, and fibronectin binding interactions. VEGF is produced at its highest levels only after the inflammatory phase, at which time it is a powerful stimulator of angiogenesis.

PDGF is produced shortly after tendon damage and helps to stimulate the production of other growth factors, including IGF-I, and has roles in tissue remodelling.In vitro and in vivo studies have shown that bFGF is both a powerful stimulator of angiogenesis and a regulator of cellular migration and proliferation. This review also covers some of the most recent studies into the use of these molecules as therapeutic agents to increase the efficacy and efficiency of tendon and ligament healing.

Studies into the effects of the exogenous application of TGFbeta, IGF-I, PDGF and bFGF into the wound site singly and in combination have shown promise, significantly decreasing a number of parameters used to define the functional deficit of a healing tendon. Application of IGF-I has been shown to increase in the Achilles Functional Index and the breaking energy of injured rat tendon. TGFbeta and PDGF have been shown separately to increase the breaking energy of healing tendon.

Finally, application of bFGF has been shown to promote cellular proliferation and collagen synthesis in vivo.

Will let you know after this cycle when I do X-rays.
 
Interesting -- I hadn't seen that before and I'm constantly looking for ways to help my knees ache less from osteoarthritis. Good info. The collagen systhesis benefits are the primary reason I've been running deca in my cycles, but if tren has similar (or better) effects that might mitigate my need to run it at low doses. My problem with deca as a joint pain relief tool is that it's not very sustainable long term. Even at low, maintenance dose levels I experience side effects that are tolerable for 10-12 weeks at a time but wouldn't want to deal with year round running it along side with my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose.

I'm currently running tren E and a low dose of deca. I'm actually a bit disappointed with the pain relief aspects at this point five weeks into my cycle. I had run the deca at 300mg EW previously and though the benefits for joint issues were significant. I'm currently running deca at 200mg and can say it has definitely been less effective at this stage than it was at 300mg EW. I would say I haven't noticed any benefits from the tren as a joint pain relief tool so far.
 
i found while on tren i had more joint and body aches then normal. so as for a study on this, it very well may make but so long as you are not as avtive as we are.
i found when i took my rest days i would feel beter but to stay this way i had to incorp NPP. the 3 that i know that work are deca eq and npp. these are the omly ones that have done it for me.
 
I wouldnt think Tren would have "better" effects. The lubrication from Deca is the main thing that keeps me going on the heavier lifts. Even if Tren was to increase IGF and promote the building of collagen, it still wouldn't lube the joints up like Nandrolone does. This is why I use it as a staple in my cycles still. But it's nice to see that Trenbolone isn't actually worsening the situation. My most current cycle that starts today, I will be using Need2's joint repair stack with his Skeletal balm on my shoulders and elbows pre-workout. I'm interested to see how I respond to it.
 
high androgenic druggs are worse for tendons, ligaments, and joint healing.

in fact you can see than middle androgenic hormone give a good response to heal some injury, but in a specific treatment.

anavar and primo are the best for this.

deca due the lubrification is liked for sore tendons to.

recently StonecoldNTO posted a thread about Proclogen I II III by hormone.

deca was at 240% at 3mg/kg and per week of production of pro-collagen.

primo was at 180%

boldenone was at 340% at the same dosage.

but these are only studys... i did EQ 600mg week but i got a injury to left shoulder while on cycle, cause lake of stretch before working-out.

i was doing tren in this cycle at 400mg per week.

the whole thing makes me think than high supressive drugs are always wicked for tendons flexibility and ligament.

one more thing, tendons, ligaments, need oestrogen to be constantly maintained on a good way.

tren-dbol-aromasin should be the worst combo ever for tendons. while all together let you with 0% or so level of oestrogen.
 
Hello, I am also searching to know what the difference is between Gelatin and Hydrolyzed Collagen powder? I also want to know more on ingredients use in it.

collagen
 
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