TRT with 20 years - cautious about hcg/hmg

[holark]

Hello to all.

I am 20 years old, and I am going to get TRT within the next 2 weeks. Not due to secondary or primary hypogonadism. My values are quite fine .

I took Finasterid ( 1mg) against hairloss for two years and developed some tissue changes in the penis ( e.g. Fibrosis, aptopsis of smooth muscles.) It was horrible to find a doctor who could even find the problem, but after visiting 9 of them I found one - he is specialized on men's health especially erectyle disfunction. He developed a therapy to fight this symptoms, which include a Testosterone Replacement Therapy for at least 6 months.. I am going to get

Nebido 1000mg every 4 weeks
hcg 1500 3 times a week
hmg 150 iU 3 times a week.

I am a bit anxious regarding the high dose of hcg, regarding leydig cell desensitization . And I've no idea if the hmg dose is to high. But I already lost size of my balls, which means my balls are shrunk already.

What's your opinion ? I'd like to lower the hcg to 500 iU 3 times a week.

Do you think I get an advantage from the testo regarding my training ?

My current testo value is 580 ng/dl. ( range 250-1100)

Thanks for the answers.

Best regards

 

[Mprtz]

I think this would be more aptly termed testosterone therapy rather than replacement. Sounds a little risky. I don't know about the wisdom of using such a long ester if it's going to be a tempory thing. It might take 2 months just to start feeling the effects.
I agree the hcg dose seems unneccessarily high, but then you're kind of in uncharted territory anyway with regard to this treatment.

You'll likely see advantages to your training, but it could take a while. Make sure you understand the risks that you may not recover your pre treatment levels, which would really suck at your young age.

 

[Megatron28]

What are the symptoms that this treatment is supposed to be fighting? Or is it supposed to reverse the tissue changes you experienced?

 

[holark]

What are the symptoms that this treatment is supposed to be fighting? Or is it supposed to reverse the tissue changes you experienced?

It is supposed to reverse the tissue changes. Which is proven through studies.


I have to go the risk regarding I am not able to get any ( sufficient) errection even not with caverject.

The long ester is the only thing which is available for testosterone replacementin germany I think.

 

[Megatron28]

It is supposed to reverse the tissue changes. Which is proven through studies.


I have to go the risk regarding I am not able to get any ( sufficient) errection even not with caverject.

The long ester is the only thing which is available for testosterone replacementin germany I think.

If you could post links to the studies I would be interested in reading them -- although might be tough if they are in German. Thanks and good luck.

 

[Mprtz]

I'd be interested too, and I read German

 

[Alpin]

500 I.u. HCG 3 times a week?
For 1500 I.u. total a week?
Would this be considered a supra physiological "LH" signal? (Albeit if its analog)

 

[holark]

My doctor wants to start 4500 i.U a week.

1500 3 times.

I think 500 3 times a week is more appropiate...

Hopefully someone in here can give me some good advice.

Gonna deliver the studies when I find some time to search them.

 

[Megatron28]

I'd be interested too, and I read German

All the German I know came from watching Hogan's Heroes.

 

[Megatron28]

My doctor wants to start 4500 i.U a week.

1500 3 times.

I think 500 3 times a week is more appropiate...

Hopefully someone in here can give me some good advice.

Gonna deliver the studies when I find some time to search them.

What doses of HCG were proven effective in the studies?

 

[Alpin]

My doctor wants to start 4500 i.U a week.

1500 3 times.

I think 500 3 times a week is more appropiate...

Hopefully someone in here can give me some good advice.

Gonna deliver the studies when I find some time to search them.

500 I.u. 3 times a week for me takes me to 510 ng/dl TT of endogenous T. I just tested it last week after being on it for 6 weeks. Estradiol is in sweet spot as well.

 

[Alpin]

I dont know your medical history and what warrants this protocol but man 4500 I.u. a week of HCG is a lot.
I'm a mix of primary with secondary and find 1500 Iu a week more than plentiful for symptoms of low T.
I dont need really high levels for TRT. I feel ok if my estradiol is dialed in and im at least 500 ng T.
Keep in mind HCG makes other hormones as well.
If I were soley on T. I would probably need to be at minimum 700ng for feelings of well being.

 

[Alpin]

Did this doc give you an ai atleast for estradiol control?
Tell him good luck with this protocol.
You are in for a wild ride...imo.
Anxiety, possible depression, high b.p., are all side effects of high Estradiol.

 

[Megatron28]

I dont know your medical history and what warrants this protocol but man 4500 I.u. a week of HCG is a lot.
I'm a mix of primary with secondary and find 1500 Iu a week more than plentiful for symptoms of low T.
I dont need really high levels for TRT. I feel ok if my estradiol is dialed in and im at least 500 ng T.
Keep in mind HCG makes other hormones as well.
If I were soley on T. I would probably need to be at minimum 700ng for feelings of well being.

He isn't doing this for TRT. He is trying to correct the penile tissue changes he experienced. His doc says this is the protocol for making those corrections.

 

[Alpin]

Read my HCG blood lab thread I made yesterday.

 

[holark]

I think I explained my point not as good as I thought.

The hcg is part of the programm, but it is only part to maintain fertility. So it is for hrt. The aim of the testosterone therapy is to create supra-physiological values of Testosterone ( at most, as well as DHT)

hcg is taken to maintain fertility and make it easier to get my balls back to working after the 6 month protocol.

Other things I have to do are e.g. to do a workout with a vacuum pump, to take Sildenafil ( Viagra) or tadalafil on a daily basis and so on...

The thing I am asking for is only regarding the TRT protocol.

Do you think the hcg dose is to high ?

 

[Alpin]

I have no idea what this problem is nor am I doctor.
My main concern with this protocol is do you have an AI ?
Yes you will "create" supra physiological T levels with such a protocol, but you will also "create" supra physiological estradiol levels as well.
Whats the plan to monitor/control the estradiol as well?
I would def. Ask your doc this and if he dismisses estradiol significance....
I would tell him to go pound salt.

 

[holark]

Thanks for your answers.
I don't have an AI. I asked him, and he said we are gonna evaluate the values ( after 10 weeks.) and if necessary we are gonna add an AI.

My main concern is leydig cell desensitization.do you have any ideas about this ?

 

[Megatron28]

That is a higher hCG dose than is typically used to maintain testicle function.

Without seeing your full protocol in detail though it is hard to give you good advice. I don't get why you would need the hmg either while on HCG. HMG is crazy expensive too. Get us those studies too as I don't think any of us have ever heard of this treatment.

By the way, what is the name of the condition with your penis so we can look it up?

 

[holark]

I think I created some confusion.

I took Propecia ( Finasterid 1mg) and got erectile dysfunction. I stopped Propecia two years ago but the sides continued. My balls shrunk, my sperm volume is minimal and I cannot achieve an errection ( even not with PDE-5 inhibitors nor caverject as it turned out). The doctor I went to gave me a caverject injection to see what happens in my penis.

First thing to happen that more blood flows out of the penis than into it ( similiar to a venous leak , but treatable.) The second thing is that fibrosis occured and I developed some plaques in the penis.

It is proven that supra-physiological testosterone values and a good bloodflow can reverse penile fibrosis ( just google this, easy to find.) Second problem is the blood out/in problem - therefore I have to train with the vacuum pump . Third problem are my shrunk balls and my low sperm volume ( due to post-finasteride-syndrom).

hmg is given to see if sperm production goes up again.( and volume as well.)

I hope I cleared some points.

I am here just to ask if the testosterone protocol he is willing to do seems appropiate.

In fact the aim is to get slight supraphysiological serum levels of testosterone while getting my balls to get bigger again and to get my sperm volume up.

Seems this protocol to make sense regarding this ?

Edit :
Thats the full protocol ( as far as the drug supplementation goes )

1000mg Nebido every 4 weeks ( 1000mg Testosterone undecanoate)
1500 iU hcg every 2 days.
150 iU hmg every 2 days.
50mg Sildenafil every day for twelve months.
1g L-Arginin twice daily.
1g L-Carnitin twice dialy.

The last both seem to be kind of unnecessary, but in his opinion they don't do any damage and are helping .