What do you think about this?

[Magical]

Really great thread, guys. Thanks for bringing it 308. I just saved post #30 to my hard drive as "Halfwit's Half-Life Chart." Glad we've still got a substantial brain trust here on the forum, lol.

I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance. But your right, great thread. I cant wait to see the results 308 comes up with

 

[3J]

Half... The graph does not consider amortization. I would say it does level out alot more due to it. And that means more sides. You should have to run a strong ai

 

[halfwit]

Half... The graph does not consider amortization. I would say it does level out alot more due to it. And that means more sides. You should have to run a strong ai

There's an active decrease over the the time period shown, it's just that as it's a logarithmic (read: slow) increase/decrease it doesn't really show as it would take something like 58 days after cessation to see the full decline. Or are you referring to how the body metabolizes the drug? I do agree that the more spikes (E7D), the more parabolic the curve, which probably would lead to more side effects. Definitely agree with the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) needing to be stronger for a "spikier" dosing protocol. I can say from experience that is very true from when I went from E7D on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to E3.5D.

Or am I missing something else?

 

[XELFLEC]

The book also says it's a waste to run AAS past 8 weeks. At least from what I could read...

Well you could do eod or e3d then after 6-8 weeks switch it up to this method and might help keep the gains coming?

 

[XELFLEC]

I was hoping you weren't going to make me figure out more half life decays going past the first week haha. Admittedly I got lost trying to do it all by hand again, so I just busted out the calculator and went to town. Sorry for the rough format, but I felt I should show my work.

Note: I figured it would be best to take it out to 28 days as a month is what most docs look at when comparing blood serum saturation.

3.5D: 1: 250, 2: 166.85+250, 3: 166.85+136.31+250, 4: 166.85+136.31+111.36+250
5: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+250, 6: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+74.325+250
7: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+74.325+60.721+250 8: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+74.325+60.721+49.606+250.


E7: 1: 500, 2: 333.71+500, 3: 222.72+333.71+500, 4: 333.71+222.72+148.65+500


Totals:

E3.5D: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+74.325+60.721+49.606+250 = 940.15mg (At 28 days)
E7D: 333.71+222.72+148.65+500 = 1205.08mg (At 28 days)

Interesting. This is completely against what I figured what would happen, so I even busted out Excel to see what the story is here:

I guess I should do the math before I start typing out a reply next time. I do find it interesting that as it is a logarithmic curve, the larger doses do linger about more. This makes me wonder why we testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients feel better on E3.5D protocols instead of E7D. I get that there will be larger spikes from a less frequent dosing schedule, causing E2 spikes - but I can't help to feel that I'm still missing part of the picture here.

Still want to see more about this anabolic threshold though...

From the pm boards someone from here link your graphs.

I need to get in touch with this guy/said genius on the other board and see if he will graph NPP so we can see what is optimal. :headbang:












Another thing...injecting test once a week can probably be done up to about 750-800mg...but after that I wonder if it's more prudent to split the shots. If youre using 1200-2000mg weekly you sure as hell aren't doing that in a day..

I'm only posting here because I'm curious as well.

 

[JJamz125]

I was thinking I might try my Test @ 500 mg on mon 1 shot, and my deca @ 400 mg on wed 1 shot per week. Wonder how that would turn out.

 

[XELFLEC]

Well I have test prop and npp ready to go once my caber and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) arrive.

I'm thinking I'm gonna try this method for sure but loading up 5-6 cc all at once seems like I'm gonna be in some pain.
Maybe I'll wait to see how this thread pans out.

 

[cbman2184]

Well I have test prop and npp ready to go once my caber and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) arrive.

I'm thinking I'm gonna try this method for sure but loading up 5-6 cc all at once seems like I'm gonna be in some pain.
Maybe I'll wait to see how this thread pans out.

if you do, you should log that cycle. I would like to see the outcome of this method!

 

[kataklysum]

gotta love all the info on this board. im almost up to my 4th week on cycle. thinking of switching from 2 x 250mg test E shots to 1 x 500mg shot on the monday and play out the rest of my cycle and see how this goes.

 

[halfwit]

From the pm boards someone from here link your graphs.


I'm only posting here because I'm curious as well.

Whooooa, I never said it was optimal - just that the levels ARE higher with less frequent dosing. In fact, when I'm using over a gram of gear, I tend to inject 3x a week plus. All I did was plot the half-lives of the hormone over time due to dosing schedules. I too have no idea if there is any actual benefit aside from having a higher "spikier" testosterone level. I do know I feel better on more frequent injections, but can only speculate on how much of what bios3 suggests may be true.

For Knight9 (not sure if that was a serious question, but I'm a good sport):

Note: This is based on a half-life of 4.5days and a dose of 700mg/wk (for simplicity's sake). I'd have pasted in all the actual decays, but as it's a string of numbers that pretty much just repeats over and over except for the last, I didn't see the point.

Bon Apetit!

Edit: I just realized that I left off data labels so you can't see the actual values due to the size of the graph and proximity of each node. Here's the results after 1 month:
ED: 100+85.724+73.487+62.996+54.003+46.294+39.685+34.02+29.163+25.000+21.431+18.372+15.749+13.501+11.573+9.9213+8.5049+7.2908+6.25+5.3578+4.5929+3.9373+3.3752+2.8934+2.4803+1.8227+1.5625+1.3394 = 690.3265mg

EOD::200+146.97+108.01+79.37+58.326+42.862+31.498+23.147+17.01+12.5+9.1858+6.7504+4.9606+3.6454+2.6789 = 746.9141mg

E7D: 700+238.14+81.014+27.561+9.3761 = 1056.0911mg (yea, I can't see injecting 7ml of NPP at once either, it was for funsies)

 

[theblitzkrieg]

My testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is 250mg sustanon every three WEEKS. Got it upped to two weeks after bitching though.

 

[XELFLEC]

The other thread was talking you can do npp every 3.5 (3-4) days. Would you mind adding that to the graph? LoL

 

[halfwit]

The other thread was talking you can do npp every 3.5 (3-4) days. Would you mind adding that to the graph? LoL

Hah! I was afraid you were going to ask that. The graph is going to be off a little in terms of actual curve with a E3.5D as I would have to redo the x-axis in terms of half-days, but felt that this was close enough for a visual.

E3.5D:
350+204.14+119.07+69.449+40.507+23.626+13.78+8.0376+4.6881 = 833.2977mg

Hope this helps.

Note: These graphs are for visual purposes only. I am not stating that dosing with large doses actually provides more of a benefit over steady smaller doses by any means. I am starting to wonder if there is something to this given the fairly large differences between each dosing protocol (especially with larger esters), but would have to actually run cycles at each type of protocol and get appropriate blood work for each one as well as a log of gains to be sure. I'm sure 308power is going to be able to provide some insight into this as he mentioned he's planning on giving it a go.

My .02c

 

[XELFLEC]

Ty

 

[halfwit]

No problem.

 

[cmotted]

I was hoping you weren't going to make me figure out more half life decays going past the first week haha. Admittedly I got lost trying to do it all by hand again, so I just busted out the calculator and went to town. Sorry for the rough format, but I felt I should show my work.




Note: I figured it would be best to take it out to 28 days as a month is what most docs look at when comparing blood serum saturation.

3.5D: 1: 250, 2: 166.85+250, 3: 166.85+136.31+250, 4: 166.85+136.31+111.36+250
5: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+250, 6: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+74.325+250
7: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+74.325+60.721+250 8: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+74.325+60.721+49.606+250.


E7: 1: 500, 2: 333.71+500, 3: 222.72+333.71+500, 4: 333.71+222.72+148.65+500


Totals:

E3.5D: 166.85+136.31+111.36+90.978+74.325+60.721+49.606+250 = 940.15mg (At 28 days)
E7D: 333.71+222.72+148.65+500 = 1205.08mg (At 28 days)

Interesting. This is completely against what I figured what would happen, so I even busted out Excel to see what the story is here:

I guess I should do the math before I start typing out a reply next time. I do find it interesting that as it is a logarithmic curve, the larger doses do linger about more. This makes me wonder why we testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients feel better on E3.5D protocols instead of E7D. I get that there will be larger spikes from a less frequent dosing schedule, causing E2 spikes - but I can't help to feel that I'm still missing part of the picture here.

Still want to see more about this anabolic threshold though...

I was wondering if you would be able to chart a different scenario for me? Could you show the difference in an enanthate ester?
Could you show the difference in 300mg EOD compared to 1000mg once every 7 days of primo?
I was doing 300mg EOD and now I just switched to 1 gram every 7 days. I much appreciate it.

 

[halfwit]

I was wondering if you would be able to chart a different scenario for me? Could you show the difference in an enanthate ester?
Could you show the difference in 300mg EOD compared to 1000mg once every 7 days of primo?
I was doing 300mg EOD and now I just switched to 1 gram every 7 days. I much appreciate it.

I have about 18 hours of exam prep ahead of me, so it's going to take awhile for me to get back to doing another spreadsheet, so in the mean time I'll show you how I do it instead.

To make things easier, I would just use the calculator at HALF-LIFE CALCULATOR and choose "ending amt". You will then put in the value of 300 for beginning amount, 10.5 for half-life (enanthate), and 2 for time.

You're going to want to open a notepad or wordpad for the next part:
I write the days out like 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, etc and start filling them in like so: 1. 300, 3. 300+ 262.89 (the first value given), 5. 300+262.89+ (the next value by entering in "4"), 7. 300+262.89+(the 4 value in time)+(the value for 6 in time), etc.

You want to do this for up to 29 (roughly a month) and 28 for E7D injections.

To plot this out, just open Excel (or the free version from libreoffice) and put the days in row 1 with your values in rows 2 on down moving across the columns. Then just simply highlight the cells that you want to create a graph with, click on insert, choose scatter, and Excel will do the rest for you. To keep any math errors at a minimum, I like to input in each cell an equals sign first so it does the math for me when adding up each individual cell for that day.

If I can get a handle on my studying tonight, I'll give it a whirl if you still need me to do it for you.

 

[kataklysum]

if you were to inject E7D on a test e cycle by the end of the cycle your blood levels would be higher then injecting E3D so this would mean waiting the standard 2 weeks after last shot to start pct wouldnt be long enough? or am i just looking into it too much...

 

[308power]

I do not cycle, so it is not a thing for me, but, I would say it would be fair to give yourself an extra week. So, three weeks after your last pin.

A lot of information is just spat back up as what your cycle outline should be. I see people state to start pct two weeks after your last shot of test e or c, yet nobody factors in the dosing protocol that was used on cycle. Takes a fair amount longer for a gram to clear than 500mgs to clear. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[kataklysum]

i used the half life calc halfwit linked to and plumbed in 10.5 in the half life column and 7 in the input time. so this would emulate doing a 500mg test e cycle injecting once per week. ive searched online on how many mg of test a male produces in a day and it seems its around 5 - 7mg which would be 35mg - 49mg (i dont know how accurate this is maybe someone knowledgeable can correct me)

so assuming average normal test production a week would be 42mg. going by the weeks below it would take till week 20 which is 8 weeks after last pin to reach "normal" levels. so pct shouldnt really be started till somewhere around 8 weeks after last pin? can someone confirm I've misconstrued these results or does it seem legit?

week 1 - 500

week 2 - 314.98 + 500

week 3 - 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 4 - 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 5 - 78.745 + 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 6 - 49.606 + 78.745 + 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 7 - 31.25 + 49.606 + 78.745 + 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 8 - 19.686 + 31.25 + 49.606 + 78.745 + 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 9 - 12.401 + 19.686 + 31.25 + 49.606 + 78.745 + 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 10 - 7.8121 + 12.401 + 19.686 + 31.25 + 49.606 + 78.745 + 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 11 - 4.9213 + 7.8121 + 12.401 + 19.686 + 31.25 + 49.606 + 78.745 + 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 12 - 3.1002 + 4.9213 + 7.8121 + 12.401 + 19.686 + 31.25 + 49.606 + 78.745 + 125.00 + 198.42 + 314.98 + 500

week 12 total = 1544.3416

week 13 total = 972.66

week 14 total = 612.74

week 15 total = 386.00

week 16 total = 243.16

week 17 total = 153.18

week 18 total = 96.497

week 19 total = 60.789

week 20 total = 38.295