Spacedet01
New member
what is the longest T3 can be taken at 25mcgs ed?
What is the longest possible time T3 can be taken?
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Spacedet01
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ready2explode
New member
There is a study out (cant get it cuz the site is down) that showed ppl misdiagnosed with a thryroid disorder, high doses everday day for many years, and their thyroid bouncing back in a few weeks. I wouldnt be overly concerned. Go find nandi's recent thyroid article...its on daunte's site "Mind and Muscle" I believe its called.
I also would use such a low dose either.
I also would use such a low dose either.
ready2explode
New member
highest dose of t4 replacement i've seen is 100mcg t4 = ~25mcg t3 which would most likely be the higher limits of normal
ready2explode
New member
LOL but your testicles are...
Spacedet01
New member
Nice to see all the replys....any other vets have some opinions?? I like what I hear so far!
Drveejay11
Community Veteran
Trevdog said:
I agree with you Trevdog as I have YET to see any study that contradicts this as well!
BUT....I think a conservative approach (time on............time off) is always the safest route. Longest time ON....I would say 12 weeks should be the limit. Again...just being "precautious" here.
With doses as low as 20 mcg......."time on" CAN be done LONGER w/o fear of eventual chronic suppresion.
Trev: what have your results been bro? Curious?
i was always under the impretion that if you use for to long, your thyroid can become dependant on it and you will have to take T3 for the rest of your life. I bought some and i never took it because of the stuff i read about it, i guess i will have to keep resurcing and educate myself a little more before i add to the conversation
GOON said:
You know, I was way more harsh than I should have been. Feel free to add to the conversation any time. This particular issue just tends to ruffle my feathers a little, because the unsubstantiated myth is so widespread.
And I don't necessarily disagee with DRveejay11's cautious approach.
Results I have had - well for the first 13 weeks I was in a full time fire academy. Life was very hectic and I had little time to prepare healthy meals and could only lift on weekends. I was using some test and deca along with the T3. It has kept me from getting too fat and I am actually up about 12 lbs. since I started. I can be much leaner, but I didn't get a real chance to bulk up this winter so I'm trying to gain some more weight before I think about cutting up.
I do like to use a small dose of T3 - say in the range of 1-30 mcg. per day, even when bulking. I may gain a bit less weight but I gain a lot less fat.
http://www.medizingeschaedigte.net/uk_trijodthyronin.html
Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte
Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte
Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte
Warning of thyroid hormone T3-Trijodthyronin/Liothyronin
- abridged version -
A detailed summary of the effects and serious damage to soft tissue and the brain, organs, blood and nerve paths and the skeleton is currently in preparation. T3 trijodthyronin can be described as a stimulant in terms of its effect. T3 trijodthyronin substitution causes a disturbance in protein binding which blocks cell formation and prevents tissue metabolism. It is a manipulation which stretch into the realm of genetics. The result is shrinkage and mummification that is not immediately seen as weight reduction or muscle disappearance. The body parts and organs affected become stiff and hard. These “bands of steel and stones" cut every thing around them inside the body and cause not only infection, but also very painful wounds which nothing can relieve.
History of the Thyroid Hormones:
1914: Kendall achieves the pure presentation and crystallization of the thyroid hormone thyroxin (T4).
1926: Harrington discovers the constitution of thyroxin (T4).
1927: Harrington and Barger synthesize thyroxin (T4).
1952: Discovery of trijodthyronin (T3) by Gross, Pitt-Rivers and Roche, Michel and Lissitzky.
1969: Measurement of trijodthyronin (T3) in serum by Sterling.
1970: The Journal of Clinical Investigation Vol.49; Braverman/Ingbar/Sterling publish the scientific report "Conversion (T4) to Triiodothyronine (T3) in Athyreotic Human Subjects" which proves that thyroxin in converted to trijodthyronin in peripheral tissue. Since this publication, all respectable endocrinologists around the world have recognized that thyroid hormone substitution must occur using T4-thyroxin.
1974: Chopra proves peripheral regulation during conversion of thyroxin (T4) into trijodthyronin (T3).
The facts are:
Since 1952 when T3 trijodthyronin was discovered, dubious researchers have continued to continue absolutely senseless experiments which have not brought any positive results even until today. Their research is excused by dismissive, untruthful claims by pharmaceutical companies, and in recent times new human guinea pigs have been sought in the form of pharma-controlled patient groups. No pharmaceutical company producing T3 trijodthyronin or the combination drug T4 with T3 was able to provide me with an positive results for the use of T3 trijodthyronin. Existing log reports about these experiments are well hidden and kept secret. According to my knowledge, these experiments were conducted in particular in the former CSSR (Czechoslovakia), at the Research Institute for Endocrinology in Prague. On 22 June 1997, I filed suit against the “scientist“ who was involved in the experiments there and I demanded that the Attorney General bring the related documentation under safekeeping. T3 trijodhyronin was officially approved in the Czech Republic only in 1992. The Czech Society of Physicians blocked my suit and Attorney General allowed the senseless experiments to continue, which caused serious harm and death.
There are dubious presentations on the internet which are directly or indirectly supported by the pharmaceutical industry. The most famous site in the USA is the URL of Mary Shomon. In Germany I asked pharma companies (Henning and Merck) and private individuals (e.g. former DMF and Dr. Achim Jaeckel, Schilddrüseliga.de, Rita Leydel, Harald Rimmele etc.), who present propaganda on the internet about T3 trijodthyronin, to provide me with scientific evidence that these kind of T3 substitutions are correct. Since no one had this kind of proof, I reported this to the authorities in Germany; this was also ignored. Apparently still more people need to die first, including victims in government and law circles.
After 30 years of single T3 trijodthyronin substitution, which was administered to me as a thyroid hormone replacement in the form of revenge for non-testable T4 values, and after I had to independently study information in endocrinology, biochemistry and bio-transformation, I am in a legitimate position to publish all facts about the serious results of this procedure. The “scientists” participating in this experiment attempt to hide all documentation which incriminates them, and they are silent about the torture which they inflicted and still will inflict.
The changes which occur after a hormone switch to T4 thyroxin (with an instant effect in some cases), are without discussion sufficient proof that T3 trijodthyronin substitution is the cause of all damage to tissue, organs (including the skull and brain), blood and nerve routes and on the skeletal system. These types of damage also occurred using combination drugs (T4+T3); the effects just took longer under some circumstances, especially given the overall condition of health. Only T4 thyroxin can guarantee the proper tissue metabolism. It is the conversion of T4 thyroxin within tissue which is essential to life. Without this process, the body will die from unbearable pains of torture. The levels of T4 thyroxin substitution must be determined slowly and carefully: too much T4 can also cause damage and block the conversion into T3.
Jana M. Vydra
jmv@gmx.net
Up
Criminal indictment addressed: Minicipal Court in Prague, Czech Republic, ENGLISH:
click here
Criminal indictment versus Switzerland, language Germany:
- click here -
Complaint addressed to the European Commission of Human Rights (ECHR), ENGLISH:
Correpondence - click here
Complette download.ZIP - click here
Complette medical documentation, Correspondence and comment
with Analyse writer Jana M. Vydra, ENGLISH:
- click here: uk_giese_download.zip -
Selection list for language ENGLISH:
- click here -
©1998-2002 Jana M. Vydra. Medizingeschädigte - Medical Damaged. Alle Rechte vorbehalten.
Sponsored by www.special-net.de
Kontakt: jmv@gmx.net
Update:25.05.2002
Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte
Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte
Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte
Warning of thyroid hormone T3-Trijodthyronin/Liothyronin
- abridged version -
A detailed summary of the effects and serious damage to soft tissue and the brain, organs, blood and nerve paths and the skeleton is currently in preparation. T3 trijodthyronin can be described as a stimulant in terms of its effect. T3 trijodthyronin substitution causes a disturbance in protein binding which blocks cell formation and prevents tissue metabolism. It is a manipulation which stretch into the realm of genetics. The result is shrinkage and mummification that is not immediately seen as weight reduction or muscle disappearance. The body parts and organs affected become stiff and hard. These “bands of steel and stones" cut every thing around them inside the body and cause not only infection, but also very painful wounds which nothing can relieve.
History of the Thyroid Hormones:
1914: Kendall achieves the pure presentation and crystallization of the thyroid hormone thyroxin (T4).
1926: Harrington discovers the constitution of thyroxin (T4).
1927: Harrington and Barger synthesize thyroxin (T4).
1952: Discovery of trijodthyronin (T3) by Gross, Pitt-Rivers and Roche, Michel and Lissitzky.
1969: Measurement of trijodthyronin (T3) in serum by Sterling.
1970: The Journal of Clinical Investigation Vol.49; Braverman/Ingbar/Sterling publish the scientific report "Conversion (T4) to Triiodothyronine (T3) in Athyreotic Human Subjects" which proves that thyroxin in converted to trijodthyronin in peripheral tissue. Since this publication, all respectable endocrinologists around the world have recognized that thyroid hormone substitution must occur using T4-thyroxin.
1974: Chopra proves peripheral regulation during conversion of thyroxin (T4) into trijodthyronin (T3).
The facts are:
Since 1952 when T3 trijodthyronin was discovered, dubious researchers have continued to continue absolutely senseless experiments which have not brought any positive results even until today. Their research is excused by dismissive, untruthful claims by pharmaceutical companies, and in recent times new human guinea pigs have been sought in the form of pharma-controlled patient groups. No pharmaceutical company producing T3 trijodthyronin or the combination drug T4 with T3 was able to provide me with an positive results for the use of T3 trijodthyronin. Existing log reports about these experiments are well hidden and kept secret. According to my knowledge, these experiments were conducted in particular in the former CSSR (Czechoslovakia), at the Research Institute for Endocrinology in Prague. On 22 June 1997, I filed suit against the “scientist“ who was involved in the experiments there and I demanded that the Attorney General bring the related documentation under safekeeping. T3 trijodhyronin was officially approved in the Czech Republic only in 1992. The Czech Society of Physicians blocked my suit and Attorney General allowed the senseless experiments to continue, which caused serious harm and death.
There are dubious presentations on the internet which are directly or indirectly supported by the pharmaceutical industry. The most famous site in the USA is the URL of Mary Shomon. In Germany I asked pharma companies (Henning and Merck) and private individuals (e.g. former DMF and Dr. Achim Jaeckel, Schilddrüseliga.de, Rita Leydel, Harald Rimmele etc.), who present propaganda on the internet about T3 trijodthyronin, to provide me with scientific evidence that these kind of T3 substitutions are correct. Since no one had this kind of proof, I reported this to the authorities in Germany; this was also ignored. Apparently still more people need to die first, including victims in government and law circles.
After 30 years of single T3 trijodthyronin substitution, which was administered to me as a thyroid hormone replacement in the form of revenge for non-testable T4 values, and after I had to independently study information in endocrinology, biochemistry and bio-transformation, I am in a legitimate position to publish all facts about the serious results of this procedure. The “scientists” participating in this experiment attempt to hide all documentation which incriminates them, and they are silent about the torture which they inflicted and still will inflict.
The changes which occur after a hormone switch to T4 thyroxin (with an instant effect in some cases), are without discussion sufficient proof that T3 trijodthyronin substitution is the cause of all damage to tissue, organs (including the skull and brain), blood and nerve routes and on the skeletal system. These types of damage also occurred using combination drugs (T4+T3); the effects just took longer under some circumstances, especially given the overall condition of health. Only T4 thyroxin can guarantee the proper tissue metabolism. It is the conversion of T4 thyroxin within tissue which is essential to life. Without this process, the body will die from unbearable pains of torture. The levels of T4 thyroxin substitution must be determined slowly and carefully: too much T4 can also cause damage and block the conversion into T3.
Jana M. Vydra
jmv@gmx.net
Up
Criminal indictment addressed: Minicipal Court in Prague, Czech Republic, ENGLISH:
click here
Criminal indictment versus Switzerland, language Germany:
- click here -
Complaint addressed to the European Commission of Human Rights (ECHR), ENGLISH:
Correpondence - click here
Complette download.ZIP - click here
Complette medical documentation, Correspondence and comment
with Analyse writer Jana M. Vydra, ENGLISH:
- click here: uk_giese_download.zip -
Selection list for language ENGLISH:
- click here -
©1998-2002 Jana M. Vydra. Medizingeschädigte - Medical Damaged. Alle Rechte vorbehalten.
Sponsored by www.special-net.de
Kontakt: jmv@gmx.net
Update:25.05.2002
Last edited:
The following is exerpted from Nandi12's article on T3 at http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/main.php?issueID=11
"Like the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, the thyroid gland is under negative feedback control. When T3 levels go up, TSH secretion is suppressed. This is the mechanism whereby exogenous thyroid hormone suppresses natural thyroid hormone production. There is a difference though between the way anabolic steroids suppress natural testosterone production and the way T3 suppresses the thyroid. With steroids, the longer and heavier the cycle is, the longer your natural testosterone is suppressed. This is not the case with exogenous thyroid hormone.
An early study that looked at thyroid function and recovery under the influence of exogenous thyroid hormone was undertaken by Greer (2). He looked at patients who were misdiagnosed as being hypothyroid and put on thyroid hormone replacement for as long as 30 years. When the medication was withdrawn, their thyroids quickly returned to normal.
Here is a remark about Greer's classic paper from a later author:
"In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine. He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days" (3)
These results have been subsequently verified in several studies.(3)(4) So contrary to what has been stated in the bodybuilding literature, there is no evidence that long term thyroid supplementation will somehow damage your thyroid gland. Nevertheless, most bodybuilders will choose to cycle their T3 (or T4 which in most cases works just as well) as part of a cutting strategy, since T3 is catabolic with respect to muscle just as it is with fat. As previously mentioned, long term T3 induced hyperthyroidism is also catabolic to bone as well as muscle.
"Like the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, the thyroid gland is under negative feedback control. When T3 levels go up, TSH secretion is suppressed. This is the mechanism whereby exogenous thyroid hormone suppresses natural thyroid hormone production. There is a difference though between the way anabolic steroids suppress natural testosterone production and the way T3 suppresses the thyroid. With steroids, the longer and heavier the cycle is, the longer your natural testosterone is suppressed. This is not the case with exogenous thyroid hormone.
An early study that looked at thyroid function and recovery under the influence of exogenous thyroid hormone was undertaken by Greer (2). He looked at patients who were misdiagnosed as being hypothyroid and put on thyroid hormone replacement for as long as 30 years. When the medication was withdrawn, their thyroids quickly returned to normal.
Here is a remark about Greer's classic paper from a later author:
"In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine. He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days" (3)
These results have been subsequently verified in several studies.(3)(4) So contrary to what has been stated in the bodybuilding literature, there is no evidence that long term thyroid supplementation will somehow damage your thyroid gland. Nevertheless, most bodybuilders will choose to cycle their T3 (or T4 which in most cases works just as well) as part of a cutting strategy, since T3 is catabolic with respect to muscle just as it is with fat. As previously mentioned, long term T3 induced hyperthyroidism is also catabolic to bone as well as muscle.
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