slobberknocker
pro powerlifter
Feli Fly said:
What's the fucking difference between mass and definition? Definition just means you have a low enough bodyfat to see the muscles!
What is the most effective Chest building exercise?
- Thread starter tyhigs
- Start date
What's the fucking difference between mass and definition? Definition just means you have a low enough bodyfat to see the muscles!
Beast_19_301
Mc deal meal special
ya slobber is right. Your not going to get defintion doing a certain excercise. A diet and cardio will get you defintion(dropping bodyfat).
My own opion if you do dips do them, wide grip. Since that isn't a option i'm going to say dumbell bench. I think the add more mass to the pecs then barbell. At least for me.
My own opion if you do dips do them, wide grip. Since that isn't a option i'm going to say dumbell bench. I think the add more mass to the pecs then barbell. At least for me.
DEVILtrainer666
New member
LOL!!!tad69 said:
captain wacky
90 miles from home
A-rod, Fancy seeing you here....did you come to fight with crazy mike here to 
Beast_19_301
Mc deal meal special
A-rod nice too see you crossover
Feli Fly
New member
Ohhhh... I don't know, what is the difference between a PL workout and a BB one?slobberknocker said:
Mass is size, the pure massiveness of the muscles... definition is how they look and how balanced they are (striations, texture, vascularity)... those two are the reason there is "contest" and "off-season" weights...
...and besides, I just tend to think comp BBers and IFBB pros have some idea of what works
:"One of the things I really love to add to get a little definition in the upper chest is low-pulley cable crossovers. Lovely variation that is fun to do. Guarantee you not many people in your gym use it, but since I started everybody at my gym has been doing them."
-Peter "Big Cat" Van Mol (you might have heard of him)
"Cable Crossover: This is a great if not the best exercise for definition and striations in the chest."
-James Sadek (Mr. Teenage Australia 2002)
"I personally feel upper pec development is very important for a bodybuilder.... I concentrate more on the incline bench that I do the flat bench... flat bench is much better for lower pec development than the decline."
-Jay Cutler (I think you know)
"I like using the flat dumbbells [press] to isolate the chest and build more mass."
-Mike Francois (better know)
"In conclusion, most of could benefit greatly by just depending on the flat bench to gain mass in the upper and lower pecs. However, you must custom tailor your training to meet specific goals."
-Tom McCullough MEd., MSS (has trained a few pros and written a lil bit in his day)
Beast_19_301
Mc deal meal special
i'm glad you can isolate different parts of your chest........too bad it's bullshit!!!!!!!!
jcp2
Community Veteran
Feli Fly said:
...and besides, I just tend to think comp BBers and IFBB pros have some idea of what works
Most so called bodybuilders or whatever you call them, have no foundation whatsoever and will never have any thickness. Most guys who started working out by doing the typical one bodypart a day till failure routine, have not progressed much, will not progress much, and don't get much stronger without drugs. Most guys at the gym who are jacked seem to have been working out since they were young, and usually started out strenght training for sports or something other than bodybuilding. Now getting into ifbb pros, it is like they told you when you were a kid, don't imitate a pro baseball players swing because they are not the norm. Following what they do will lead to failure and or disapointment.
I am not nocking real bodybuilders, the guys who compete and are jacked to shit, i am more specifically talking about the guys in the gym who you would lump into this category becasue they fit nowhere else, they lift to look better.
Feli Fly
New member
Well, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you guys over something rather unimportant... I do a variety of exercises for each muscle group; we all do...
My bottom line was that I feel crossovers from various angles can really hit the chest and tax out the muscles well. They take the tris out of it and just use the ant delts to assist (and bis slightly) if you keep good form. I'm just saying that if one did 8 sets of flat bench EW on chest day one month (last couple sets to failure), and then the next month, they did they did 8 sets (last couple to fail) with cable crossovers on chest day... there is a big difference. The bench month might show more weight gain because the tris are large muscles also, but the crossovers month is when, the day after chest day, even closing a door hurts like heck because the chest is emphasized so much.
I never said you can isolate any part of the chest, I am saying that certain areas of the chest can be emphasized slightly, or that more or less (and different) supporting musculature can be allowed to assist depending on exercise selection.
I'm surprised that you guys do not feel this way, esp a-rod (unless you were joking) due to your background and the fact that you have put on a fair amount of size while natural; Most guys I know change chest routines all the time to break training plateaus (given of course that flat and incline bench and flies of some sort are always included). You know that the pec major sternal head, its clavicular head, and the pec minor all have different origins, insertions, and slightly different actions... sure, it is not as clear cut as the gastroc and soleus insetions and actions and straight leg calf raise verses seated calf raise with legs bent at 90deg, but you get the idea... While both chest muscles work synergistically, they do slightly different things.
The emphasis on the chest which cable crossovers can provide should be apparent... while standing or sitting, put your left hand on your right pec, hold your right arm out parallel to the floor and in the frontal plane, now adduct it in that coronal plane to end you with palm on the tensor fascia lata area... keep your left on the pec and now do a punching/benching motion with the right and then a DB fly motion by keeping the arm parallel to the floor and moving it anterior in the transverse plane... I think the difference is pretty apparent to me: bench and fly seem to emphasize the upper pec area more while the crossover motion seems to kick the lower pec, and the anat/physio/advice of most trainers will concur; I include multiple types of movements for that reasoning.
My bottom line was that I feel crossovers from various angles can really hit the chest and tax out the muscles well. They take the tris out of it and just use the ant delts to assist (and bis slightly) if you keep good form. I'm just saying that if one did 8 sets of flat bench EW on chest day one month (last couple sets to failure), and then the next month, they did they did 8 sets (last couple to fail) with cable crossovers on chest day... there is a big difference. The bench month might show more weight gain because the tris are large muscles also, but the crossovers month is when, the day after chest day, even closing a door hurts like heck because the chest is emphasized so much.
I never said you can isolate any part of the chest, I am saying that certain areas of the chest can be emphasized slightly, or that more or less (and different) supporting musculature can be allowed to assist depending on exercise selection.
I'm surprised that you guys do not feel this way, esp a-rod (unless you were joking) due to your background and the fact that you have put on a fair amount of size while natural; Most guys I know change chest routines all the time to break training plateaus (given of course that flat and incline bench and flies of some sort are always included). You know that the pec major sternal head, its clavicular head, and the pec minor all have different origins, insertions, and slightly different actions... sure, it is not as clear cut as the gastroc and soleus insetions and actions and straight leg calf raise verses seated calf raise with legs bent at 90deg, but you get the idea... While both chest muscles work synergistically, they do slightly different things.
The emphasis on the chest which cable crossovers can provide should be apparent... while standing or sitting, put your left hand on your right pec, hold your right arm out parallel to the floor and in the frontal plane, now adduct it in that coronal plane to end you with palm on the tensor fascia lata area... keep your left on the pec and now do a punching/benching motion with the right and then a DB fly motion by keeping the arm parallel to the floor and moving it anterior in the transverse plane... I think the difference is pretty apparent to me: bench and fly seem to emphasize the upper pec area more while the crossover motion seems to kick the lower pec, and the anat/physio/advice of most trainers will concur; I include multiple types of movements for that reasoning.
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Beast_19_301
Mc deal meal special
I think it is safe too say that what you are saying is right. I do think you can work certain areas of your musles more then others. But as far as defintion and cable crossovers thats is total BS. You sound like a veteran or a trainer. So you should know that in order too see defintion diet and cardio willl give you it.
But I would never drop bench of any sort, just too do cable crossover for a month.
But I would never drop bench of any sort, just too do cable crossover for a month.
zillamonster
New member
FLY's and pullovers!!!
Feli Fly
New member
I would not either.. like I said, most of the big guys I know play around with chest routines to keep things varied, but flat and incline press and flies are always staples for chest day...Beast_19_301 said:
I was just making the month of crossovers as an extreme example and trying to say that bench hits chest but also hits tris pretty hard too, where crossovers really smoke just the chest for me. I love the pump and the workout I feel from them. I like to do maybe 6 sets of bench and then just a couple sets of crossovers to really tax out chest at the end of the session.
Every one does bench; it is no doubt the foundation... but I think you will find that most bros who have chest as their best (or one of their best) bodyparts will tell you that they use crossovers in addition to bench.
You are 100% right that definition has a lot to do with bodyfat %, but I think cable movements like the crossover help too in that area because you get such smooth fluid resistance through the whole motion and the whole negative too.
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PowerBuilder
New member
tyhigs said:
I don't see how it would be physically possible to work your right pec more than your left on a freeweight bench press if your hands are the same distance apart and you raise both sides at the same rate. On a machine bench you could work the right more.
Beast_19_301
Mc deal meal special
I do the same thing on my chest day. I just like too do just 4 sets of cable crossover just too make my chest feel huge. Any type of flies type movement really isolates the chest.
I'm with ya on the crossovers they hit the chest like nothing else.
I'm with ya on the crossovers they hit the chest like nothing else.
