What is your definition of PIP (Post Inject Pain)? what does it mean to you?

Milton

Administrator
There are so many different definitions of PIP.
What causes it?
Did I use the wrong gauge pin?
Did I pin with the same needle that I pulled the gear out of the bottle with thus dulling the needle?
Incorrect mixtures of gear?
Did I move the needle around while pinning?
Pinned the wrong spot?

What has your experience been with this and what do you do to avoid it?
 
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Hmmmmm.... Wow what a great question this is. I have to think, there are some different causes that's for sure.

This should turn into a real good thread.

But I tell you for me, I never ever have PIP . Yea it's only the wussies and I aint no wuss.

Just gotta be tuff boys :scratchhe
 
Sorry i dont have a answer only a small rant. For a few years there has been a plague of sissys complaining my gear is no good it gives me bad pip or hows this source does it have pip? Bla bla bla man the fuck up you are sticking a needle in your body with more hormones than humanly possible to produce its gonna hurt. Too many people afraid of a little pain, learn to block that shit and train hard simple as that.
 
I thought it meant penis in pussy. Lol jk took me like 3 mins to come up with that. Luckily never had any problems pinning but I haven't used prop yet and I heard that can leave a sting...
 
one thing i can say from first hand experience over years is this .. there is a big difference between Pharma (real doc prescribed gear) and UGL gear.

I went a long time injecting only prescription gear that came from the pharmacy (dr prescribed from a vitality clinic), ran test E, test Prop, Deca, and Primo. I never had PIP (other then the first few months injecting a virgin muscle).

I've now went a long time injecting UGL gear. I get PIP all the time now. nothing bad , just a little sore for a day or two ,, but with pharma it was always smooth as butter.

the only thing that i can assume is that there is a PIP factor in regards to the oils and solvents used in the process, there is a difference between UGL and the fda approved pharmacy.
 
one thing i can say from first hand experience over years is this .. there is a big difference between Pharma (real doc prescribed gear) and UGL gear.

I went a long time injecting only prescription gear that came from the pharmacy (dr prescribed from a vitality clinic), ran test E, test Prop, Deca, and Primo. I never had PIP (other then the first few months injecting a virgin muscle).

I've now went a long time injecting UGL gear. I get PIP all the time now. nothing bad , just a little sore for a day or two ,, but with pharma it was always smooth as butter.

the only thing that i can assume is that there is a PIP factor in regards to the oils and solvents used in the process, there is a difference between UGL and the fda approved pharmacy.

Would you say that pharma test blows you up more than ugl? I am yet to use any test besides TNE that blows my mind or i am impressed. Thats why i only use test 500mg tops just a base thats the only thing i rely on yest for. But i am curious and have some fda pharma amps coming my way.
 
Nothing beats the old organon redi-jects or maybe the old Balkan gear. That shit was brutal...but being a sadist/masochist I came to enjoy it :) :) :)
 
This is a very good question, one that confounds and confuses many. There are many incorrect myths as to what the direct cause of Post Inject Pain (PIP) is, so allow me to shine some light on the subject. As a disclaimer, there are a few other things that pain at the injection site could be, but I will focus primarily on the concept of Post Inject Pain, and what people are most commonly referring to when they feel PIP. Post injection Pain is an immune response caused unnecessarily by a pathogen, in this case, the pathogen is the crystalized steroid compound in your muscle. I will clarify and put this in an easy to understand fashion.

Most people who use AAS know that some steroids have a tendency to crash, or crystalize out of solution, or the liquid that they are in. You will see crystals or sediment forming at the bottom of the vial. Testosterone propionate, t400, boldenone cypionate are the most common and notorious products that crash rather easily. Compounds crash because they supersaturated with hormone, and the hormone cannot stay dissolved in the solution, so it starts solidifying, or crashing, in the vial. High dosed products tend to crash more easily, because they are so full of the hormone that it can barely be dissolved in the liquid oil base. Test prop can crash even at 100mg, because the chemical structure of test prop does makes it not readily bond in solution, and it doesn't dissolve that well in the liquid. When you inject these oil based compounds into your muscle, they quickly begin to separate and break down. Higher dosed products, or supersaturated products such as t400, prop, or bold cyp that can barely dissolve in the liquid, will crash and crystalize right in your muscle. This forces your body into an immune response, to attack the newly formed foreign body in your muscle cause redness, swelling, and pain to the touch. It is not and infection like some people think, but your body's response to a pathogen, or foreign body in your muscle. This concept of your body attacking a superfluous amount of hormone in your body at once also causes test flu. You can get flu like symptoms, run down, unambitious, and feverish from this as well.

I have seen a lot of people call gear garbage and dirty because it causes PIP, when ironically it is quite the opposite. PIP is an indication that it has so much hormone in it that it can't be contained in solution. Bacterial infections are actually hard to get with oil based products, because oil is abiotic, and bacteria can not live in oil. This being said, The last thing I want is people running around with untreated infections because I stated this fact. Although rare, you can get an actual bacteria infection from gear made in very poor conditions with no regard for sterility, as well as bacteria can form on needles and the tops of the rubber stoppers. When you gain experience, it is easier to distinguish typical PIP from an infection or something else. It is important that if you are really in pain, and the swelling is too much and you think there is something more than PIP, there is no shame in going to a doctor. Tell the doctor exactly what you did, they are bound by the hippocratic oath and cannot disclose to anyone the reason for your visit. The problem with a doctor looking at it is, when he sees the symptoms of an infection, they take blood and check your white cell count. If it is elevated they call it an infection and give you antibiotics. Any pathogen causes a white cell count increase, even the crystallized hormone in your muscle causing the PIP increases your white cell count. Antibiotics do nothing for PIP, but the doctor will give them to you anyway. Better safe than sorry. I worked in an emergency room and saw a few times people come in I knew just had really bad PIP. The Doctors were baffled that the antibiotics they gave weren't working for this infection, and in a few days it just subsided on its own. The whole time I knew it was just PIP, and there was no bacterial infection for the antibiotics to cure.

Some people think that PIP is maybe caused by the way they inserted the needle during injection. That is not a cause of PIP, you would really need to wrench the needle around in there to cause any harm to yourself, it is actually hard to do. If you pierce directly through a vein, it may be cause for a little soreness, but it is decidedly different from PIP.

Next, I will post an talk about the differences between UGL's and Pharmaceutical labs, and ways to reduce PIP.
 
Would you say that pharma test blows you up more than ugl? I am yet to use any test besides TNE that blows my mind or i am impressed. Thats why i only use test 500mg tops just a base thats the only thing i rely on yest for. But i am curious and have some fda pharma amps coming my way.

yes , when the pharmacy sends you a bottle that says 200/mg ml , you know that its that for sure.. with ugl I feel i have to use more Ml's even though what I'm getting is supposedly dosed higher , 250mg ml.

the biggest difference though was with the Deca . I ran pharmacy a couple times a few years back , I only ran about 400mg but both the positive and negative sides with pharma came on way stronger then the deca i run now.
the only thing that comes close with the ugl deca i run , is if I front load 500+mg a week of deca, with 150 mg EOD of NPP for the first 5 weeks .. this feels about equal to the way lower does of pharma deca i've ran in the past.

^^ funny thing is though ,, even running twice as much UGL gear, with front loading other compounds on top of it . its still WAY cheaper then getting it prescribed through a vitality clinic (a couple bottles of pharma deca is a car payment).
another big perk for the prescription gear though (apart from its potency) is if you travel you can bring it with you in a doctor prescribed bottle and your 100% legit.
 
The question has arose about the difference between pharmaceutical anabolic steroids and UGL steroids. With Pharmaceutical brands, you will be surprised to know that it is not that much different from a very good UGL. I know we have this image in our heads that it is made in these all metal factories with shiny metal vats and people walking around in hazmat suits with not even a spec of dust in the place. It is not actually like that. Pharmaceutical brands have to find suppliers for raw materials just like any other manufacturing company, and some are better than others. Pharmaceutical companies have it easier with legalities, and they have researched and proven suppliers, so there is a high percent chance of purity. Pharm grade uses the same oils and solvents as UGL's, and the process is similar. Pharmaceutical companies make exceedingly larger volumes, and have exact temperatures and heat times perfected, and have the utmost regard for sterility, but so do good UGL's. If a UGL sources well, they can find suppliers with very potent powders just like pharmaceutical brands. I have had a UGL brand that I would pit against pharmacy grade gear any day of the week. With Pharmaceutical gear, you are pretty much guaranteed it is high quality, with UGL's, you will have to shop around to find a good one. Once you find a good UGL, the quality is close to pharmaceutical grade and the price is so much lower that there is no question that UGL gear has the better market value.
The main reason Pharmacy grade seems to be a more smooth injection with no PIP is because pharmaceutical grade is dosed lower. It is generally testosterone cypionate 200mg/ml, or testosterone propionate 50mg/ml. The lower the amount of hormone in the solution, the more smooth the injection will feel. UGL's are trying to give the market what it wants; the most bang for your buck, higher doses means less frequent injections and less voluminous injections. Pharmacies are catering to what doses doctors think is prudent, while UGL's cater to what the people want, a 1ml shot that turns them into a hulk in a day. With the higher doses will come some post injection pain. I remember back over 10 years ago, first we were paying way way more than people do now for this stuff, and, If my sust or prop didn't hurt, I got worried because if it didn't hurt it meant it was fake. I loved the pain, I loved not being able to tie my own shoes or sit in my car because my glute hurt so bad. The more it hurt the more I was happy because I had some good shit. Anyone Remember the original Denkal T-400? Oh man, you take that and you were immobile for days! Good times.
With all of this I digress.... Let's come up with some ways to ameliorate the PIP, because it can get annoying and it is so much better assuage the impending pain from bad Post Injection Pain:

- dilute the painful compound with another less painful compound. IF you are taking a painful T-400, and you are also taking deca, or EQ, tren, or something not known to be painful, mix the two in the same syringe. This will dilute the painful product making it less apt to crystallize in your muscle, hence, causing less post injection pain.

- If you are just taking t400, and you can't dilute, but the PIP is too much, try taking less volume at once, with more frequent injections. So, if you are taking 1ml of t400 every 4 days, try taking .5ml every two days instead. Taking a lower dose at a time will also help with PIP.

- This method is best if all else fails, and has worked in every case I have seen. Mix in grape seed oil in the syringe with the painful product at a 1:1 ratio. If you are taking 1ml of t400 and it hurts too much, mix in 1ml of grape seed oil into the syringe with the t400. This will dilute the t400, making it much less apt to crystalize in your muscle, and will almost eliminate the Post Injection Pain.
 
The first cycle I ever ran was sust pharmacy grade
It felt like Mike Tyson had punched me in the quad the next day good times
 
I always get it the first pin or two when starting a new cycle. It definitely makes a difference when you pin a new muscle too. If it last more than a day or two, there are two possibilities. Your gear sucks or you are a pansy.

PS: NEVER use the same pin that you drawn from to poke yourself. The needle will be dull and have more potential to be unsanitized thus risking the possibility of PIP. If you can't afford another pin, give plasma and order more. ;)
 
I always get it the first pin or two when starting a new cycle. It definitely makes a difference when you pin a new muscle too. If it last more than a day or two, there are two possibilities. Your gear sucks or you are a pansy.

PS: NEVER use the same pin that you drawn from to poke yourself. The needle will be dull and have more potential to be unsanitized thus risking the possibility of PIP. If you can't afford another pin, give plasma and order more. ;)

Yeah your right it amazing how blunt they get from just drawing from the vial
I get all my pins from the cattle and horse stock feed shop I've gotten a few weird looks haha buy em in bulk saves you a fair bit of cash box of 150 syringes and 150 tips cost me about 90 Aussie dollars
 
I remember when I inject myself on the same spot, and believe me I couldn't sit down for 3 days, but after that I feel no pain from that day on. I heard it might be the toxicity of the substance, but i don't believe it lol.
 
I remember when I inject myself on the same spot, and believe me I couldn't sit down for 3 days, but after that I feel no pain from that day on. I heard it might be the toxicity of the substance, but i don't believe it lol.
It really does depend on how your body reacts to the injection. As BigSwoleP mentioned, pinning new muscle will is more likely to yield PIP. It is based on your bodies reaction to the major uptake of hormone. Your body sees this huge uptake as a foreign body causing an immune response, hence, redness, swelling, pain at injection site, flu-like symptoms, feverish, run down. The more frequently you inject, your body can become used to this uptake of the hormone, and less of a immune response will be triggered. That is why sometimes the first pin hurts the most, or you don't feel the PIP like you did your first few cycles, your body becomes used to the hormone and doesn't trigger such an elevated immune response.

Ultimately, it depends on how your body reacts to each injection, however. I have injected half a bottle just fine, and then one injection midway through the bottle causes immense PIP. For some reason, your body just triggers a larger immune response to some injections over others. As BigSwoleP stated though, there is a higher percent chance of PIP in new muscle, or as Mucleaddict09 stated, with the first few injections.
 
personally only injectiong primo and test ( and some winny ) so far and only having pinned quads ( becouse of easy reach ) i feel almost everytime nothing...at first. than i have some very tollerable but persistent pain when i move for the next two days or so very localized in the spot of the injection , the kind of pain is similar to moderate muscle sorenes only very localized. no redness, no swoleness, nothing else at all. in short nothing to write home about, it does not prevent me from trainingor doing anything else. i hear pain wise, primo should be one of the worse compounds pip wise and same applies for quads as an injection site, but if that's the case i assume i would not feell a thing when using other stuff. to me this is really a non issue. it might just be me tough
 
Yes sir. the bottom line here, is that just like every thing else, everyone is different when it comes to PIP. It depends oh how your body reacts to the hormone. I have seen some people get really bad PIP off of test enanthate. I have seen some that fell nothing from really potent T-400 that was causing massive PIP with everyone else. Everyone is different, and if you feel no debilitating PIP, then continue as you have been. If you are really feeling the PIP sometimes and it really gets in the way of your life, we can find ways to assuage the pain so you can continue to enjoy and benefit from your cycle.
 
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