will I keep my gains from my first cycle???

[G-Unit_1]

week 1-12: 500mg/week test e
week 1-4: 20mg/day dbol

I'm on my 10th week, I'v gained around 10-12kg. I would like to know if I will keep these gains once I have finished the cycle and the post cycle therapy (pct) (providing I keep my calories up (4000ish), and keep my training short and intense), for atlest until my next cycle (which wouldn't be for atleast another 10-12 weeks)???

I only ask, because I just saw on another site (i don't know if it was a bunch of bull or what) which kinda said that test e and dbol aren't great for gain keeping.

 

[Rosco FleX]

First of all...general rule of thumb for first cycle is to do it with Test alone. IMO i wouldn't stack any other AAS until you've got quite a few SUCCESSFUL cycles under your belt. For you 2nd cycle i would recommend a Test E only cycle at 500mg/wk(or you can up the dose a bit to about 600mg/wk or so and play around to see which dose your body prefers)

Second of all...general rule of thumb for time off is TIME ON CYCLE + post cycle therapy (pct) to fully recover.

You can keep the majority of your gains if you post cycle therapy (pct) properly and maintain a steady diet and exercise routine. Keep in mind you need to be consuming more carbs and protein than your body burns for energy to maintain size and prevent muscle wasting.

P.S.- post cycle therapy (pct) start time for Test E is 14 days after last injection.

 

[G-Unit_1]

thank you for that. I didn't know about only using 1 compound, I thought dbol for the first 4 weeks was used to kick start the cycle. I'll just stick to test next time

 

[Rosco FleX]

thank you for that. I didn't know about only using 1 compound, I thought dbol for the first 4 weeks was used to kick start the cycle. I'll just stick to test next time

This is common, but get a few test only cycles under your belt first. This way you can gain first hand experience on cycling before you start to stack.

 

[Rosco FleX]

I only ask, because I just saw on another site (i don't know if it was a bunch of bull or what) which kinda said that test e and dbol aren't great for gain keeping.

Im sure this statement was made due to this person losing the bloat and/or water retention from dbol.

 

[Rosco FleX]

Another thing, get blood work done at the beginning/mid/end of a cycle to see where your estrogen levels stand. Many people do not use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for test only cycles, but that doesn't necessarily mean YOU don't need it. You want to regulate your estrogen levels during cycle and pct...not too low, not too high. By doing so, you can suppress water retention, bloat and keep the sides down.

Research a bit more on AI's, SERM's and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and their relation to cycling and/or PCT.

 

[MrMitcheyBoy]

thank you for that. I didn't know about only using 1 compound, I thought dbol for the first 4 weeks was used to kick start the cycle. I'll just stick to test next time

I would just use dbol again because you didn't react to it this time so you know your G2G. The reason they say not to stack is so you can see if you get a bad reaction off of what your taking so if your taking 2 things at once your not not going to know what is causing the problem. 1 of the vets will probably correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Rosco FleX]

I also preach the test only general rule of thumb because all the risks are heightened when you throw other compounds into the equation. You want and need to be 100% experienced with dosing/OCT/PCT/proper time off before you start stacking compounds.

Of course I understand you're going to do whatever you want...but I would recommend this for your 2nd and 3rd cycles...

Cycle #2
Week 1-12: 500mg/wk Test E
Week 4-13: 8mg/ED Aromasin*
Week 3-12: 250iu/E3D HCG**
Week 14-18: PCT-- 12.5mg/ED Aromasin, and Nolvadex(40/40/20/20/20)

*8mg is a good low dose to start with, this way you dont overkill it and you can make adjustments if needed.

**Once again, 250iu is a good dose to start with. You can make adjustments if needed but dont exceed 500iu/E3D.

Cycle #3
Week 1-12: 650mg/wk Test E
Week 1-2&13-14: 150mg/EoD Test P*
Week 4-14: 8mg/ED Aromasin
Week 3-14: 250iu/E3D HCG**
!!3 days after last Test P injection!!: PCT-12.5mg/ED Aromasin, and Nolvadex(40/40/20/20/20)***

*Test P is used in the beginning/end of this cycle to kick start it and to taper off to begin PCT earlier. Remember, Test P is taken Week 1-2: 150mg/EoD, and then again Week 13-14: 150mg/EoD

**Quit taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) along with your last Test P injection. You will need 3-4 days for it to clear.

***PCT is 5 weeks, and take the proper time off before beginning a new cycle.

 

[Rosco FleX]

Ill edit, if needed, later...got errands to run!

 

[MrMitcheyBoy]

I also preach the test only general rule of thumb because all the risks are heightened when you throw other compounds into the equation. You want and need to be 100% experienced with dosing/OCT/PCT/proper time off before you start stacking compounds.

Of course I understand you're going to do whatever you want...but I would recommend this for your 2nd and 3rd cycles...

Cycle #2
Week 1-12: 500mg/wk Test E
Week 4-13: 8mg/ED Aromasin*
Week 3-12: 250iu/E3D HCG**
Week 14-18: PCT-- 12.5mg/ED Aromasin, and Nolvadex(40/40/20/20/20)

*8mg is a good low dose to start with, this way you dont overkill it and you can make adjustments if needed.

**Once again, 250iu is a good dose to start with. You can make adjustments if needed but dont exceed 500iu/E3D.

Cycle #3
Week 1-12: 650mg/wk Test E
Week 1-2&13-14: 150mg/EoD Test P*
Week 4-14: 8mg/ED Aromasin
Week 3-14: 250iu/E3D HCG**
!!3 days after last Test P injection!!: PCT-12.5mg/ED Aromasin, and Nolvadex(40/40/20/20/20)***

*Test P is used in the beginning/end of this cycle to kick start it and to taper off to begin PCT earlier. Remember, Test P is taken Week 1-2: 150mg/EoD, and then again Week 13-14: 150mg/EoD

**Quit taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) along with your last Test P injection. You will need 3-4 days for it to clear.

***PCT is 5 weeks, and take the proper time off before beginning a new cycle.

This is some sound advice and is probably the best route to go down, but imo I don't see nothing wrong with using dbol if youve ran it before. I'm liking your 3rd cycle though, I would much prefer test p kick start than dbol any day

 

[slair]

reguardless of your cycle, im a believer that any gains made above your natural genetic potential will eventually be lost unless more exogenous drugs are introduced. Yes diet and training can effect this but, in my opinion, only slows the atrophy process which will eventually bring you back to your natural limits. Depending on drugs used/amounts/number of cycles and how far above your genetic potential you are.......this process can take weeks or years, but will happen eventually. Once again....opinion!

 

[bcopp]

reguardless of your cycle, im a believer that any gains made above your natural genetic potential will eventually be lost unless more exogenous drugs are introduced. Yes diet and training can effect this but, in my opinion, only slows the atrophy process which will eventually bring you back to your natural limits. Depending on drugs used/amounts/number of cycles and how far above your genetic potential you are.......this process can take weeks or years, but will happen eventually. Once again....opinion!

I think this is more than an opinion, I would call it a fact. I mean imagine if the IFBB pros went off AAS for a year, but kept their dieting and training perfect. They would obviously lose a lot of muscle mass. Shit the bigger guys would even lose a lot if they came off test at all. Thats kind of a bad example since they are so high above their genetic limit, but I bet even someone who is a little above their genetic limit would eventually go down in weight even if their training and diet is the same like you said.

 

[slair]

I think this is more than an opinion, I would call it a fact. I mean imagine if the IFBB pros went off AAS for a year, but kept their dieting and training perfect. They would obviously lose a lot of muscle mass. Shit the bigger guys would even lose a lot if they came off test at all. Thats kind of a bad example since they are so high above their genetic limit, but I bet even someone who is a little above their genetic limit would eventually go down in weight even if their training and diet is the same like you said.

There are a number of reasons that people believe most of the gains on steroids are "keepable". First of all, I think many of those that claim they keep gains don't really wait long enough till their next cycle to actually see the atrophy effects......they just jump back on after 3-5 months (some much sooner). They assume that whatever gains were left after pct and up to a month or two later were permanent. The reality, imo, is that those gains would have slowly come off if they had stayed clean (assuming you were over genetic potential).

Also, i think people watch the scale too much and assume that if they didnt lose much weight after post cycle therapy (pct), then gains were kept. I agree that it's important to increase calories post-cycle to maintain new gains. However, i also think that once all drugs are eliminated, your body loses that extreme anabolic/androgenic environment which can take advantage of those extra calories and use them to create hypertrophy. Imo i believe alot of people keep their calorie intake very high post cycle, and end up putting on fat and so it "seems" they kept most of their gains, judging by the scale.

To put it this way...assuming diet and training are in check before cycle, than any gains you made during your cycle were the result of increases in hormone levels. so therefore once those levels return to normal, gains will eventually be lost as they were not a result of any other influences. Won't matter how hard you train or how much you eat.


Once again...all just my opinion, and this is all assuming a person is beyond or well beyond their genetic potential when using aas.