Working out same muscle AM/PM

Cymric_Knight

New member
I have heard that some people work out the same muscle group in the AM and again in the PM. They then won't work it out until recovered. What, if any, advantage is this? The way I see it you break down the muscle in the AM and you kill the rest in the PM for total failure. Will this work for max bulking? Also would this work if on roids and given enough recovery?
 
Not a good idea......there is too little room for recovery.
Unless you are the exception.. and recovery....quickly...are on gear.?
I wouldn,t even bother...
 
Working in the AM and PM

Beg to differ. Working out in the AM and PM has worked wonders for me and many of my clients. Poliquin is a big advocate of it as well. I used to live about 30 minutes from the German border and many of those animals worked out twice a day, three days a week and made astounding gains in size and strenght.

The deal is: the morning workout facilitiates the evening work out.
The best way to do it is work each muscle once every 5 days and do 5x5 in the AM work out and 5x10 in the evening workout. You will find, contrary to what you might think, that you can lift more in the evening than you ever did before on your 10 rep maximum. Please, I understand most people's instinct is to say that it is overtraining etc. Try it and I promise you that the result will blow you away!

One thing you must keep in mind and that is that you stop 1-2 reps before failure in the morning workout. Do a maximum of 10 sets per small muscle group and 14 sets per big ones. Keep work outs at about 50 minutes or less.

This was the one way I got my arms up to 18.5 inches within three months [from 17] and I am 35 years old!!

I did the following specialization routine for my arms.
I did this Mo, Fri, Tue, Sat, Wed, etc keeping 5 days in between work out days and at least 8 hours in between AM and PM work out.

AM:
Reverse Curls 5X5
Scott Curls 5x5
Cable Curls 5x5
Decline Triceps Extensions 5x5
Dips 5x5
Wrist Curls 5x5
Shrugs [make sure you include trap work when trying to increase arm size since it can hinder arm growth if they are not stong enough]

PM:
Reverse cable Curls 4x12
Cable Curls 4x12
Incline Curls 4x12
Wide grip Barbell curls 2x12
Rope pushdowns 3x12
Machine extensions 3x12
Bench dips 4x12
Cable wrist curls 4x12
High cable row with rope for traps 4x12

The next day I did one set for triceps and one set for biceps [about 50 reps each] real light to get the blood going and combat soreness. I have some dumbells at home I use for that.

The day after that I did a full body work out consisting of compound exercises. I focussed on increasing strenght, not size.
After a day's rest it was back to the AM and PM arm workout.

This routine I rotated like this for 12 times [60 days] and added over and inch to my arms, again, at the tender age of 35.

I have since then added an inch to my forarms and my calves by doing a specialization program just like this for these muscle groups.

I now have my sights set on a 20 inch arm and the next three months I am going to go back to the arm program.

Please, keep an open mind about this and try it at least one week before you blast me!

Trust me, instinctive training is NOT the answer.

I know dozens of people who have made tremendous gaines working out this way!

Good luck
 
Sure looks pretty potent to me and maybe worth a shot but how the hell do you find the time, its not an excuse but most work 8-10hrs aday and to fit it all in would be some what of a challenge not only that you would have to eat like a horse to support it. But then again at what point to you draw a line on over training iam sure its there some place its been said over training results in negative gains but for you it must be working, but on the average not to sure. but if it work have at it.
 
DaddyofVincentandLogan, basically hit the nail on the head. Training 2x a day can be very beneficial, but it is a tricky equation to get right.
 
Yep, finding the time is a real bitch on this one. However, a friend of mine e-mailed me the other day and is doing the following:
he takes his two dumbells and puts most of the weight on one of them so that it weighs about 60lbs. He then curls that for 10 sets of 5, stopping 1-2 reps short of failure. He supersets this with one arm triceps extensions and alternates until both arms have had 10 sets in 30 minutes making sure not one of the sets is taken to failure.

After this he takes his protein shake, showers and takes his kids to school. At night he puts 35-40 lbs on the dumbell and does 10 sets of 10 reps also stopping 1-2 reps short of failure! and also not taking more than 30 minutes.

The only time he goes to the gym is on Wednesday and perhaps Sunday for a full body workout.

The kicker is...he added 3/4 of a inch to each arm in the last 7 weeks of doing this and hey....he is 39 years old!

I understand that many feel it is overtraining but note that none of the sets were taken to failure. No dropsets, forced reps etc. Just two very effective hard work outs a day, each less then 30 minutes.


This way he is not taking any time away from his family (he gets up 40 minutes before them so he can work out) and still shock his body into new growth.

I currently am at 18" cold and started this last Monday. I too am going to do it the way my friend is doing it since I too have two kids to take care of and can't spend too much time in the gym.

My goal is to add an inch over the next 60 days. I'll keep you guys posted.


Let me know if any of you are going to try something similar.
So far all of my clients (7) whom I have put on this gained quality size. It would be cool to see what would happen if a couple of dozen people gave it a shot.

Stay strong.
 
This is a somewhat lengthy article written by Charles Poliquin, one of the premier strenght coaches of Northern America. He explains his view on training frequency and has a short paragraph devoted on training twice a day.

It is not exactly the same as what I do or my trainers from Germany taught me but it is close. Hope this helps.





FREQUENCY OF TRAINING

by Charles Poliquin

Frequency of training is measured as the number of training sessions for a given muscle group or lift per unit of time. A certain level frequency must be given in the administration of a training stimulus in order to maintain or build upon a previous training stimulus. Optimal recovery time between training sessions is important in maximizing adaptive processes. As a rule of thumb, one would think that as the intensity of the training stimulus increases, there would be a decrease in need for training frequency.

However, in the practice of strength training in the sporting world, especially with elite athletes, there are conflicting schools of thought on training frequency. For example, Rich Weil, World Record holder in the bench press, recommended one session per week per muscle group (Weil, 1985) while at the other end of the spectrum 9 to 12 weekly sessions are common on leading successful weightlifting teams. For example, Tara Nott, America's first Olympic Gold Medalist in weightlifting has regularly squatted 9 times a week to achieve her sporting standard. Some weightlifting National Teams have done as much as 4 to 5 training sessions for the hip and knee extensors on a daily basis. And to rely on the scientific literature for an answer is rather useless, as the data is coming from untrained, unmotivated university subjects.

There are three main schools of thought on frequency:

School 1: Train three times a week. Bompa espouses that concept so did Chuck Sipes a very strong bodybuilder from the sixties. It is the most used system in the World.

School 2: Train at least 6 days a week the lift or its variations that you want to improve. Again, some very successful individuals like Mel Hennessey and Bulgarian lifters have endorsed this training concept.

School 3: Train hard, come back once you can lift more. In other words, wait for supercompensation to take place. So training frequency per muscle group is once every 3 to 10 days per lifts. Fred Hatfield is a strong proponent of this system. So was Mike MacDonald, one of the most successful bench pressers of all time. Terry Todd related to me that he would test how he felt in the bench press muscles with just using a broomstick for resistance. If it felt odd he would take an extra day off, or whatever how many offs he felt it would take.

Here are my own observations on training frequency:

Of all the loading parameters, I think training frequency is the one that is most influenced by individual genetic differences, regardless of drug use or not. I believe that it is the loading parameter that one must experiment with most to find out what works out best for them. I have seen very strong individuals get strong on once every 10 days to 10 times a week. In both extremes there where individuals using recovery agents and some not.

Frequency of training will vary the person's level of qualification. In the immediate start of strength training is definitely a must. As the person gets stronger, genetic differences become more important.

The principle of training economy has to be considered: how much time can you actually devote to training?

Provided that the training intensity and volume are challenging, a frequency of once every 5 days works for most individuals, most of the time. This is how I train 70% of my clients with appreciable results. Of course, you will here arguments like my uncle Bob bench pressed once only every equinox, and he can bench 600 lbs, or on the other side, you will not make gains unless you train at a frequency per week that represents the last 4 digits of you social security number.

The choice of training method influences recovery. For example, the more eccentric overload, the more need for recovery. Squatting 4 sets of 6 with chains is more demanding that squatting 8 sets of 3 explosively, even though the total reps are the same.

All factors being equal, for strength development, frequency is more important than it is for hypertrophy development.

If you can afford dedicating it the time, I believe that training twice a day for the same body part ( if you can afford the training time) is the system that works best. The morning workout facilitates the evening workout. Then again, I make the individual train that body part 5 days later. The trainee will train 3 days out of five twice a day for 10 days, then go on to once a day for 5 days.

You have to consider the entire training system. For example, Louie Simmons has an extremely successful system with variations of loads throughout the week. His system works well when you do it in its entirety. So you can't mix a Louie Simmons bench press cycle with a Finnish deadlifting routine and a Russian squatting system. Always give a training system a fair try only in its original design. Combining training systems can lead to failure.

Training more than 3 times a week for a improving a lift is excellent to go through a plateau. In this area, there is scientific literature to back up this concept. But there is also a need to lower training volume once every three weeks for males and every three weeks for females.

Multiple sessions a week is for individuals who want to achieve Olympic standards. In personal communications with Chinese, Bulgarian and former East German weightlifting coaches, all of them stipulated that it takes about 3 years of incremental training to develop the work tolerance for such workloads.

In summary, training frequency will be determined by your training goals, your gender, the choice of training methods, magnitude and intensity of training load and most important your genetic make-up. In other words, you have to find out what works best for you. Take for example my assistant Chad Ikei, he bench pressed a World Record of 316 lbs at a bodyweight of 112.5 lbs at age 19. At that time he was bench pressing twice a week. Later on, when he was on the US weightlifting team, he trained the hip and knee extensors at a frequency of 8 to 12 times a week and yet his best performance was 13th in the World, and was National Record holder in the snatch, clean and jerk and total.
 
I did it before, for a couple weeks. At first it seemed I was growing pretty rapidly, then suddenly it plateued off and I became weaker. It was probably just the shock of 2x a day that made me stronger at first.
 
string_bean00 said:
I did it before, for a couple weeks. At first it seemed I was growing pretty rapidly, then suddenly it plateued off and I became weaker. It was probably just the shock of 2x a day that made me stronger at first.
thats probably a good guess , it seems like anything new shocks the body into growth for a little while but the overtraining will take its toll eventually .
 
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