Young guys and TRT

[swim15]

So I am pretty young. I have cycled twice, done pct, gotten bloods and all that. So...I am toying with the idea of going on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) in the next year or two and trying to weigh pros and cons and decide if it is something I want to do.

My main question is about fertility. I could theoretically run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) into my late 20's or whenever I want to have kids and it should help. However I don't feel like injections every couple days on top of the weekly testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) injection would be very fun for a few years not to mention very costly.

That said, clomid is sometimes prescribed to men for fertility as well. Since clomid has a direct action on LH and FSH could I theoretically run it a few years into my late 20's to help with having kids? Mainly interested in this because it is cheap and easy to get.

 

[300winmag]

So I am pretty young...19 right now. I have cycled twice, done pct, gotten bloods and all that. So...I am toying with the idea of going on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) in the next year or two and trying to weigh pros and cons and decide if it is something I want to do.

My main question is about fertility. I could theoretically run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) into my late 20's or whenever I want to have kids and it should help. However I don't feel like injections every couple days on top of the weekly testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) injection would be very fun for a few years not to mention very costly.

That said, clomid is sometimes prescribed to men for fertility as well. Since clomid has a direct action on LH and FSH could I theoretically run it for 5 or 6 years into my late 20's to help with having kids? Mainly interested in this because it is cheap and easy to get.

My opinion a long road to start that young. You can restart if you want, but once you get on it, it is sort of a life time type deal. I dont mean it has to be forever as somebody will take that the wrong way, but its not like you can just stop taking it.

On top of that your going to have a hard time finding a doc to give it to you at that age which means no insurance so youll either have to go black market which is a terrible idea, or you will have to go to a clinic which is good but still an added cost.

But really doing a cycle that young is a terrible idea, and continuing on this path your asking for huge ball of wax that you might not want or see coming.

Not being a dick, but might want to think through all of this a little more.

 

[ScottyB28]

I don't think I would run clomid for 5 or 6 years. What are your levels? Do you really need TRT? I would have a kid or 2 before getting on. I'm battling that right now, trying to get the wife pregnant and I'm on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and HCG.

 

[swim15]

As far as getting it from a doc, I wouldn't be. I would be using pinnacle labs cause they are the about the only UGL that I would trust.

That said, there are quite a few cases of doctors putting guys my age on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is pretty safe so I don't feel like there would be any negative long term health consequences. I mean look at some of the pros. They started cycling at 15 (some younger) and never came off...

Clomid for 5 or 6 years isn't ideal but its better than frequent Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) injects and health wise it has been proven safe for long term use.

These are all just thoughts and I appreciate the input...I have several friends my age who blast and cruise (one is 22 the other is 18) and they never come off...plus the negative effects of hormone fluctuation can be gotten rid of with TRT.

 

[bwinn45]

Not trying to come across Mean or anything, But why in the world would a guy your age even think about wanting to try something like this ? What are your Goals? like everyone has said above once you start there is no real stopping, i would think long an hard on this before even trying it. you have many more great years ahead of you man, wait is what i would do if i was your age, i am 46 now so i need help. but you are still growing in my book,

 

[riprockwell]

First off, you can't compare yourself or anyone to the pros. They have money and top notch doctors watching them and once again, they are getting paid to be on year round theoretically speaking. Also, Arnold had heart surgery if you remember. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is not something you want to get on at your age. Period. It would be something you would regret. Right now at 18 years old, you should have higher testosterone levels unless you have gotten them checked and they are low. If they are at a decent level, you should be able to build muscle and hit all your fitness goals. There is no guarantee in this game so you hopping on TRT. The thing guys don't realize is that when you fuck with your endocrine system, you can run in to a whole other level of problems. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is great for guys who have naturally low levels of test like myself. I got on at 28 and that is considered young in my eyes but it was a big decision and I couldn't continue living like I was.

For example, you take testosterone, you will constantly have to monitor everything else. You will have to play around with your estrogen balance. I was taking Arimidex and it was making my liver enzymes really sky high so I had to switch to aromasin. There were periods where I couldn't get a hard-on while being on TRT. My blood pressure has increased so I am on meds for that now. My thyroid output slowed down to a level I was not happy with so I got on thyroid meds. I ran in to some cortisol issues after starting TRT. Those are some of the side effects. Yes, my positives outweigh the negatives but I am comparing to when my levels were that of a 100 year old man. Not someone your age who should have decent amount of test running through their body. Remember, we all will have to deal with long term consequences down the road. Some guys run cycles for too long and let that blood pressure get out of control and next thing you know, they "could" be in their 50's with kidney problems. You are young now and you feel invincible and I get that because I was like that too, but I would seriously rethink your approach. It wouldn't be worth it for you. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is something for guys who truly need it. Good luck!!

And the better question is, what are you stats? Height, weight, lifting experience, cycle experience, etc.

 

[wtgrantham]

Are you serious? Do you understand TRT? Why would a 19 year old go on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) not even Doctor prescribed? Horrible idea, cycling at your age horrible idea.

 

[lymedestroyer]

Bad Idea. Restart with a qualified doc.

 

[swim15]

Interesting to come over to this board and hear a lot of different opinions than I am used to. There are several guys on my normal board that are my age that blast and cruise with no issues, as well as guys that have been blasting and cruising for 20 or 30 years.

As far as goals, natty training will not allow me to reach them. Some of that has to do with a possibly good modeling career while I am in school.

As far as other reasons, there are several. Like I said, I have reason to believe I have pre existing low T that I have temporarily helped with the use of clomid. That said, I want to feel better all around and have a better sex life among other things.

As far as comparing yourself to the pros, I think you can. They are humans to with the same body functions (albeit they are more genetically gifted) but genetics to build muscle doesnt mean genetics to tolerate loads of hormones well. Also, the surgery that Arnold had on his heart was a birth defect and was not caused directly by steroid use.

Now...I am glad you guys are giving me your opinions cause this is a HUGE decision and one I will probably not make for a while but one I am thinking about nonetheless.

 

[Megatron28]

You are confusing cycling and trt. Cycling is for a short period of time and then you go off it to let your natural production return. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is constant. No stopping. And testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is meant to only get your T levels back to where they would be for a normal person. Not at an elevated level like are obtained when running a cycle. You have a lot of homework to do. Don't start messing around with things you don't fully understand or you will find yourself with bitch tits and in need of legitimate testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for the rest of your life. And no ability to have kids.

 

[300winmag]

Comaparing to the pros is rediculous. Thats why you see all of these atheletes dying in their 50s or killing themselves. This stuff will catch up at some point and at 19 you dont have it all figured out trust me. been there now am 29 and on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and 10 years ago I may have thought the same way. Everything doesnt work as simple as what your buddy on an internet forum is telling you. But its your life your body do what you want. But cycling or testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) isnt some proven science specially cycling. say what you want about cycling but its not good for you and is not something you cant maintain for life. Good luck but this line of thinking is quite terrible.

 

[swim15]

Alright thanks guys that's all the input I need.

Also, I know that cycling and testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is different...not that retarded. I was referring to blasting and cruising which, when you do cycle (orals/other compounds besides test or high test) is a blast. So the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is your cruise (yes I realize it is for life) and you can add in other things without having to do PCT since your hormones are coming from an exogeneous source.

All of this said I still do not think it is as detrimental is people say...I have read William Llewelly's 10th Anabolics and have also read up on some medical studies done involving varrying levels of testosterone given to guys as young as 18 for periods of twenty weeks. All the subjects had normal T levels to begin with and docs didn't see a problem with administering test for a long period of time to young people.

At a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose (125-150mg/week) you shouldn't need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (although everyone is different) but even if you do, 10mg of nolva eod or e3d would be enough...donate blood regularly to keep blood pressure down and make sure you eat clean, take fish oil, etc to keep cholesterol in check although according to all the studies in 10th Anabolics, anything close to a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose did not influence cholesterol.

And, like I said, this would not be for several more years.

 

[300winmag]

Not knocking your science or research it may be valid or invalid I dont know. But I can say a 20 week study doesnt show a whole lot. But one thing to keep in mind with all of this is the ace pain level. If you dont need testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to or even if you do, to manage all the medications, giving blood, blood test, doctor check ups, there is a level of time involved there. Plus the act of pinning, keeping supplies, if your not on insurance there is a cost it might not be high but add in a few drugs its easily a couple hundred bucks a month, which I can afford and I m sure others can. I have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for a year, and i find it to be a pain and rather not do it, but the outcome outweighs the negative so I will continue.

A few things that concern me that steroid use on any level can affect is the heart, liver, and kidneyrs. All of which once they break its game over, kidneys are probably your easiet hurddle to replace or fix, but the other two you my as well sign up with the make a wish foundation.

I am sure some of the negative side effects can be mitigated with drugs and maybe some of the negative press is overhyped, but I think one would be nieve to think that were wasnt any real negative side effects that can and will happen. Check below. Not trying to persuade you, you can do what you like, i mean some people take the attitude they have one life and going to live on the edge and to the limit, which is fine but there is a price for it. You may check the anabolic forum as more guys might have better experience as most guys in here are on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) because they need it and are concerned with long term safety.

Negative Effects of Steroids

 

[riprockwell]

Interesting to come over to this board and hear a lot of different opinions than I am used to. There are several guys on my normal board that are my age that blast and cruise with no issues, as well as guys that have been blasting and cruising for 20 or 30 years.

You say that guys your age blast and cruise with no issues. How do you know that they have no issues?? Let's be honest, 90% of the guys cycling go off how they feel and don't get regular bloodwork. I do. So I could show you what issues I have. Sure some guys could cycle 30 years and not have a problem, but again that is rare.

As far as goals, natty training will not allow me to reach them. Some of that has to do with a possibly good modeling career while I am in school.

This is why I asked your stats. What is your height, weight, lifting years, and cycle experience. Most guys who model are not big dudes and you are saying that you need steroids to take you over that. Honestly, that could be solved by just tweaking your diet and training.

As far as other reasons, there are several. Like I said, I have reason to believe I have pre existing low T that I have temporarily helped with the use of clomid. That said, I want to feel better all around and have a better sex life among other things.

Agreed. If you are not feeling good, you need to get blood tested and figure out what is going on rather than trying to play doctor yourself. Things are more complicated than they look. Trust me.

As far as comparing yourself to the pros, I think you can. They are humans to with the same body functions (albeit they are more genetically gifted) but genetics to build muscle doesnt mean genetics to tolerate loads of hormones well. Also, the surgery that Arnold had on his heart was a birth defect and was not caused directly by steroid use.

Trust me, these guys can't be on this stuff forever. Once they get off, they shrivel up. A prime example is Kevin Levrone. He was huge and then got off the gear for a long period of time and shriveled up. Was it worth it to him?? Maybe, but why put your body through all that hell so you can shrivel up to nothing when you come off the massive amounts of gear he was on?? Makes no sense.

Now...I am glad you guys are giving me your opinions cause this is a HUGE decision and one I will probably not make for a while but one I am thinking about nonetheless.

Alright thanks guys that's all the input I need.

Also, I know that cycling and testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is different...not that retarded. I was referring to blasting and cruising which, when you do cycle (orals/other compounds besides test or high test) is a blast. So the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is your cruise (yes I realize it is for life) and you can add in other things without having to do post cycle therapy (pct) since your hormones are coming from an exogeneous source.

All of this said I still do not think it is as detrimental is people say...I have read William Llewelly's 10th Anabolics and have also read up on some medical studies done involving varrying levels of testosterone given to guys as young as 18 for periods of twenty weeks. All the subjects had normal T levels to begin with and docs didn't see a problem with administering test for a long period of time to young people.

That is a study. There really hasn't been very many long term studies on testosterone done. And that is the problem, there are so many variables to look at. Someone can be a drunk their whole life (my grandpa for example) and he lived in his 80's. There are also some guys who drink and die of liver failure when they are in their 40's. Everyone is different and there are other variables involved. Again, it has a lot to do with moderation. Cycling 20-30 years is not moderation.

At a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose (125-150mg/week) you shouldn't need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (although everyone is different) but even if you do, 10mg of nolva eod or e3d would be enough...donate blood regularly to keep blood pressure down and make sure you eat clean, take fish oil, etc to keep cholesterol in check although according to all the studies in 10th Anabolics, anything close to a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose did not influence cholesterol.

Some do need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), some don't. However, you wouldn't have the need to run Nolva at all. You would run either Arimidex or Aromasin, not a SERM. Yes donating blood can help out with the blood pressure, but just like me, the testosterone raised it and that was donating blood every 57 days so donating is not the only factor. The increased androgens and estrogen balance has a lot to do with that.

And, like I said, this would not be for several more years.

That is good you are going to wait it out. Look, in order to become old and wise, we first have to be young and dumb. I started early and I regret it. I didn't know shit about taking anything. I thought I had my diet fine tuned and I was completely off. I thought I did good workouts, but I didn't. At your age, the last thing you want to do is fuck with your endocrine system. All the hormones are connected to each other so when you fuck with one, it causes other things to go out of whack. Yes, I like steroids and I use them and I cycle, but I am not sitting thinking that I am completely 100% risk free from anything bad happening. Again, give us your stats because I guarantee you that you can do a lot more naturally.

 

[Rida5d]

19 year old wants to be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) .. God help us !!

 

[swim15]

^people like this need to shut the fuck up if they are just going to clutter the post with useless shit.

Anyways...300winmag (nice name), you have good points but the main things I would disagree with are that it would only cost about $200/year to run testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or SERM included. Also, there are long term studies that have been done with testosterone (read William Llewely's 10th Anabolics-great medical literature) and they have shown that in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose range there are no statistically significant changes in life span, cholesterol, or organ function (minus your endogeneous test being shut down).

Riprockwell I will just number these to make it easier to follow.
1) The guys I know who blast and cruise do monitor their bodies with blood work and regular doc visits.

2) MANY guys stay on for 20, 30, 40+ years with no serious health issues so I do not think that the guy I personally know is an outlier (because of the hundreds if not thousands of guys he knows in high level bodybuilding/powerlifting)

3) My height is 6'1, weight 215. I haven't maxed some of my lifts for health reasons but I can rep 315 on squat, 455 on deadlift, my bench is a sad 265x2 because of a lingering sports injury to my shoulder. I know many guys with higher numbers but I am going for asthetics not lifting ability. Also, I would classify myself as an ectomorph which doesn't help strength gains. I have been training for around 6 years (some of them with very high level sports teams).

4) I have gotten private lab tests done because my docs are idiots (saw a family care and endo) and both refused to help. So I am left with treating myself...when I went in to see them I told them what was wrong, why I thought it was wrong, what I wanted to do to treat it, and they agreed I was correct but they did not feel comfortable doing it.

5) You can use Nolva to combat estro sides since it is easier on the body and has a long half life. Many of the old school guys use nolva on cycle instead of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and it is effective (especially at preventing gyno).

I track my macros very closely so I know my diet is good. I have looked at every training style in the book and low rep high weight works best as I do not get much from hypertrophy range like some guys although I do mix it in...

Again, I do appreciate the input even if I am seen as young and immature for wanting to do this.

 

[swim15]

Here is a pic of a friend who I would like to look somewhat like in terms of asthetics. He is 18 and cruising on test (he uses tren, superdrol, other AAS as well) because he had naturally low T and decided to self prescribe TRT. I said modeling because I do not have the genetics to look like Jay, Phil, or Ronnie, as most do not, but I am naturally lean with a large frame.

That said, I know some VERY genetically gifted people but none of them come close to looking like this guy in terms of asthetics. This body type is my goal and 99% of the population could not reach it without the use of gear and a large amount of the population could not even reach it with gear.

View attachment 547503

 

[Megatron28]

Swimy -- it is clear you are looking to start cycling. That's your choice to make. But why don't you hop of the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) forum and start posting on the cycling forums. Although, it seems like you have it all figured out already (we were all 19 once and we knew everything back then just like you do now). It is clear that you are not in need of Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

 

[riprockwell]

^people like this need to shut the fuck up if they are just going to clutter the post with useless shit.

Anyways...300winmag (nice name), you have good points but the main things I would disagree with are that it would only cost about $200/year to run testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or SERM included. Also, there are long term studies that have been done with testosterone (read William Llewely's 10th Anabolics-great medical literature) and they have shown that in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose range there are no statistically significant changes in life span, cholesterol, or organ function (minus your endogeneous test being shut down).

Riprockwell I will just number these to make it easier to follow.
1) The guys I know who blast and cruise do monitor their bodies with blood work and regular doc visits.

I am still going to call bullshit on this one. What do their docs say when their test levels come back high as shit from cycling?? They may tell you that they are getting this shit or maybe they have once in awhile, but it is not likely they are. Throw in the fact that a large portion of the population is stubborn as fuck and doesn't want to go to the doctor at all.

2) MANY guys stay on for 20, 30, 40+ years with no serious health issues so I do not think that the guy I personally know is an outlier (because of the hundreds if not thousands of guys he knows in high level bodybuilding/powerlifting).

Again, most people at one point in their life have health issues. What can you pin point it to?? Just because some guy on another forum has stated he has been cycling 40+ years and is healthy doesn't matter to me. Here is the difference. I have been there, done that. I speak from personal experience from myself. Is everyone different?? Yes. But I already listed my side effects that i have had to combat since being on TRT. You didn't mention those but I will say again that I have had to fix a broken dick while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), high blood pressure, estrogen issues, thyroid issues, adrenal issues, etc. Could you get on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and not have those issues?? Possibly, but being you have never been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), you don't understand how hard it is to have your hormones dialed in.

3) My height is 6'1, weight 215. I haven't maxed some of my lifts for health reasons but I can rep 315 on squat, 455 on deadlift, my bench is a sad 265x2 because of a lingering sports injury to my shoulder. I know many guys with higher numbers but I am going for asthetics not lifting ability. Also, I would classify myself as an ectomorph which doesn't help strength gains. I have been training for around 6 years (some of them with very high level sports teams).

At 6'1, 215, that is still a little on the light side. I am 5'7 215 right now. So I definitely think you could benefit from hitting up 3J in the diet forum. You could be skinnier but he has diets for all body types including ectomorphs. Your lift numbers are not that bad. However, I am sure there are some areas where you could fine tune your diet. I am not saying your diet is shit by any means, but I know there is always room for improvement.

4) I have gotten private lab tests done because my docs are idiots (saw a family care and endo) and both refused to help. So I am left with treating myself...when I went in to see them I told them what was wrong, why I thought it was wrong, what I wanted to do to treat it, and they agreed I was correct but they did not feel comfortable doing it.

Out of curiosity, what was your free test/total test and estrogen levels at?? Well, to me when someone is 18 years old and they have low T, there has to be another underlying problem somewhere which is why doctors are really hesitant to put you on any testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) regime. At that point, you will need to see a specialist and either get diagnosed with primary or secondary hypogonadism or perhaps you have some pituitary issue going on or some HPTA suppression. I would rather get to the root of the problem, rather than playing doctor and dealing with a big mess. Just my opinion.

5) You can use Nolva to combat estro sides since it is easier on the body and has a long half life. Many of the old school guys use nolva on cycle instead of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and it is effective (especially at preventing gyno).

That is what I am saying. Nolva for a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) regime is really really old school. In fact, I haven't seen a single clinic that prescribes Nolva as part of their testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) regime. There are better options such as Arimidex and Aromasin. Back in the day, I used to run Nolva with my cycles because that is all I could get at the time, but being that it is 2012, there are much better options, hence why I prefer Torem over Clomid for PCT.

I track my macros very closely so I know my diet is good. I have looked at every training style in the book and low rep high weight works best as I do not get much from hypertrophy range like some guys although I do mix it in...

Again, I do appreciate the input even if I am seen as young and immature for wanting to do this.

Bottom line is that you are going to do what you want to do. After being my age and being on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I wouldn't go that route at your age. I informed you of the issues I have had to deal with. Everybody is different. We could go back and forth on this all day saying that guys cycle for 40+ years and have no issues, but again, I disagree with that. The problem with testosterone is that it makes potential health issues hard to pin point because it is not as easy to diagnose the problem. Meaning, you have a guy who takes testosterone, then he slowly starts to get fatter and fatter and next thing you know, he gets blood tested and realizes his thyroid output is low and he is now hypothyroid. Would a doctor blame that on the testosterone?? No they wouldn't. They would say that he just became hypothyroid and prescribe him meds. However, as soon as I started test, my thyroid output decreased. Testosterone has the ability to lower thyroid output. So when you say you see studies that show no health issues, you have to look at the bigger picture and realize there are things they are not attributing to testosterone usage. Again, if you choose to go on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), that is your choice, but "you" will have to deal with the positive and negative consequences. Good luck!!