20 week bulker... need advice

L

luvbulkin12

roidrager
26 yrs old
5'11" 196 lbs 14% bf
training off and on for 9 years

this is my 3rd cycle

dbol 60mg/day weeks 1-6 (assuming liver values are ok at week 4) taking extensive liver protectant and regenerator throughout

test enanthate 500mg weeks 1-6 750mg weeks 7-20

tren enanthate 400mg weeks 5-18

possible winny/test prop or suspension combo at end of cycle leading into pct w/ Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) clomid and nolva.

I will also be pinning Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for 3-5 days every 4 weeks to get the nuts workin a bit since i will be on for so long. Maybe some tribulus inbetween aswell.

I'm looking for feedback on when to start the tren, i do plan on stopping it 2 weeks before i stop the test. Would also like feedback on using the winstrol and test propionate or suspension leading into my pct and how to do that. Also curious about what to use to counteract any possible progesterone gyno from the tren during and after coming off the tren (if necessary). Thanks guys!
 
Prami for the progesterone, take it at night though otherwise it'll make you feel pukey all day. I dont think theres any need for 60mg dbol bro, IMO you'd just be wasting an easy 10-20mg of it. Why not 40-50mg instead? Were you planning on coming off the test to start the tren? wtf you smokin bro? If thats what you meant and this is your "3rd" cycle, I'd prolly cringe and what your other cycles were like. Before you get anymore advice lets get straightend out what you meant with your tren and test e protocal
 
Why not front load with test suspension or prop and skip the Dbol?

After your last E shot use prop EOD or Suspension ED till your blood values of test e drop then start pct. I have never really bothered to do that though.

Tren E is said to have more prog. gyno occurrences so make sure you have your prami and are doing at least .25 ml a night. Bear in mind prami takes 14 days to reservoir and dosage must be built up slowly. I started my prami before my first tren shot to ensure stable blood values.
 
luvbulkin12 said:
26 yrs old
5'11" 196 lbs 14% bf
training off and on for 9 years

this is my 3rd cycle

dbol 60mg/day weeks 1-6 (assuming liver values are ok at week 4) taking extensive liver protectant and regenerator throughout

test enanthate 500mg weeks 1-6 750mg weeks 7-20

tren enanthate 400mg weeks 5-18

possible winny/test prop or suspension combo at end of cycle leading into pct w/ Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) clomid and nolva.

I will also be pinning Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for 3-5 days every 4 weeks to get the nuts workin a bit since i will be on for so long. Maybe some tribulus inbetween aswell.

I'm looking for feedback on when to start the tren, i do plan on stopping it 2 weeks before i stop the test. Would also like feedback on using the winstrol and test propionate or suspension leading into my pct and how to do that. Also curious about what to use to counteract any possible progesterone gyno from the tren during and after coming off the tren (if necessary). Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

I love long cycles. I personally wouldn't bother with the 500mg/w. Just start at 750 and use that throughout. If this is a true bulker, I would drop the Tren and use Deca, but since you wanna try Tren, I think thats a good dose. Again, i would use Ace if this is your first time using Tren, but again, your choice.

As for the HCG, use it E3D at 250iu each shot. This is keep that edgy feeling at bay much better than big bursts every so often.

Of course have your ancillaries in check, but my stance is to not use them unless you have to. I like to limit the drugs taken especially when doing long cycles.

As for the Dbol. Eh. I don't usually like orals, but they do wonders if your body likes em. As for the Prop, I would trail with that like said above. Last two weeks of your cycle add Prop in at 100mg EOD til the Enan clears, then immediately start PCT. I like Toremifene. Don't bother with all that Trib and shit. lol

Good luck.

Oh yeah. Most important thing during long cycles... as you gain LBM (unless its mostly fat and water), add cals to keep the growth up.
 
RJH90210 said:
I love long cycles. I personally wouldn't bother with the 500mg/w. Just start at 750 and use that throughout. If this is a true bulker, I would drop the Tren and use Deca, but since you wanna try Tren, I think thats a good dose. Again, i would use Ace if this is your first time using Tren, but again, your choice.

As for the HCG, use it E3D at 250iu each shot. This is keep that edgy feeling at bay much better than big bursts every so often.

Of course have your ancillaries in check, but my stance is to not use them unless you have to. I like to limit the drugs taken especially when doing long cycles.

As for the Dbol. Eh. I don't usually like orals, but they do wonders if your body likes em. As for the Prop, I would trail with that like said above. Last two weeks of your cycle add Prop in at 100mg EOD til the Enan clears, then immediately start PCT. I like Toremifene. Don't bother with all that Trib and shit. lol

Good luck.

Oh yeah. Most important thing during long cycles... as you gain LBM (unless its mostly fat and water), add cals to keep the growth up.
Click to expand...

I really like this advice. Start the Test E at 750. Drop the Dbol dosage to 50mg ED maximum. The thing with running tren e with your first go around is that if it is too much for you to handle, you are gonna be in some trouble. And while it is kind of a pain to run slow acting test with fast acting tren, it may be preferable over Tren E. Also, for a first time Tren Cycle, I would maybe drop the dosage to say 350mg/week if you insist on running the Tren E. You will still definitely make great gains, and the likelihood of experiencing unbearable sides will be lower as well.

Regardless of what you decide to do, you will definitely make great gains from this one.
 
So I forgot to mention that I am already in the middle of my 2nd week (9 lbs up already). I wanted to wait and do the test at 750 when i come off the dbol to avoid the risk of more estrogen sides. I also want my test way over tren to avoid any poor bedroom performances. The main reason im doing 60mg dbol is b/c ive got 15 mg tabs and i like atleast 30mg preworkout and need 2 more dosages during the day to keep levels up all day.

Also this isnt my first tren cycle, ive done tren ace in both of my other cycles. Never done tren e before however. Also what ancillary can i use for estrogen sides while on tren? Not sure i'll need one if i dont see any problems while running test and dbol, im just a little worried of when i bump to 750. Im pinning twice a week also to keep levels more stable and keep sides down. Ive just heard nolva is a no no while on tren. Is clomid ok or do i have to use letro or adex?

Last question.... ive heard anti progesterones can cut back on the androgenic activity of tren, hence would hinder gains from tren. If so, id like to be able to use something as needed and fast acting, instead of something that has to be built up for 14 days. What r my options here?

Thanks for everyones feedback!
 
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luvbulkin12 said:
So I forgot to mention that I am already in the middle of my 2nd week (9 lbs up already). I wanted to wait and do the test at 750 when i come off the dbol to avoid the risk of more estrogen sides. I also want my test way over tren to avoid any poor bedroom performances. The main reason im doing 60mg dbol is b/c ive got 15 mg tabs and i like atleast 30mg preworkout and need 2 more dosages during the day to keep levels up all day.
Click to expand...

60mg/d is fine to me. And I understand the logic behind waiting, i just don't think its necessary. Not a show stopper though. one question, are you prone to estogenic sides?

luvbulkin12 said:
Also this isnt my first tren cycle, ive done tren ace in both of my other cycles. Never done tren e before however. Also what ancillary can i use for estrogen sides while on tren? Not sure i'll need one if i dont see any problems while running test and dbol, im just a little worried of when i bump to 750. Im pinning twice a week also to keep levels more stable and keep sides down. Ive just heard nolva is a no no while on tren. Is clomid ok or do i have to use letro or adex?
Click to expand...

Tren doesn't aromatize so no need to worry about that. Only need for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would be if you get estro sides from the Test/Dbol.

luvbulkin12 said:
Last question.... ive heard anti progesterones can cut back on the androgenic activity of tren, hence would hinder gains from tren. If so, id like to be able to use something as needed and fast acting, instead of something that has to be built up for 14 days. What r my options here?

Thanks for everyones feedback!
Click to expand...

I would use Dostinex if you feel you need it. I've never used Prami, but i agree with the whole build up thing.

IMO the most important thing here is the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use throughout as using high doses of gear, especially when one is Tren, can make you edgy as shit. 250ius E3D is the bomb on any cycle, but certainly this one.
 
I am not prone to estrogen sides but haven't ever done 750mg.

RJH90210 said:
Tren doesn't aromatize so no need to worry about that. Only need for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would be if you get estro sides from the Test/Dbol.
Click to expand...

I definitely know tren doesnt aromatize. What I meant was (should have been more clear) while on tren and test, if i begin to develop some gyno it could potentially be from the test (estrogen) or the tren (progesterone). So, what can i take to combat estrogen at this time as ive heard never to take nolva while on tren. (not sure why that is just heard it a few times)

Ive considered bumping up the test to 750mg week right now, and if i dont see estrogen sides now while also taking 60mg dbol, I'll know that if anything happens down the road while just on tren and test that the tren will definitely be the culprit. Good idea or no? Ive been pinning 1cc twice a week, may start 1.5cc tonight. Not sure yet, need feedback. Thanks
 
Have you ran tren and test before...any issues ??
Nolv. can cause progest. side s to become more pronounced..19 nor s and all that..
Aromatase inhibitor (AI) s to combat aromat. test into estro sides..
Prami or caber to combat progest sides ..ie tren.
I salute your caution to question 750mg..did 500 affect you ???
These guy s wil keep you straight but only you wil KNOW when it goes down..
Best of luck
 
hi ive never heard of anti prolactin drugs causing lesser androgenic ability in aas. i ran prami .5mg ed with my last test/tren/mast/npp cycle and i plan on doing so again. pramipexole actually increases HGH secretion, which i consider a plus. it also has been proven to help significantly raise testosterone levels post-cycle. i take it at night, and it also helps me sleep, in conjuction with the melatonin and advil PM i take. Tren makes my sleep schedule hell so i use all the help i can get.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2203276/figure/fig04/

Here's a study that shows prami will increase plasma concentrations of GH and lower prolactin concentration.

Personally I'd also add Aromasin to curtail the extra estrogen, especially from the Dbol. Crushing estrogen alltogether isnt wise but excess estrogen is honestly not beneficial to you in any way. I always recommend an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to supress the estrogen level to a certain extent. I get drier, leaner gains this way, and the loss of water at the end of the cycle is much less dramatic.

BTW - question for you: Whats the point of the possible winny/test suspension at the end of the cycle? How long would this be for and what is your reasoning behind it? I think you're on enough gear as is..adding that at the end wouldn't do much. If you're trying to cut up at the end, you can do it with Test and Tren easily, you just drop your calories. Tren is an excellent cutting steroid. Winstrol won't add anything to the cycle that you don't already have, rather just force you into pinning every day until the end of your cycle.
 
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The short acting test and Winstrol (winny) combo are for timing my pct much more accurately. I'll run them a week or so past when I would believe the enanthate is out of my system. Makes the timing of pct alot easier, this is new to me so I dont have all the details on how to do it. Was hoping there were some experienced guys with experience on this. My boss is an IFBB pro so I'm getting alot of help from him. He just gets annoyed with all my questions and normally charges for his instruction, hence why i'm on this board :)

I have run tren and test together in both my other cycles and had no problems. I however used tren acetate from finaplix pellets so not so sure the dosage was what I thought it was, I may start with 300mg/wk of the tren e i have and see how that affects me before bumping to 400mg/wk. Still curious as to the best week to start the tren... I definitely want it running full steam right about the time I come off the dbol. Ive run 50mg dbol a day for 6 weeks in my other cycles having blood tests done aswell so I'm confident I'll get another 6 weeks of dbol this time. Would also like some feedback on starting 750mg/week of test this week in hopes that I can find out if that dosage will enduce any estrogen related gyno. That way if i get gyno while on just tren and test i'll know its the tren.
 
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bump for feedback


when should i start the tren? How long is too long to be on tren enanthate? Should I start 750mg test /wk now? I have to pin test tonight so any experienced guys that have the patience to read each of my posts in this thread and hit me back with their judgement would be awesome!
 
So apparently you're on week 2? Haven't ready everything, so maybe someone already said this...........

.......I'd start the Test E NOW. Lower your cycle to 16 weeks (I still think that's big for a 2nd cycle, but that's just MO). Test E takes like 2-3 weeks to start "working". So when you're done w/ your Dbol, you aren't gonna be getting much those next 2-3 weeks. That's why I'd start the Test now.

As for Tren, I don't know much about it, so I can't give info. I also think Tren is a bit much for a 2nd cycle.
 
hellawaits77 said:
So apparently you're on week 2? Haven't ready everything, so maybe someone already said this...........

.......I'd start the Test E NOW. Lower your cycle to 16 weeks (I still think that's big for a 2nd cycle, but that's just MO). Test E takes like 2-3 weeks to start "working". So when you're done w/ your Dbol, you aren't gonna be getting much those next 2-3 weeks. That's why I'd start the Test now.

As for Tren, I don't know much about it, so I can't give info. I also think Tren is a bit much for a 2nd cycle.
Click to expand...

he's already started the test with the Dbol, just using 500mg/w. And this is his third cycle I believe.

luvbulkin. here's my thoughts.

I would have some Aromasin and some Dostinex on hand for either sides if you get them. You have done Tren before and if you didn't get any prog-gyno sides then you should be alright. SO don't just take it in case. But def have them both on hand. Another good reason I like starting at the 750mg dose at the start is the reason you stated. If you're gonna get estro sides from the androgens, then you will know before you start the Tren, so I would start know. I would start the Tren at week 9 and run it to the end, but thats me. If anything, I would trail my cycle with Prop and Tren Ace, starting post cycle therapy (pct) as soon as the Enan clears. As for the Winstrol (winny), i hate that shit. Tren is a thousand times better, but that's my opinion.

Again, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) throughout. :D
 
Well here's a shocker you doses are way high. Drop every thing in half. More isn't better your body can use all that gear and you are just going to stress your body and and increase the negatives. You will still grow but your won't grow any more that if you used half as much
 
Thanks for the help RJH! I believe that is exactly what I will try to do. The idea behind stopping the tren enanthate 2 weeks earlier than the test was to be sure it has cleared by time I start the nolva in my pct. However using the acetate at the end would be a solution to that. The Winstrol (winny), well thats just what my supplier suggested. He has a test susp/ Winstrol (winny) combo in same vial. I can get acetate though so thats what i think i'll do. I plan on starting the tren enanthate atleast by the end of week 5. I think this would be enough time to see how the higher dose of test affects me before starting the tren. Again thanks for all your help!

As for the dosages being too high and growing from half the amount.... that may be true but im sure i will not grow as much as I want. My 2nd cycle was higher in dosage than my 1st (same gear same diet) and gained 10lbs less. I know I wont ever get the experience i did when i did my 1st cycle but If I cut my dosages in half I would not grow the way I want to. And I am NOT gonna waste a 20 week off season to find out. Plus I have alwasys seen very little sides while on gear.
 
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