25 Weeks Cycle

mikey_7777

New member
I will try this for 25 Weeks a mass cycle,you have any comments of this?(to make it more safe?)I am going to be 4 weeks on and 1 week off ,you thing that is better without a week off?. i will use milk thistle all the way.
Ingridiends:
Max 750mgSustanon,Max 80mg dianabol,Max 600mg deca,20iu slin,50mg T3

Week 1-4 on

Week 5 off

Week 6-9 on

Week 10 off

week 11-14 on

Week 15 off

Week 16-19 on

Week 20 off

Week 21-24 on

Week 25 off
 
Bimmer,

When i take a week off i still kept making gains and it would also let me get rid of some of the excess water. Also the liver gets too efficient at breaking down the stuff after the three-week mark, and apparently all it takes is a week off to disrupt this efficiency pattern.

If i doing something wrong pls say it .I can handle anything you say as advice.
 
why you takin t3? thats not for bulking. also a better 4 on 1 off is to have a coast week instead of off week. coast week is 500mg test. is the 80mg dbol daily or weekly?

here's a better bulking cycle that is guaranteed to work. 1g test/week. and 500mg tren per week. great strength gains and awesome build up of lean muscle. add arimidex at 1mg/d and water will not be a problem. add clo at 100mg/d 1 out of every thrtee weeks to keep the boys happy. and if you can swing it Winstrol (winny) at 350mg/week. this is a great stack and when you come off you will keep most of your gains. unlike dbol which you loose almost everything and quickly. do this straight thru with no on off pattern.

good luck.
 
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pullinbig,
i thing you right i saw that now.
T3 is not only for cuttin is for bulking aslo and i am going to use it with slin.80mg D-bol is for daily on max dose
 
t3 will lean you out. its the same thing as an over active thyroid. that makes you loose weight. dbol is trash unless you are competeive lifter of some type. slin makes you store fat. but hey its your money so have at it. 2 months after you come off this stack you gonna loose about 80% or better of your gains. enjoy the ride mikey. and fasten you seat belt.
 
Wow......This is a very awful plan.

Everyone is right saying that 50 mcg of T3 will not be beneficial in bulking.

T3 can be used at VERY VERY Low dose (12.5 mcg) to put your thryoid in the high normal range which is ideal for protein synthesis.

Slin should not be used for 25 weeks. And 20 IU is a fairly high daily dose.

There is not one good reason to take off 1 week in your cycle.

Taking DBol all that time is potential very harmful.

Even though your gains are going to be Very Dependent on your food intake and constinatly upping it. Your most likely going to platuea around 12 - 16 weeks.

I won't say that i don't use Very long cycles but i do things differently.
 
Dirk pretty much summed it up,dbol for that long will put you in some serious trouble especially at that dose

and since you cant even put together a basic cycle that works stay away from insulin because you will die,its that fucking simple,now get over to the anabolic board and read for the next year,and while your reading shove as much food in your body as possible and you will grow without AAS

Im in the middle of a 18week cycle but like Dirk said we do things much differently,hell this is my third cycle and 35mg a day of dbol is a high fucking dose for me

also if I sound like im being a prick I am,but you will thank me because you will not die if you listen to me and these other guys
 
DirkMoneyshot and IrishMobBoss,
Thanks for the advice ppl .


DirkMoneyshot,
I won't say that i don't use Very long cycles but i do things differently.


Can you tell me what kind of a long cycle you do?So i can understan this better.
 
pullinbig said:
t3 will lean you out. its the same thing as an over active thyroid. that makes you loose weight. dbol is trash unless you are competeive lifter of some type. slin makes you store fat. but hey its your money so have at it. 2 months after you come off this stack you gonna loose about 80% or better of your gains. enjoy the ride mikey. and fasten you seat belt.

Pullinbig, just curious why you say slin just makes you store fat? Do you mean slin makes you store fat if you not extremely careful about how and when you use it and what you eat? I have not used it yet but my research leads me to believe if you are strict enough with diet(perfect macro ratios), you can use slin to great advantages.
 
Insulin is a hormone, and therefore, a protein. Insulin is secreted by groups of cells within the pancreas called islet cells. The pancreas is an organ that sits behind the stomach and has many functions in addition to insulin production. The pancreas also produces digestive enzymes and other hormones. Carbohydrates (or sugars) are absorbed from the intestines into the bloodstream after a meal. Insulin is then secreted by the pancreas in response to this detected increase in blood sugar. Most cells of the body have insulin receptors which bind the insulin which is in the circulation. When a cell has insulin attached to its surface, the cell activates other receptors designed to absorb glucose (sugar) from the blood stream into the inside of the cell.

Without insulin, you can eat lots of food and actually be in a state of starvation since many of our cells cannot access the calories contained in the glucose very well without the action of insulin. This is why Type 1 diabetics who do not make insulin can become very ill without insulin shots. Insulin is a necessary hormone. Those who develop a deficiency of insulin must have it replaced via shots or pumps. More commonly, people will develop insulin resistance (Type 2 Diabetes) rather than a true deficiency of insulin. In this case, the levels of insulin in the blood are similar or even a little higher than in normal, non-diabetic individuals. However, many cells of Type 2 diabetics respond sluggishly to the insulin they make and therefore their cells cannot absorb the sugar molecules well. This leads to blood sugar levels which run higher than normal. Occasionally Type 2 diabetics will need insulin shots but most of the time other methods of treatment will work.

* It should be noted here that there are some tissues that do not require insulin for efficient uptake of glucose: important examples are brain and the liver. This is because these cells don't use GLUT4 for importing glucose, but rather, another transporter that is not insulin-dependent.

* Insulin stimulates the liver to store glucose in the form of glycogen. A large fraction of glucose absorbed from the small intestine is immediately taken up by hepatocytes, which convert it into the storage polymer glycogen.

Insulin has several effects in liver which stimulate glycogen synthesis. First, it activates the enzyme hexokinase, which phosphorylates glucose, trapping it within the cell. Coincidently, insulin acts to inhibit the activity of glucose-6-phosphatase. Insulin also activates several of the enzymes that are directly involved in glycogen synthesis, including phosphofructokinase and glycogen synthase. The net effect is clear: when the supply of glucose is abundant, insulin "tells" the liver to bank as much of it as possible for use later.

A well-known effect of insulin is to decrease the concentration of glucose in blood, which should make sense considering the mechanisms described above. Another important consideration is that, as blood glucose concentrations fall, insulin secretion ceases. In the absense of insulin, a bulk of the cells in the body become unable to take up glucose, and begin a switch to using alternative fuels like fatty acids for energy. Neurons, however, require a constant supply of glucose, which in the short term, is provided from glycogen reserves.

In the absense of insulin, glycogen synthesis in the liver ceases and enzymes responsible for breakdown of glycogen become active. Glycogen breakdown is stimulated not only by the absense of insulin but by the presence of glucagon, which is secreted when blood glucose levels fall below the normal range.
Insulin and Lipid Metabolism

The metabolic pathways for utilization of fats and carbohydrates are deeply and intricately intertwined. Considering insulin's profound effects on carbohydrate metabolism, it stands to reason that insulin also has important effects on lipid metabolism. Notable effects of insulin on lipid metabolism include the following:

* Insulin promotes synthesis of fatty acids in the liver. As discussed above, insulin is stimulatory to synthesis of glycogen in the liver. However, as glycogen accumulates to high levels (roughly 5% of liver mass), further synthesis is strongly suppressed.

When the liver is saturated with glycogen, any additional glucose taken up by hepatocytes is shunted into pathways leading to synthesis of fatty acids, which are exported from the liver as lipoproteins. The lipoproteins are ripped apart in the circulation, providing free fatty acids for use in other tissues, including adipocytes, which use them to synthesize triglyceride.

* Insulin inhibits breakdown of fat in adipose tissue by inhibiting the intracellular lipase that hydrolyzes triglycerides to release fatty acids.

Insulin facilitates entry of glucose into adipocytes, and within those cells, glucose can be used to synthesize glycerol. This glycerol, along with the fatty acids delivered from the liver, are used to synthesize triglyceride within the adipocyte. By these mechanisms, insulin is involved in further accumulation of triglyceride in fat cells.

From a whole body perspective, insulin has a fat-sparing effect. Not only does it drive most cells to preferentially oxidize carbohydrates instead of fatty acids for energy, insulin indirectly stimulates accumulation of fat is adipose tissue.
Other Notable Effects of Insulin

In addition to insulin's effect on entry of glucose into cells, it also stimulates the uptake of amino acids, again contributing to its overall anabolic effect. When insulin levels are low, as in the fasting state, the balance is pushed toward intracellular protein degradation.

Insulin also increases the permiability of many cells to potassium, magnesium and phosphate ions. The effect on potassium is clinically important. Insulin activates sodium-potassium ATPases in many cells, causing a flux of potassium into cells. Under certain circumstances, injection of insulin can kill patients because of its ability to acutely suppress plasma potassium concentrations.
 
now with all that said. i know a lot of guys using sln. they have all put on weight. when using slin only there are some mild/moderate strength gains.

yes if you eat with your macro nutrients in place you can use it with success. most folks dont do this though. but what i look at is the risk worth the reward. i am not a fan of thyroid meds either for the same reason. my wife has thyroid problems so I know first hand how devastating thyroid problems can be. my ex wife has a son by her second marriage with sever diabetes. i see tyhe struggles this young lad has, i dont want no part of that.

i do know that long cycles can be very sussessful without these meds. why do i know cause i been on about 2 years now other than a 5 week break one time. anti Es and clo work wonders. limiting heavy andros helps as well. mixing up hormones from time to time also helps.

one quick note on the dbol. everyone is not to prone to sides with it. i know guys been on them for well over a year with no elevated liver counts. besides even with liver values running high there are ways to get um back down without sessation of the drug. i am not a fan of dbol because of the yoyo that happens when administration is stopped.

hope by sharing my experience that some will decide to do a bit more research before venturing into something unknown. if you wanna do slin and t3 by all means have at it but just make sure you got you Is dotted and you Ts crossed first. test, tren, gh, Winstrol (winny) are one thing but slin and thyroid meds are a differnt ball game
 
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no probleemo bub. stay safe and get strong. this is turnig into a good thread. hope to get some more responces.
 
pullinbig,
I used b4 insulin and t3 and i know for a fact that this compination works well but i know also like you said is very dangerous if you dont kno how to use it.The time when i use insulin(may-june1998) i use it for 2 months and put 30lbs.The 10lbs it was fat.But i dont care about that because i gain good LBM.After this i take a break and do a cutting
cycle T3,clen,masteron,winstrol,suspension,diet and that left me with 4%bf at 90kilos.Since then after i win the contest as junior i stopt the anabolics cause of the death one of my friend here in cyprus cause of the drugs.This friend of mine he compete at Mr olimpian and he win the 14place (1997) .Is been 4 years to touch the iron bars.But 4 months ago i start again and in 15 days i begin a cycle.
 
for adding mass slin is not the best thing out there. hard to believe you added 20lb of muscle in 2 months as well but if you say you did that is a very nice gain.

how did you friend die? what where the circumstances? i have never heard of anybody dieing from using Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) only.

good luck with you cylce. a lot has changed over the last few years concerning dosing and methods as far as Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) are concerned. i can tell you this, for adding lean muscle at a fast pace long ester test,tren and Winstrol (winny) is hard to beat. those three go together like abbot and costello. synergistic effects out of the waazoo. no slin needed. add gh if you like but its kinda pricey.

1g test/week + 700mg tren/week + 350-700mg winny/week. you will add lean muscle and this willl make the dieting phase much simplier. you prolly add strenght while dieting on this stack as well. cycle the test up and down between 1g/w and 3g/w. 4 or 5 week mini cycles within the cycle. very effective.

good luck whatever you decide and keep us posted of your progress.
 
Amateur Bodybuilder
I know that for most of ppl is hard to gain 20lbs LBM but believe me i wont make a cycle without slin cause i know is the best hormone even from GH ,you can add 1lb a day from the first day until the last day of use if you know how to use it.Noone can change my mind cause i try it b4 in two cycles.The first one i use it only for a week and add 3 kilos in that week.
Anyway my friend die from cancer he use anabolics,gh,slin,t3
 
Since Insulin is such a new subject for most of you the way I am going to do this post is going to be a little different. I am going to write a few sections on it then give links to a lot of different articles on the subject. I do not want to post a 10 page post that will just confuse you. My suggestion is to read this post and all the links then print out this post as instructions for your cycle. If you still have questions on this topic after reading it, let me know.
Insulin
Rating: 1-5 (Five being the highest)
4 Bulking
4 Cutting
2 Strength
n/a Testosterone Stimulation
n/a Use as an Anti-Estrogen
5 Side Effects
5 Ability to Keep Gains

Basic effects:
Increased workout Pumps
Increase in appetite
Increase the transport of nutrients into the muscle cells.
Side Effects:
Fat Gain
Hypoglycemia
Death
Stacking:
Creatine
Any roid
HGH

My first experience with Insulin:
About 2 years ago I tried insulin for the first time. I started using it 2weeks before my cycle to get use to it and figure out the best dosage for me. I worked up to using it at 10 units in the morning, 10 before I lift and 10 units after. I had a bout with Hypoglycemia only once but I felt pretty shitty for a few days after. Anyway I stacked it with
40grams/day Creatine
750mg/week Sust
300mg/week EQ
The cycle lasted 10 weeks and I put on 40lbs, keeping 30 of it. This is what you can expect from you first bout with slin.

Section 1 - The right insulin to use and why:

There are various types of insulin available but as bodybuilders we are only interested in the short acting types. The only two types that should be used are Humalog and the R (Regular) Types. The difference between the two is the time it takes them to peak and the time to leave your system. In my opinion Humalog is the better choice for new users. There are a few reasons for this.
1. Humalog starts to work within 15 minutes after taking it
2. Humalog more closely matches the action curves of the insulin produced in your body then the R type.
3. Humalog does not last as long as the R type
All of these effects make Humalog easier to control then the R type. The only problem with Humalog is some states that sell R type OTC require a script for Humalog…. So ask about Humalog when you call. If you cant get Humalog then use the R type but remember that there are differences…. See below:
Humalog Regular
Onset of action within 15 minutes 30 minutes
Peak effect 30-90 minutes 2-4 hours
Duration less than 5 hours 6-8 hours
Section 2 - How to obtain Insulin:
Insulin is over the counter in many states. The best was to obtain it is directly from a pharmacy. This way you know that it has been kept cold and did not lose potency. If you do not know if Insulin is OTC in your state then try this:
1. Call a pharmacy and tell them that you are from Florida and you are going to be coming to their area for a business trip for about 1 month. Tell them that you are a diabetic and you need to know if Insulin is sold with out a script their. Explain that since you live in FL you do not have a script since it is OTC. Also ask if insulin syringes are also sold OTC since some time one is but not the other. Also try this in any bordering state that is in driving distance.
The next way to get insulin is from an online pharmacy. You can usually order it and pins with out a problem. Hear is a list of sites that sell insulin and insulin syringes:
Syringe site:
http://diabetes-care.com/
Insulin site: (Note Humalog requires a script on all sites I have found)
http://www.tpsmedical.com/index.html (You have to order over the phone)
http://www.fifty50.com/ http://www.diabetespartners.com/cgi...gi/st_main.html http://www.diabetespartners.com/cgi...gi/st_main.html

Section 3 How to use Insulin for Beginners.
(Everything I will talk about will be using the R type since it is more available. If you can get Humalog email me if you have any questions on how to change your usage)
Now that you have your insulin let say you bought Humulin R. You need to make sure you have the right syringes. Insulin syringes are marked for units not CCs. 1 CC OF INSULIN WILL KILL YOU. So make sure you have the right type of syringes. You can order them from the sites above. Every CC of insulin has 100 units in it. When you Inject you can either Inject SubQ or Intra-muscular. Intra-muscular injections take effect about twice as quick.
Some basic rules:
1. Eat as much protein as you can plus 10grams of carbs per unit of insulin immediately after shooting the insulin.
5 units = 50 carbs
2. Keep some kind of simple carb on you at all times just incase you become hypoglycemic. A chocolate bar works well
3. Eat more protein and carbs about 2 hours after using the insulin. Around 5 grams of carbs per unit used of insulin.
4. Continually snack through out the rest of the day.
5. Try not to eat any fat for at least 4 hours after taking the insulin.
6. Try not to use insulin too late at night. You want most of it out of your system before you go to sleep
7 ***** Important ***** Be aware of the signs of Hypoglycemia:
? Shaking
? Vomiting
? headaches
? concentration problems
? visual disturbances
? muscle pain
? Weakness
? mood swings
? passing out
? Death
8. If you notice any of these signs immediately eat as many simple carbs as you can
9. Do not use any stimulants until you are use to how insulin effects you or you may mistake the signs of hypoglycemia for the effects of the stimulants.

When to take insulin:
As a beginner you should start by just taking it after working out. Start with 4 units and work up from there. Once you reach 10 units after working out try throwing in another 10 units when you wake up in the morning. I see no need to go much over 10 units at a time. I worked my way up to 20 units and all that did was make me hypoglycemic.
Hear is what your day should look like once you reach this point:
6am wake up
6:30 am Inject 10 units of Humulin R
6:31 am Eat a 12 egg white omelet and 3 waffles with enough syrup to = 100 carbs
8:30 am Drink a protein shake with at least 50 carbs in it
10:30 am an apple and a protein bar
12:30 pm Big lunch
2:30 pm Drink a protein shake (no carbs needed)
4:30 pm Snack
5:00pm workout
6:00 pm Inject 10 units of Humulin R (Assuming this is the end of your workout)
6:01pm Tuna salad with pasta and fat free mayo. (At least 100 carbs)
8:00 Drink a protein shake with at least 50 carbs in it
10:00 snack with some carbs
Before bed You should eat a good amount of carbs (50 or so) just to be safe

Insulin for Dieting:
Insulin can be used to get you into ketosis in 1 day. This really helps when doing any low carb diet. You will probably have to play around with the dosage to see what you need to get into ketosis.
This is what I do:
Eliminate carbs from your diet
Day 1 of the diet take 4 shots of insulin spaced 3 hours apart.
8am 2units of Humulin R
11am 2units of Humulin R
1pm 2units of Humulin R
3pm 2units of Humulin R
By the next morning I am deep into ketosis.

Why Insulin works:
Androgen/Insulin Synergy
By Michalovich Greutstein
Should anabolics be used with insulin or is it best to use insulin while off steroids in order to hold onto muscle mass?
We are going to demonstrate that they have to be used together. We will also try to provide some clues about their respective contribution to the synergy both hormones create. This will help us to handle both drugs better.
Here are some general observations:
It is safe to conclude something else is needed to uncover the full anabolic effect of steroids. The hormone which is the most affected by a high calorie or by a low calorie diet is insulin. Also, heavy steroid users know that past a certain amount of steroids, adding insulin will make a big difference as far as muscle gains are concerned. Insulin is thus a strong candidate as a potentiator of anabolic steroids (which we will indiscriminately refer to as androgens, steroids or anabolics). Furthermore, studies performed in trained dogs have shown a lack of insulin completely negates the anabolic effects of steroids on protein synthesis. There are some easy hypotheses such as a possible androgen receptor up regulation, a stimulation of androgen secretion, an antiaromatase effect arising from insulin. But, there is still something missing.
Using anabolics plus insulin will not make you much bigger unless you weight train. The synergy can only be realized if insulin + steroids + training are present. What is the link between those three factors?
A very likely candidate is an enzyme called insulinase. As its name implies, it is an enzyme responsible for the destruction of insulin. But we are going to see it does much more than that.
It is found inside many tissues of the body, particularly in muscle. What science is telling us is that insulinase is essential for insulin to provide its anti-catabolic effect on our muscles. It is also likely that insulinase is able to multiply the anabolic effects of androgens. It's worth repeating: insulin cannot stop protein catabolism without insulinase and the effects of steroids are potentiated by insulinase. It sure looks good.
Androgens are very powerful stimulators of the muscle protein synthesis rate. On the other hand, the muscle gains provided by androgens do not match this elevation in synthesis. steroids promote anabolism to a much higher rate than they make our muscles grow.
The reason for this discrepancy is that they also stimulate protein degradation. I know many people think they are anti-catabolic, but it is not the case. Anabolics stimulate protein turnover. This means they increase both synthesis and degradation of proteins. They are simply more effective at stimulating synthesis than degradation, which is why they make our muscles grow but not at a super fast rate. Look at how long it takes to grow huge muscles. If androgens were stimulating synthesis while inhibiting degradation, one would grow very, very quickly.
This is where insulin comes in. As we said, it mostly reduces protein degradation rate. It might stimulate protein synthesis right after training, but this effect is very limited in duration. Ideally, using insulin along with steroids would allow us to accelerate synthesis (thanks to anabolics) and reduce degradation (thanks to insulin). This is the best way to grow muscle fast.
Unfortunately, as both insulin and anabolics need insulinase to work better, they will compete against each other for this enzyme. For natural athletes, the supply of muscle insulinase should roughly meet the demand. Now if you add anabolics, there will be less insulinase for insulin. If you do not take too high a dose of steroids, the level of insulinase should still be sufficient to allow a fair insulin-induced anti-catabolism.
But as you take more steroids, the insulinase available for insulin will be lower and lower.
Insulin will lose its anti-catabolic effect. As it will still bind some insulinase, the enzyme availability for steroids will not be optimal either. Anabolics will lose some of their potency.
What is important to understand is that past a certain dose, anabolics will provide their own antidote against muscle growth. The only solution (beside using less steroids) is to increase insulinase level.
At least two factors can accomplish this feat:
The first one is insulin itself. The higher the insulin level is in a target organ (muscle for example) the higher the insulinase level will be. You would expect that the body would detect the shortage of insulinase for insulin and so produce more insulin (or more insulinase).
Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case. While insulinase is crucial for the anti-catabolic effect of insulin, it does not seem as important for glucose disposal.
Insulin's main function is not to assist in muscle growth but to control glucose homeostasis. As a result, it is likely our body does not really care about a relative shortage of insulinase. In any case, we are left with a less than optimal equilibrium. It is up to the bodybuilder to react to this imbalance.
One way of increasing insulin secretion is to eat more, but you can only do so up to a point. You cannot increase your carb intake in parallel with the amount of steroids without getting too fat. Another solution is to use drugs to add or to stimulate insulin secretion. This way you get the insulin without the excess of calories.
In any case you now understand why steroids work better while on a high calorie diet while they lose their potency during a diet or a shortage of insulin.
Here is a way of "artificially increasing insulin level": One dose of long acting insulin first thing in the morning (this is the only injection). Before each meal (except the pre-workout one), take a sulfonylurea (an oral anti-diabetic drug which will boost food induced insulin secretion ). I like Glipizide because of its short half-life. In case you experience hypoglycemia, you know it will not last. This is the main problem with the long acting sulfonylureas. When you are hypoglycemic, you try to compensate by absorbing carbs. But the drug will make your pancreas secrete even more insulin before the carbs can hit the blood. It makes the hypoglycemia worse - not better.
In case of problems, make sure you get some ready-to-inject Glucagon (sold as "insulin emergency kits" in drugstores). An additional benefit of the Glipizide is that it induces the release of GH on top of insulin which is beneficial for non diabetics.
This is a nice way to fix the reduced anticatabolic property of insulin. Unfortunately, this will not yet provide the optimal amount of insulinase to have steroids work better.
We said that training was the third key ingredient in this synergy. This is because training can stimulate insulinase activity. Not any exercise will do. The traumatic ones inducing muscle soreness are the most effective. It is the factors inducing soreness which will trigger this increase in insulinase.
On the other hand, you do not want to create too much soreness as it will temporarily reduce the effects of insulin and androgens by impairing their effects at the level of their respective receptors. What you want is mild but frequent soreness along with some very frequent pumping sessions.
Do not forget both androgens and insulin circulate in the blood. The more blood you get into the muscles (and the longer it stays), the more your muscles will be "drenched" in those two hormones. Please note that insulinase is produced locally in the trained muscles only. It does not circulate into the blood.
 
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