2nd Cycle (First Reak Serious One)

[IRonBuilT]

Hey, I'm currently 5"10.5, weight 180lb and have around 12-14%bf .I'm going on my 2nd cycle very soon but I wanted to know what you guys think about it.
25-30mg/day DBol Weeks 1-3 or 4 (still not sure how long I should take it for)
500mg Enanthate Weeks 1-10
50mg/day Winstrol (winny) Weeks 7-12
Clen Weeks 8-16
.25mg Arimidex weeks 1-16
Clomid Weeks 13-16
Various Liver Protectants

What do you guys think about this? My goal is to bulk up in the beginning and try to shred up as much as possible by the end of the 16 week cycle.
I was just wondering how Clen would work while I would still be on the test, and would the clen cause problems while im on my pct. In other words would it increase the chance of me losing more of my gains?
thanks

 

[eastsideking]

Stupid, no offense. if you bulk then go cutter you will be sure to lose all your bulking gains. Its not the drug that gets you big or shredded its your diet. Your stats arent that great either for a 2nd cycle. 5 10 180 you should probably go some more natty

 

[IRonBuilT]

"Stupid?" This coming from a novice with 47 posts... Thats all I have to say about that... I don't think its stupid at all because ive seen plenty of people who have done the same thing and got real big off of it. In Fact people say using clen at the end is good because it helps out your appetite so you can eat a lot and not lose your gains during PCT.

 

[dolf]

bro you should be carefull who you call out on here. just because he doesnt have many posts doesnt mean anything. he could be a veteran. and usually the rule is to do one at a time. if youve already done one cycle and are only 180 your diet might be off.

 

[overrx]

I would agree with the general consensus, pick one bulking or cutting. If you end up cutting at the end of a bulking cycle you will lose gains regardless of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) because you are simply not eating enough calories. Since its winter and there is no real reason for cutting I recommend a bulking cycle (if your worried about excess fat then just eat very cleanly and precisly throughout your cycle and it really should not be a problem).
A simpler cycle would be
Dbol 50mg/ED weeks 1-4
Test E 500 mg/wk weeks 1-10
Winny 50mg/ED weeks 4-12
Clomid 100 mg/ED weeks 12-14

You'll make great gains and if you eat right very little to no fat. But dont forget that your metabolism will alot higher in the future since you have more muscle mass on you....over the years as i got bigger I also got leaner cause muscle mass burns more calories. That being said I really think the only way you can cut and make gains at the same time is with the use of GH, and even then its a very tricky process. Stick with bulking dude.

 

[blackbeard]

i dont think its a good idea either to bulk for 8 weeks and then all of a sudden cut for the last 8...the higher above your natural potential you get this will be extremely detrimental to adding size for the simple fact the body wants to maintain its present size..

 

[IRonBuilT]

ok thanks for all the replys... I'm sorry if im a little unclear, for the Clen it is for 2 months but I forgot that I was either going to take it EOD or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off (Not sure which is better)... My diet is pretty good and very very clean. I take in approx. 4000 calories from that approx. 330grams is protien. I eat plenty of clean carbs and in terms of fat the only thing I would get fat from would be from the daily spicy chicken sandwich from Wendy's or from the weightgainer or protien shakes. Sadly my life is surrounded by lots and lots of shakes (Protien shakes, Weightgainer Shakes, Carb Shakes)... I have to say maybe its not very enjoyable but I always look forward to that Wendy's Sandwich at the end lol. I managed to gain size and lose plenty of fat off my diet, but I hope to change it around a little so I can eat more REAL food lol.
And DOLF: my diet isn't off.... before my cycle I weighted in at 155lb. After the cycle I was 170lb only using 50mg prop/200mg enan per week.... so I did it correctly. and now I gained 10lb (about 7-8lb lean) of Muscle naturally in only 3 months because of my diet and exercise.

 

[IRonBuilT]

I mean im looking to be about 190lb lean so I don't want to bloat up too much with the dbol and enan. Thats why I was thinking about taking the Winstrol (winny) to help with water retention and help get a little more lean, and I wanted to use clen to help me out a little with getting more lean and helping out my post cycle therapy (pct) with the cravings so I could eat more (I hope i'm correct?) I will start on this cycle a little later once I finalize my cycle and buy what I need but it should end right when summer begins, thats why i'm trying to get lean for that beach look

 

[Eze]

"Stupid?" This coming from a novice with 47 posts... Thats all I have to say about that... QUOTE]

Just a note: Post count doesn't mean shit. There are some people on this board with less than 100 posts who know more than I will ever know Ex. DoggCrapp & RealGains.


IMO it isn't the best idea to try and bulk and cut in the same cycle. It's winter now so take this time to add some quality mass. If you keep your diet clean High Protein, Complex Carbs and Good fats you should be able to pack on mass and avoid putting on much fat. For bloat, take some Adex and you should be good to go.

My 2nd cycle was:
500mg Test Enan
400mg Deca
30mg Dbol
and I gain a shit load of muscle and I actually lost some bf. I ate a ton of food, but I kept the calories very clean and focused on getting a minimum of 350grams of protein each day. I'm not telling you to do the same cycle, but I got some great results off of it.

 

[IRonBuilT]

Yea I was initially going to do your cycle but I realized that it was just too much for someone my size... that may be my 3rd future cycle I should take. Right now maybe be a great time to just bloat, but im not taking it now, ill be taking more towards the end of Winter and by the time im done with my whole cycle it will be Summer so I wanna be cut by then. I'm not saying that "eastsideking" doesn't know what hes talking about because he has a few posts.... thats true that DoggCrapp may have little posts but hes a Training Guru (By the way im using his training program, it's GREAT) but eastsideking is a novice... a novice with a few posts so it's meaningless to me.

 

[StoneColdNTO]

.....but eastsideking is a novice... a novice with a few posts so it's meaningless to me.

I still don't think you quite get it.......lol

It's only a title, it changes as you post more, after a while you'll be a "pro bodybuilder".....like that's gonna mean anything either.

 

[TurboLifter]

5'10 and 180? Whats your diet like? Post count is not directly related to knowledge my friend....there are smart people on here, you should listen to them.

 

[dolf]

like i said before your only 180 pounds at 5.10. im the same height as you and i worked my way up to 206 from 145 before i started my cycle. it took a couple years but i never would have done a cycle at 155. i think you should be able to reach 190s natty. jmo

 

[IRonBuilT]

Im not saying that anyone with a rookie or novice status have no word in this, but to me automatically if I see someone who trys to insult me and is only a novice I automatically disregards what he says. I mean I have seen some people with little posts but is still a veteren thats why I thought this whole novice rookie thing had to do with the age or something... I mean thank you for your advices but I don't need one right now interms of my diet because I know its working fine I have gained a lot naturally in a short period of time I just wanted an advice on my cycle which I think most of it has been answered

 

[BigRonWannabee]

If I've read this right, your goal is to gain 10lbs and stay lean. IMO you could easily do that with test and food in 16 weeks. I also woulnt prescribe yourself an arimidex dosage. You may find that you dont need it at all (Not sure as you didnt mention), remember that E is bittersweet. Avoid the sides but try to reap the benefits as well.

 

[IRonBuilT]

well I mean after I cut down some more body fat I want to still gain 10lb... so im looking to be 190lb at 8-10%bf compared to my 12-14% right now... I'm not sure if my expectations are too much?

 

[Trevdog]

Well I have switched from bulking to cutting mid cycle several times, and I think it makes perfect sense. I really can't force feed myself for 8-12 weeks anyway. I suppose it all depends on your goals, and perhaps it isn't the optimal scenario for maximum weight gain, but it has worked for me and others as well.

The only problem I see with the cycle is as gimp pointed out, clen just isn't effective for 8 weeks straight - that is unless you take ketotifen with it. You can probably get away with 3 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 3 on during that 8 week period.

And you can take dbol for 4 weeks.

 

[IRonBuilT]

yea yea thats what I tried saying before.. I wasn't very clear I wanted to either do EOD or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off but im not sure which is more effective... thanks for your input Trevdog... lol finally someone who agree's with me

 

[IRonBuilT]

Also if you guys can, I have posted a new thread about liver protectants but NO ONE answered me.. maybe ill have more luck in this thread... I was thinking about taking Liv.52 and r-ala together but I don't know the dosage, can anyone help me with this?

 

[jcp2]

Your first real cycle and you are running orals 10 out 12 weeks. I would personally run eq or some other injectable instead of the orals. As for liver protectants look into tylers, r-ala, acetyl l cysteine, and milk thistle.