A HOW TO for: SERM’s, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and post cycle therapy (pct) *A must read*

[adie1981]

Im starting the following next week

10 week cycle
3/4ml Tren ace eod (100mg/1ml bottles)
1ml test prop eod (100mg/1ml bottles)
HCG once a week (or i can change this to start later on in the cycle)
Full PCT 3 weeks after last jab

Ive read through all this and its fantastic, good write up!
I was looking at getting aromasin to take through my cycle, then have prami as a back up incase any gyno started, BUT im unable to inject this on an evening as i dont want my partner seeing, so what other option is there in the form of tablets i can get as a back up to battle gyno symptoms should the AI not keep prevent it.

 

[JohnnySapphire]

all great info OP. thanks

 

[bryann]

great post! will be using as a reference guide. Thanks

 

[kevlarcash2]

Only problem these days is finding the real product to use.

 

[juced_porkchop]

great post! will be using as a reference guide. Thanks

You are very welcome!

thanks!

 

[antr bn shdad]

isnot the aromatization process is going to happen any way but iam just delaying it by the anti-aromatizers?i mean after the discontinue of letro or arimidex which both raises the natural test be side the hcg?

 

[teedub79]

Here is my question I need a little bit of advice... I only was on one cycle my whole life and that was over 10years ago..I have a little bit of gyno left over in one breast, no tenderness, not leaking, but somewhat noticable from certain angles. I would like to get rid of it if possible. I was recommended exemestane so I ordered some from ************ in liquid form. My question is will this stuff work? how do I take it? how much a day? I see a lot of info about mg/day but not ml can you convert (mg to ML)
how long do I take it? What side affects should I be concerned about? thanks in advance for any info . PS I'm not on any anbolics

 

[MaceyMayo]

Round in the uk where I'm from people take a drug called armidex through there cycle as an AI. Has anyone heard of this or should I try getting my hands on letrozole?

Cheers

Ryan

 

[MaceyMayo]

It's ok armidex is anostrazole. Cheers

 

[Fist]

Nice info. This is the most important one of all!

 

[Flognuts]

Great thread.

I have a question,.

So I have started my first cycle, 500mg test-e a week.

I have aromasin 12.5mg caps. I am a week into my cycle. Should I start taking 12.5mg EOD now, or wait till week 3, which is when I start HCG @ 500iu a week ? I don't want to crash estrogen, but would love to avoid gyno at all costs.

 

[umar78]

I missed that mistake, mybad

 

[shayan]

I didnt have ai the first week of my cycle 500 test e 300 Deca 30dbol and i got gyno symptoms.
Is it ok if i run 1mg Eod adex now and 40mg nolva ed (or 20mg ed?) till the symptoms are gone? It's been 3 days and i dont feel pain any more but i still have a smalll lump and my nips are puffy.
Also i am using caber at 0.5mg e3d Cheers

 

[arm wrestler]

Thanks for the this useful write up Mod...Is there any bridge after the cycle and before the PCT ?

 

[scott'75]

Regarding pct......

will taking a high dose of an AI along with 3,6,17 androstenetrione for 4 weeks pct be as effective as taking clomid for 4 weeks pct?

taking 500mg test e/week for 12 weeks for reference

 

[cybrsage]

isnot the aromatization process is going to happen any way but iam just delaying it by the anti-aromatizers?i mean after the discontinue of letro or arimidex which both raises the natural test be side the hcg?

I have had the same question. Since you asked, it has given me enough of a push to bother researching it. The answer is yes or no, depending on how long you use the AI. Testosterone converts into two major items, dihydrotestosterone and estradiol, with most of it turning into dihydrotestosterone. Dihydrotestosterone is responsible for hair grown and other "manly stuff" in the young and then becomes responsible for hair loss in the not so young. If you block the creation of estradiol, you do increase the amount of testosterone in the body. This, however, will eventually passed out in the urine after the liver rips them to shreds. If you use an AI for a very short amount of time (only a few days) then you will most likely only be delaying the effect. If you use one for weeks your body will rip apart the testosterone and you will piss it out. You will always have a little rebound effect, since you are artificially keeping the testosterone from naturally breaking down, but it is not very much at all in the end.

The science behind it:

In schemes 1 and 2 we have seen that testosterone can be metabolized in two ways. In Scheme 1 the reductive metabolism leading to dihydrotestosterone and in Scheme 2 the oxidative metabolism to estradiol is shown. The reduction of testosterone takes place in target tissues like the prostate and the skin and of course metabolism takes place in the liver. In males a very small part (0.2%) of the testosterone is converted into estradiol. This process mainly takes place in adipose tissue and for about 20% in the testes.

The metabolisme of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone takes place for 90% in the liver. There reductases and dehydrogenases catalyse the reactions of the D4-double bond, the C3-carbonyl group and the C17-hydroxyl group. Finally the hydroxyl groups are connected to glucuronic acid or sulphate, followed by excretion with the urine [3] [4].

11. Metabolism of Testosterone, Dihydrotestosterone, Estrone and Estradiol

 

[juced_porkchop]

Regarding pct......

will taking a high dose of an AI along with 3,6,17 androstenetrione for 4 weeks pct be as effective as taking clomid for 4 weeks pct?

taking 500mg test e/week for 12 weeks for reference

No it wont. Get clomid ( i rec CLomid and tamox: 50mg clomid ed and 20mg tamox ed)
at the very least Tamox, and dont bother with an AI during PCT... your off the gear

I like RUI for research products like clomid. Don't screw up your PCT..

 

[juced_porkchop]

Thanks for the this useful write up Mod...Is there any bridge after the cycle and before the PCT ?

no you wait till PCT and start it. using AAS will only keep system shut down. I would however rec peptides like igf1 or a ghrp2 Mod GRF 1-29 combo from end of cycle through PCT ( might actually help PCT, and it will help hold gains IMO)

 

[scott'75]

No it wont. Get clomid ( i rec CLomid and tamox: 50mg clomid ed and 20mg tamox ed)
at the very least Tamox, and dont bother with an AI during PCT... your off the gear

I like RUI for research products like clomid. Don't screw up your PCT..

Awesome thanks, getting both.

 

[JB1016]

First off thank you for the in-depth article. Very helpful information.


I am a bit confused when reading the conflicting information in the sticky article "Massive Newbie Info."

The article references this as a typical starting cycle:

"First timer cycles:
In between bulk and cut cycles:
#1:
Wk 1-10 Test Enanthate 400mg each week
Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20mg each day
Wk 12-15 Clomid (dose using the guideline I listed above)
*That is 14 days after last shot.

#2:
Wk 1-10 Test Cypionate 400mg each week
Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20m each day
Wk 12-15 Clomid
*That is 14 days after last shot."

This shows the use of SERMS throughout the entire cycle as well as PCT. This "HOW TO for: SERMS....etc" however states the opposite.

This thread advises the use of an AI during the cycle and a SERM for PCT only.

1. Which is correct?
2. When using a low dose Deca / Test combo specifically for injury rehab, as described in another great article on this site, does the dosage for an AI change due to the low estrogen conversion rate for Deca?