A HOW TO for: SERM’s, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and post cycle therapy (pct) *A must read*

[juced_porkchop]

First off thank you for the in-depth article. Very helpful information.


I am a bit confused when reading the conflicting information in the sticky article "Massive Newbie Info."

The article references this as a typical starting cycle:

"First timer cycles:
In between bulk and cut cycles:
#1:
Wk 1-10 Test Enanthate 400mg each week
Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20mg each day
Wk 12-15 Clomid (dose using the guideline I listed above)
*That is 14 days after last shot.

#2:
Wk 1-10 Test Cypionate 400mg each week
Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20m each day
Wk 12-15 Clomid
*That is 14 days after last shot."

This shows the use of SERMS throughout the entire cycle as well as PCT. This "HOW TO for: SERMS....etc" however states the opposite.

This thread advises the use of an AI during the cycle and a SERM for PCT only.

1. Which is correct?
2. When using a low dose Deca / Test combo specifically for injury rehab, as described in another great article on this site, does the dosage for an AI change due to the low estrogen conversion rate for Deca?

using a serm to avoid gyno during cycle is basically covering up the issue of high estrogen, and there is more to worry about than just gyno with high e2. a serm does not lower estrogen. Use an AI
Use a AI on cycke and a SERM in PCT.
also 10wks is a bit of a waste, make cycle 12-14 weeks IMO
go by blood work. but I keep me doses of AI about the same.

 

[juced_porkchop]

First off thank you for the in-depth article. Very helpful information.


I am a bit confused when reading the conflicting information in the sticky article "Massive Newbie Info."

The article references this as a typical starting cycle:

"First timer cycles:
In between bulk and cut cycles:
#1:
Wk 1-10 Test Enanthate 400mg each week
Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20mg each day
Wk 12-15 Clomid (dose using the guideline I listed above)
*That is 14 days after last shot.

#2:
Wk 1-10 Test Cypionate 400mg each week
Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20m each day
Wk 12-15 Clomid
*That is 14 days after last shot."

This shows the use of SERMS throughout the entire cycle as well as PCT. This "HOW TO for: SERMS....etc" however states the opposite.

This thread advises the use of an AI during the cycle and a SERM for PCT only.

1. Which is correct?
2. When using a low dose Deca / Test combo specifically for injury rehab, as described in another great article on this site, does the dosage for an AI change due to the low estrogen conversion rate for Deca?

using a serm to avoid gyno during cycle is basically covering up the issue of high estrogen, and there is more to worry about than just gyno with high e2. a serm does not lower estrogen. Use an AI
Use a AI on cycke and a SERM in PCT.
also 10wks is a bit of a waste, make cycle 12-14 weeks IMO
go by blood work. but I keep me doses of AI about the same.

 

[Crooger_boy]

using a serm to avoid gyno during cycle is basically covering up the issue of high estrogen, and there is more to worry about than just gyno with high e2. a serm does not lower estrogen. Use an AI
Use a AI on cycke and a SERM in PCT.
also 10wks is a bit of a waste, make cycle 12-14 weeks IMO
go by blood work. but I keep me doses of AI about the same.

Can i use (on cycle) ralox with letro or its useless ? I mean if there is no estr cuz letr is ralox needed ? Thanks for advice

 

[Megatron28]

Can i use (on cycle) ralox with letro or its useless ? I mean if there is no estr cuz letr is ralox needed ? Thanks for advice

Think of the raloxifene as an insurance policy in case estradiol gets elevated. Many guys don't know how much AI to run for their given test dose.

Don't use letro as your AI. It is too strong and will tank your estradiol. You will feel like crap when that happens. Use arimidex or aromasin.

 

[Crooger_boy]

Think of the raloxifene as an insurance policy in case estradiol gets elevated. Many guys don't know how much AI to run for their given test dose.

Don't use letro as your AI. It is too strong and will tank your estradiol. You will feel like crap when that happens. Use arimidex or aromasin.

U are not right sir ... i tried pharm grade arimidex ant it didnt work, so letro just saved me and i dont have sides ... and i m taking half tab(1.25mg) a day for about 12 days and it helped so much so i m asking after one or 2 moths of this kind of letro use should i switch to ralox with proviron or as i saw here on boards tamox + proviron .. all with trt dose, i developed small gyno on one of my nipps and alost non existent on another after 3 yrs cycling without proper ai cuz arimidex didnt reduce big bloat ,after 6 weeks letro only i m going to use about 1.25mg of letro 2x a week and 60 mg ralox every day.... is that good idea ? I know i should have bloodwork ... anyway that letro helped and not little ... i feel so much better ... maybe sides will come later ..

 

[Crooger_boy]

My joints feel different etc. i pee a lot but that feeling is not pain, i had just edema for a longer peroid of time?

 

[n666]

Hello JP
i had a thread opened one month ago and im actualy still researching things
my diet/train is allways in check and im doing good
thing is im starting to put things together so in my mind i would like to know whats the best idea to be running when im up to. Infos on web are so many with so many diferent opinions so it makes a mess in a noob's mind even if researching for hours. let's get this straight

i know most people will say the best is 12w run on test e but i like to take things slow , 1st thing matter for me isnt the best gain results on 1st cycle but les sides/better controll until i know how my body reacts.

Week 1-10 500mg test e ew 2x250mg (mon-t)
Week 1-12 12.5mg e3d Aromasin (i just like the idea for THIS AI because of its suicidal factor) im planning to keep the dose like that but make it e2d if i see and sighs of bloat/gyno
Week 13-16 PCT Clomid 50/50/50/50 + nolva 40/40/20/20

thing is most people say to start day one clomid @ 100-200 or even 300mg and that doesnt sounds good to me with all i read.

in fact the other side was real life people told me not to run any ai if not needed and not run pct other than pregnyl. Well pregnyl is hcg and i dont know how the hell did they come up to this , its not about pct its about kickstart ur pct or run it through the entire cycle on lower doses to keep the fellas running ... whatever , i dont take advices from them so its good for them to tell whatever the hell they want , i dont care.

so .. here we are , is this cycle good to run for my first to test how my body reacts to testosterone and will it keep me (pct doses bother me most because i heard 1 milion different opinions on dose)

and something else , if i dont run any hcg on cycle or to kickstart pct will i have problems? is HCG a MUST for this cycle? (i would need to shot it eod and this becomes too many shots for me at this point , id like to keep it as simple as i can).

thx a lot . im sending u a pic of me right now (those on thread was old) and my stats to let u know my current state in case that helps anything . thx.

 

[n666]

any help plz? il use hcg 2 x 250iu/w the same days i pin my test e..

 

[juced_porkchop]

Hello JP
i had a thread opened one month ago and im actualy still researching things
my diet/train is allways in check and im doing good
thing is im starting to put things together so in my mind i would like to know whats the best idea to be running when im up to. Infos on web are so many with so many diferent opinions so it makes a mess in a noob's mind even if researching for hours. let's get this straight

i know most people will say the best is 12w run on test e but i like to take things slow , 1st thing matter for me isnt the best gain results on 1st cycle but les sides/better controll until i know how my body reacts.

Week 1-10 500mg test e ew 2x250mg (mon-t)
Week 1-12 12.5mg e3d Aromasin (i just like the idea for THIS AI because of its suicidal factor) im planning to keep the dose like that but make it e2d if i see and sighs of bloat/gyno
Week 13-16 PCT Clomid 50/50/50/50 + nolva 40/40/20/20

thing is most people say to start day one clomid @ 100-200 or even 300mg and that doesnt sounds good to me with all i read.

in fact the other side was real life people told me not to run any ai if not needed and not run pct other than pregnyl. Well pregnyl is hcg and i dont know how the hell did they come up to this , its not about pct its about kickstart ur pct or run it through the entire cycle on lower doses to keep the fellas running ... whatever , i dont take advices from them so its good for them to tell whatever the hell they want , i dont care.

so .. here we are , is this cycle good to run for my first to test how my body reacts to testosterone and will it keep me (pct doses bother me most because i heard 1 milion different opinions on dose)

and something else , if i dont run any hcg on cycle or to kickstart pct will i have problems? is HCG a MUST for this cycle? (i would need to shot it eod and this becomes too many shots for me at this point , id like to keep it as simple as i can).

thx a lot . im sending u a pic of me right now (those on thread was old) and my stats to let u know my current state in case that helps anything . thx.

Hello : )

I would rec 12-15 weeks. the first few weeks are more of a waiting game IMO... so really your having 6 weeks of growth (hopefully) out of the 10 weeker. the difference of going 12 or 14 weeks is minimal in pct, but much more worth while in gains for the roller coaster your putting your body through. consider going 2-5 weeks longer IMO.

No HCG is not a MUST, Yes it would in most cases help PCT.
Thank GOD you not listen to the bad advice on AI and PCT... use an AI and control estrogen not JUST for gyno, but for health. and your dose is too low. 25mg eod-ed is what I would rec. even 12.5mg ed... but e3d is way to low. its not that effective in males... I would rec Dex or LOW dose letro.

Hope that helps somehow : )

 

[n666]

nice so il go 12 weeks @500mg , ai aromasin 25mg eod (i already have it on hand .. hope it works good )
Im thinking to use hcg , actually ive buyed 2 x 5000ui , problem is it comes at 2 amps only 1 ml to mix ... so 1ml = 5000ui
il need 2 x 250iu per week (same days with test e) but im not sure the pharmacy will have sterile water + bottle to buy (i know , il put 1ml water in hcg then il mix it, then il draw it in a syringe , il put 9ml sterile water in the bottle with a syringe and then il put the 1ml= 5000ui in there , so il mix and have 5000ui = 10ml

but as i said i dont know if i find sterile water + bottle
damn that pregnyl ... i was thinking it comes with a bottle to mix ...like other hcg :/

Should i start it asap or is it cool to start hcg at the start of week 2 ?
i have no problem to store it in the fridge either , my people know what im doing , everything's cool, so why not? hcg is cheap here (5000ui = 3 euro)

thx for ur help , today i took my 1st 250mg and went smoothly in my glute . im lucky my sister is a nurse and when i asked her if she knows how to do she started laughing lol

 

[Crooger_boy]

Hi guys, i heard that HCG should be stopped 2-3days before PCT. Is that true or should i continue with hcg use throughout the PCT. I was on longer cycle 20weeks of tren and always used hcg in pct, what the right way ?? And how long should i stop letro use before clomid+tamox ? One week or two weeks ? Thanks for advice

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Hi guys, i heard that HCG should be stopped 2-3days before PCT. Is that true or should i continue with hcg use throughout the PCT. I was on longer cycle 20weeks of tren and always used hcg in pct, what the right way ?? And how long should i stop letro use before clomid+tamox ? One week or two weeks ? Thanks for advice

Yes, you should stop hCG a couple days before PCT. hCG suppresses the pituitary, meaning clomid and nolva can do nothing while hCG in still in your system. So the only benefit you get from them is while they hang around for a few weeks after you finish PCT if you keep running hCG.

What dose are you using letro at? I would think a couple days is enough. Perhaps same day as your last hCG shot.

 

[Crooger_boy]

Is hcg in post cycle therapy ? I heard that u should always stop hsg usage 2-3days before pct ...lets say tamox+clomid, is that true ?

 

[Crooger_boy]

sorry for double post ,i though it s not over there.

 

[Crooger_boy]

im using 1 mg every every 2 days, so stop letro with hcg at the same time and start tamox or ralox + clomid also in the same time is good idea ? I get it right ?

 

[Crooger_boy]

Im sorry, those are 2.5 mg tabs and i m taking 2-3 a week.. it works well, almost no sides

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Im sorry, those are 2.5 mg tabs and i m taking 2-3 a week.. it works well, almost no sides

Damn lol, thats a lot of letro. Did you drop a whole lot of (water)weight when you started taking it? If not it's probably bunk. That much letro will have nuked the absolute shit out of your aromatase.

Yes, so you should have been running hCG throughout your cycle, then stop taking it 2-3days before you start clomid & tamox. Then take them for 4-6 weeks.

 

[Crooger_boy]

Damn lol, thats a lot of letro. Did you drop a whole lot of (water)weight when you started taking it? If not it's probably bunk. That much letro will have nuked the absolute shit out of your aromatase.

Yes, so you should have been running hCG throughout your cycle, then stop taking it 2-3days before you start clomid & tamox. Then take them for 4-6 weeks.

yep, i notice that i pee a lot more

 

[rav16]

If one runs a cycle of test prop , parabolan , masteron and during cycle uses aromasin and prami ,is it advisable to use them during pct along with clomid and nolva ? Asking because I wanted to know if there will be rebound effect of prolactin and estrogen after the cycle ?

 

[Exomnius]

Heyhey all,

Man, this is all a great read! Id like to run my specific situation by you all and get your expertise....

To sum up a long story, I did 3 tren/test cycles years ago but real life got in the way and I haven't been able to hit beast mode in awhile. Ive since started back in the gym for a few months and am prepping for another tren/test cycle.

However, I recently had my doctor prescribe me a bit of test. (thought I would cruise on a small dose before tackling the tren monster). Now the last tren/test cycle I did, I feel I ran a bit to long and only use nolva as a PCT. Because of this I developed a bit of gyno in my right peck. I eventually got it under control it where it wasn't an issue. But since starting just this bit of test it has come back quick, fast and in a hurry.

Basically my question is do you think I should use Arimidex as well as clomid ( one to remove the estrogen and one to block the binding) to get it under control before I start my tren/test cycle?

Also what would you recommend to have on hand or use during the cycle since I am now prone to gyno? Run prima/ letro?

Id also like to use HCG in my PCT this time as well as having a more solid PCT than just clomid/nolva..

Thanks in advance guys!