Advice on second cycle (TestP, trenA, dbol / winny)

[PapaNoel]

Hello everyone!

I just finished my first cycle yesterday and currently doing PCT.
Did a shorty for 5 weeks.
Premixed stack of:
Test p 75mg EOD
Tren a 50mg EOD
Drostalon 50mg EOD

Was pretty happy with the results but not quite the expectations i had when starting.

32 years, 176cm
Went from 62.4kg to 67.2kg
From 13.5 BF to 9.9%
And i can see a sixpack trough tshirts haha

Already planning my next cycle and came up with this:
Had some mild issues my first week(couldn't sleep, showering in sweat, loss of apitite etc. All of them went away 2nd week...), so gonna start slower this time and work my bloodlevels up.
Bit unsure about the winny dose week 3-6.

I'll be the first to admit im a noob when it comes to planning cycles so please, let me know but please keep it constructive <3

Week 1.
Test p 75mg / ED
dbol 40mg / ED(4 doses)

Week 2
Test p 100mg / ED
tren a 50mg / ED
dbol 30mg / ED(3 doses)
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 3
Test p 100mg / ED
tren a 75mg / ED
dbol 30mg / ED(3 doses)
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 4
Test p 100mg / ED
tren a 75mg / ED
Winstrol 20-40mg / ED (2 doses)
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 5
Test p 100mg / ED
tren a 75mg / ED
Winstrol 20-40mg / dag (2 doses)
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 6
Test p 100mg / ED
tren a 75mg / ED
Winstrol 20-40mg / ED(2 doses)
HCG 500iu / ED
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 7
PCT
HCG 500iu / ED
Clomid 200mg first day (4 doser) / Rest of week 150mg on 3 doses troughout the day.
Nolva 40mg first day (2 doser) / Rest of week 20mg in the morning.

Week 8
Clomid 150mg ED on 3 does
Nolva 20mg på ED

Week 9
Clomid 100mg ED, morning/night

Week 10
Clomid 50mg ED morning.

Week 11
Clomid 50mg ED morning.

 

[appleton111]

whats your cycle history?

 

[PapaNoel]

whats your cycle history?

I just finished my first cycle friday and currently PCT sunday.
Did a shorty cycle for 5 weeks.
Premixed stack of:
1ml contains:
Test p 75mg EOD
Tren a 50mg EOD
Masteron 50mg EOD

My goals are around 70-75kg and about 8-8.5% bodyfat.
More ripped "mens physique look" rather then the bodybuilding look.

 

[tbonexl]

You need to read the beginner cycle stickys bud. This is a way advanced cycle and your just asking for negative side effects...

 

[PapaNoel]

You need to read the beginner cycle stickys bud. This is a way advanced cycle and your just asking for negative side effects...

My moma always told me i was advanced haha
What dont like about it ?
The compounds ? The stack itself ? The doses ?

I've read the beginner guide (wish i did before my first cycle) and my experince is obviously limited but I feel shorter, more aggresive cycles are safer in the long run.
My body responds well to both tren and test. Doubt dbol will make me go haywire.
I am concerned about my liver and 6 weeks with two orals is stretching it and im aware.

My comments still needs moderation but like i said in my previous reply, im going for a more defined, hard/ripped look rather then mass bodybuilding and in my novice head. This was a great cycle to achive that.

Would you suggest something completely different or changes to mine or perhaps option c ?
Thanks for your time and input!

 

[scorob777]

I've got a couple comments -

First off your results from the first cycle were in my opinion spectacular. You gained 10 lbs, lost 3.6% body fat - I'd be happy with that, no actually I'd be overjoyed with that. Especially over such a short period of time. And, even though three compounds for a first run is overkill, the doses were all relatively low.

Second, you are stepping up the doses pretty markedly - Tren going from 25 mg/day to 75 mg/day. That's a pretty big deal. And you might suffer worse sides with the tren due to no masteron this time around, apparently mast makes tren sides less severe. And four compounds for a second run? Not necessary, but if you do please post your results - I'll be very interested.

 

[PapaNoel]

My PT said the exact same, that i should be very very happy with my gains.
He had to go on vacation last 2.5 weeks of my cycle and its been very though on me mentally for some reason.
Constant looking in mirror, extending gym time, just overdoing it pretty much. Also constant feeling that im not growing or even worse sometimes shrinking.
Been very exhausting specially now doing PCT and all sessions feel like shit now and motivation is all time low

This next cycle is not set in stone by any means.
I just really liked my last cycle, my only regret is doing EOD instead of ED.


With that said my idea for this stack was doing a small bulk phase followed my a short cut phase.
I read that winstrol would be ideal for the look and definition i want.

What about lowering the doses and maybe skipping dbol ?
Or should i just do a tren/test for my second cycle ?

The thing is, i dont plan or really want todo many cycles. I just trained for 1.5 years, 5 days a week and sure, i saw gains but i could train for 2-3 more years and barley make the gains i did in this cycle.
I just didnt reach my set goals with this cycle.
I want to go above 70kg and 8-8.5 BF.

I went against my PTs advice for only doing test for my first cycle (stupid i know.)
And even though i researched for almost a year before starting, i learned more this whole cycle then that whole year of research and the more i read, the more i realize its endless of information ontop of me not actually even being able to understand all of the information

Thats why i decided to come here and listen this time!

 

[PapaNoel]

Also i thought armidex would help instead of the masteron.
Both work as an AI or have i missunderstood that ?

 

[PapaNoel]

Its bit weird when i have to wait for moderation and cant edit my posts.
But i just wanted to add that i had zero sides with this cycle i gu
The worst i experinced was the first week and some occasional very bad night sweats from the tren.
No zits, no limp dick (tho my balls shrunk) no nothing.

Every injection i did felt awesome, like i finally got what was missing in my body. Overall it made me calmer, nicer, more patient and tolerant. Just more happy and confident i guess
Could my test levels be very low and this cycle worked sorta like TRT for me ?

I feel at a loss her to be honest.
Would repeating the same cycle of test/tren/mast but doing ED and slightly higher doses be my best route ?
What about winstrol ? Have i been hyped on it or is it really the best for cutting, i want that hard hard lean look

Sorry for spamming the thread im just hooked guys haha :O

 

[PapaNoel]

@tankmanbob
Did some math and you're absolutely right. The doses are way to high, triple or more from my last cycle.
Dont know what i was thinking.
I've revised it and gonna double last cycles doses as it felt pretty low.
I also removed dbol.

What about this cycle ?
Week 1.
Test p 50mg / ED

Week 2
Test p 70mg / ED
tren a 25mg / ED
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 3
Test p 70mg / ED
tren a 50mg / ED
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 4
Test p 70mg / ED
tren a 50mg / ED
Winstrol 40mg / ED (2 doses)
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 5
Test p 70mg / ED
tren a 50mg / ED
Winstrol 40mg / dag (2 doses)
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 6
Test p 70mg / ED
tren a 50mg / ED
Winstrol 40mg / ED(2 doses)
HCG 500iu / ED
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

I dont really have anyone to talk steriods with. Its sorta taboo where i live.
And i can research forever but i'd really want some real life experince advice.
I fine with pushing a high risk/reward scenario but obvsiouly i like my body to function and not have permanent side effects because i was an idiot

Really, thanks for having patience with me. I promise i will not make you disappointed!

 

[tbonexl]

Also i thought armidex would help instead of the masteron.
Both work as an AI or have i missunderstood that ?

You definitely misunderstood that. Mast doesn't replace an ai..

 

[blakey]

Make this your signature

 

[PapaNoel]

You definitely misunderstood that. Mast doesn't replace an ai..

Have to read up on what my friend told me. Thanks!

 

[PapaNoel]

What i really dont get is why you can recommend similar cycle to someone just because he's done previously more ?
Shouldnt his risks be higher ?

Isnt that idea to get maxs gains, shortest peroid time without distrubting natural balance of things ?
Isnt the goal to reach max risk/reward ratio ?

I will finish PTC this week and wait a month and get blood work done. If bloodwork looks fine im looking at this revised plan.
Any input other then "have fun with sideeffects or good luck"
Informative information or critique if you will. Im new but im trying my best and is taking both this and my body serious.

 

[PapaNoel]

Is this still idea ludacris and stupid ?
If so, please explain way, help me understand <3

Thanks!

Week 1.
Test p 40mg / ED
Dbol 40mg /ED 4 doser

Week 2
Test p 40mg / ED
Dbol 40mg /ED 4 doser
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 3
Test p 50mg / ED
tren a 30mg / ED
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 4
Test p 40mg / ED
tren a 25mg / ED
Winstrol 40mg / ED (4 doses)
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 5
Test p 40mg / ED
tren a 25mg / ED
Winstrol 40mg / dag (4 doses)
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 6
Test p 40mg/ ED
tren a 25mg / ED
Winstrol 40mg / ED(4 doses)
HCG 500iu / ED
armidex 0.5mg / EOD

Week 7
PCT
HCG 500iu / ED
Clomid 200mg first day (4 doser) / Rest of week 150mg on 3 doses troughout the day.
Nolva 40mg first day (2 doser) / Rest of week 20mg in the morning.

Week 8
Clomid 100mg ED on 2 does
Nolva 20mg på ED

Week 9
Clomid 50mg ED
Nolva 20 ED

Week 10
Clomid 50mg ED morning.
Nolva 20 ED

Week 11
Clomid 50mg ED morning.

Week 12
CLomid 50g ed morning

 

[scorob777]

You are kinda changing things around, a couple posts up you had test pyramiding up from 40 to 70mg/d and tren 25 to 50 mg/d, now you are constant throughout. I'm not a fan of pyramiding since I find estrogen control to be one of the hardest things we do, hard to land on an AI dose when everything else is still changing.

I like to think in weekly doses, so on your last post 40mg/d test is 280 mg/wk. That's a pretty light dose, ok if other compounds are doing the heavy lifting. For that dose 0.5 adex EOD is too much by at least 2x, though might be ok for weeks 1 & 2 when you have dbol in the mix. To be honest I like the 70mg/day test and 50mg/day tren dose a couple posts up - it seems like you are looking for a big kick over a really short period of time, and this higher dose would have a better chance of doing it.

Week 7 starting PCT immediately after week 6 injecting ED - yes you are taking all very short esters, the ace should be completely gone in a week, and the prop mostly gone in 9 days or so. If I was you I'd take the HCG in week 7, but hold off on clomid & nolva until week 8, and then run them to week 13.

For HCG you might want to think about 500 iu p/w for weeks 1 to 6, then 1000 ed for week 7. I know the cycle is short and you are young, but this will keep the boys fully fluffed up.

 

[oldmusclemike]

You definitely misunderstood that. Mast doesn't replace an ai..

There is so much crazy about this proposed cycle I can't begin to address it. All this trying to pyramid your test is bunk.

ANYWAY, what do you not understand about Mast not being an AI. Mast is a steroid and does NOT help control Estrogen. Mast does not aromatize so it does not add to estrogen problems. Mast cannot do anything to hold down the aromatization of another compound. Such as Test or Dbol or other. YOU need to UNDERSTAND THAT.

Have to read up on what my friend told me. Thanks![/QUOTE

This ^^^ well you should be reading up on EVERYTHING the EVERYONE tells you. I don't ask you to accept my word as truth and fact , but to take my word and research it. That's what we do here is give you info we experienced and read and put together as fact and then try to point you in the direction to see and read up for yourself to back up what we say. Go for it man....

 

[oldmusclemike]

Now OP I want to address "gains" you should be real pleased with a 10 lb gain if LMM.

Let me tell you the facts and you can research and Google this.... Here I go again Lol

Depending on some variables, age years in the sport, cycles and more ,...a man can only gain 15-20lbs of Lean Muscle Mass in one year that's 12 months. This with or without AAS. In a 12 week cycle usually anything more then 5 lbs will be water. Imagine if we gained 10 lbs of LMM on every cycle, 2 or even 3 cycles per year and in 5 years that would be like 100 - 150 lbs or more. Can you imagine 100lbs of LMM. Remember LMM. As I said variables exist in the 15-20 lbs a year depending on a newbie or a seasoned Vet.

SO my lacking example proves to be right. But now back that down to one cycle and most anything above 5 lbs is water n glycogen etc..


PS: look at some of the stats from the Pro's like the Olympians , they gain 3-5 pounds in a year show to show.

 

[PapaNoel]

You are kinda changing things around, a couple posts up you had test pyramiding up from 40 to 70mg/d and tren 25 to 50 mg/d, now you are constant throughout. I'm not a fan of pyramiding since I find estrogen control to be one of the hardest things we do, hard to land on an AI dose when everything else is still changing.

I like to think in weekly doses, so on your last post 40mg/d test is 280 mg/wk. That's a pretty light dose, ok if other compounds are doing the heavy lifting. For that dose 0.5 adex EOD is too much by at least 2x, though might be ok for weeks 1 & 2 when you have dbol in the mix. To be honest I like the 70mg/day test and 50mg/day tren dose a couple posts up - it seems like you are looking for a big kick over a really short period of time, and this higher dose would have a better chance of doing it.

Week 7 starting PCT immediately after week 6 injecting ED - yes you are taking all very short esters, the ace should be completely gone in a week, and the prop mostly gone in 9 days or so. If I was you I'd take the HCG in week 7, but hold off on clomid & nolva until week 8, and then run them to week 13.

For HCG you might want to think about 500 iu p/w for weeks 1 to 6, then 1000 ed for week 7. I know the cycle is short and you are young, but this will keep the boys fully fluffed up.

Yes I am. I'd call it learning as I go. Im trying to take peoples advice, im trying to research on my own and then come up with a conclusion based on whats infront of me.
But like i stated a couple times. I'm a beginner, i probably shouldnt have ran the stack I did as my first.

But here I am.
My goal is to maximize gains while minimizing sides. Get in there boom, get out

Im gonna follow your advice tho and run HGH 4iu(So confusing, some write IU in thousands, some in single digits) on 2 daily doses (morning, afternoon) for the whole cycle and also PCT. Holy hell its expensive haha. I can only get my hand on simpleex i think the brand name was. Any good ? Getting 90 ui for about 400 euros, not 100% sure on conversion rates.
I dont wanna post all my updated plans but I actually removed armidex from week 1 and from 4 an onwards and only running it when i run dbol.

Overall very solid advice, goes along with my own thoughts and ideas
Thanks

 

[PapaNoel]

There is so much crazy about this proposed cycle I can't begin to address it. All this trying to pyramid your test is bunk.

ANYWAY, what do you not understand about Mast not being an AI. Mast is a steroid and does NOT help control Estrogen. Mast does not aromatize so it does not add to estrogen problems. Mast cannot do anything to hold down the aromatization of another compound. Such as Test or Dbol or other. YOU need to UNDERSTAND THAT.

Have to read up on what my friend told me. Thanks![/QUOTE

This ^^^ well you should be reading up on EVERYTHING the EVERYONE tells you. I don't ask you to accept my word as truth and fact , but to take my word and research it. That's what we do here is give you info we experienced and read and put together as fact and then try to point you in the direction to see and read up for yourself to back up what we say. Go for it man....

As i mentioned in the post above, i understand its looking a lot of crazy but hopefully before i start, it will look a bit more sane with the help from actually experinced people
Yeh, my friend just explained it bit stupid. I do understand the difference though

Its so much reading and researching ontop of the information being already diluted and from the internet its making my head hurt but im doing my best!