Advice on second cycle (TestP, trenA, dbol / winny)

[LivingBIG]

I have 5 vials(test prop) 100 mg/ml (10 ml)
My proposed plan will use 4480/5000 mg.
Should i up my last week to 100mg or will it just screw my blood levels up ?
Or any extra beneficial week to up dosage abit ?
I don't mind wasting it but couldn't find an answer for it.

Thanks!

Just leave it in the vial for next cycle lol

 

[oldmusclemike]

I'm aware this will probably be considered a very stupid question around here but I cant find a real answer to it

I've seen a lot of people mention you can only put on about 4-5 lbs of LMM / year, with or without AAS.
So my question is this... If you cant go over your natural genetic "muscle production", why even bother taking steroids to begin with ?
I was under the impression you could push past your genetic abilities so to speak ?

Sorry if its a lot of questions but I'm starting soon and I want this cycle to be "perfect".
Everytime i think about my first cycle i cringe a lil inside knowing both how unprepared, stupid and not realizing just how much work and effort you really need to put into it all.
I hear people call it a lifestyle...i call it a second job lol ;D

HI santa666 sorry I'm late getting back............. :
TO all y friends on O'logy. I'm without a laptop / computer for a while so it's hard to keep up here on O'logy using just my phone. I can't type worth a shit on a BIG keyboard anyway, So I will be posting less..

Santa man it is a life style for those that are in it for the long haul. You've heard it said it's a marathon not a sprint. Know as you mentioned above about building / growing LMM you have a typo or a mistake. A man can only build 15-20 lbs on LMM in one year 12-14 months generally.

There are many variables such as age, length of years training, the training, the diet and the rest, etc ... A young ,man just starting out lean with or without steroids can gain much to the higher poundage. A seasoned Vet with years of training will gain less as the age, the age of muscle maturity through training and the size and weight of the existing LMM will begin to show diminishing returns. IE: the pro's can only gain 3-4 ish pounds of LEAN MUSCLE MASS a year. Much more discussion !!

A guy wanting to put on a solid one (1) inch on his arms usually will take a year.... YOU MUST UNDERSTAND this is when staring out a man is lean/ cut (beach time for you ) lol l Cycling or not, after bulking all year (whatever) and then dieting down , getting back lean and cut he will only have gained 15-20. Generally speaking 3-6 months after a cycle when all water / n fluids are back to normal you will see at ,most a 3-6 pound gain/. This is dry to bulk to dry. IF someone cuts his off time and runs 3 cycles a year you can take thsat 3-6 pound solid gain x 3 and what you have is 15-20 pounds..

Holding gains... Ha how to hold on to the gains. Ya see if you are still training HARD and eating right you can hold that LMM. .Key words solid mass. The LMM is muscle fiber keep working and feeding it will stay. Key of course is keepin on doin what you are doin.

Why do steroids is because it helps metabolize protein into muscle at a higher and more efficient rate. The rate of recovery is enhanced and the strength boost gives you the ability to lift heavier , hence build quicker and increased strength. So even the numbers I mentioned as to size n weight gains is hard to accomplish without AAS as time and training years go on. I will add this, steroids are fun. There are more but I'll stop.

Good luck

 

[oldmusclemike]

Last question for tonight.

Last cycle i used 21g draw and 23g needles for pinning.
No matter "where" I pinned in my delts I had pain for 1-3 days. Making it impossible to train shoulders the same day.
This time i bought, 21g, 23g, 25g, 27g needles and will mostly use 25g/27g for all pinning.

But im curious what I could have done wrong. I still got this pain when my PT injected for me, just less pain.
Any ideas why ? Never had any pain in butt/quads what so ever.

With ED pinning I'll be rotating, both ass checks, quads and delts. So about 1 area per week (I'll rotate and use butt 3 times per week i guess)
Sounds reasonable ?

Sorry for the spam tonight but its getting close and im super excited and really wanna do it right this time.
My fuckup last cycle was not listening to everyone with actual experience. (yes, yes i know, hindsight is 20/20.. )

Ya know I will never understand all this drawing with this or that and injecting with another point then switching to this or that. I agree with , it seems there is something in the gear hurting you when you pin. Even a dull point and a little shakiness should not give you this PIP problem. If you can try another source even if you can get someone to give you a shot of theirs one time to see.

Ya know I draw with a 23G 1" and pin with the same. If I draw from more then two (2) vials I might switch out. True story : :Shit I had 12 minutes to catch the bus last week. Bus stop at end of my drive. SO I'm out the door, OH NO I say, ran back in opened the safe pulled out the Test Prop, drew 1-1/2 mL's pulled my sleeve, pinned my test , put it away and out the door. NOt more the 3--4 minutes. Really all the fuss and bother.

If I can take the time ( what time ) to pin with a 23 or 25 G I can slow down to draw with a 23G. Only in this sport does anyone draw and switch. Hospitals , nurses, doctors don't and by the way they do not aspirate. If you are aspirating I will suggest you stop. Waist of time, more movement and just plain NOT NEEDED. You will never hold that point in the vein long enough to get more then a minuscule drop of gear in the vein.

 

[PapaNoel]

Just leave it in the vial for next cycle lol

Just shows how fresh I really im lol.
Didn't even occur to me at all.

 

[PapaNoel]

TO all y friends on O'logy. I'm without a laptop / computer for a while
Good luck

Thanks for taking the time explaining it (My numbers were just off, i only remembered you mention it before and it stuck in back of my mind)
Great answer and information, makes a lot more sense now

 

[PapaNoel]

Ya know I will never understand all this drawing with this or that and injecting with another point then switching to this or that. I agree with , it seems there is something in the gear hurting you when you pin. Even a dull point and a little shakiness should not give you this PIP problem. If you can try another source even if you can get someone to give you a shot of theirs one time to see.

Ya know I draw with a 23G 1" and pin with the same. If I draw from more then two (2) vials I might switch out. True story : :Shit I had 12 minutes to catch the bus last week. Bus stop at end of my drive. SO I'm out the door, OH NO I say, ran back in opened the safe pulled out the Test Prop, drew 1-1/2 mL's pulled my sleeve, pinned my test , put it away and out the door. NOt more the 3--4 minutes. Really all the fuss and bother.

If I can take the time ( what time ) to pin with a 23 or 25 G I can slow down to draw with a 23G. Only in this sport does anyone draw and switch. Hospitals , nurses, doctors don't and by the way they do not aspirate. If you are aspirating I will suggest you stop. Waist of time, more movement and just plain NOT NEEDED. You will never hold that point in the vein long enough to get more then a minuscule drop of gear in the vein.

I've bought different brands this time, will see if problem is there or maybe worse this time lol.
I saw some horror pictures of microscope showing how crooked needles looked after just 2-3 draws.
Read somewhere about tissue scaring and rupture from shooting to fast so bought smaller needles to help me slow down.

Had no idea about the aspiration, my supplier said i could potentially die if i shot into a vein so always done it :O
Very interesting indeed. Delts especially was insanely hard to even aspirate to begin with, might have added to my pip with all the moving around ?

 

[oldmusclemike]

Ah ha ha haa about the aspiration...

Listen I keep talking about writing a sticky on this aspirating procedure and I might do it.

Ok I'll try to be short, hmm Your veins for the most part are running perpendicularly to the needle you are pinning with as doing IM injections. Think,.... glutes, shoulders, quads, etc.. you penetrate perpendicularly to the veins running up and down your body.

AS I am vastly experienced when you main line ( IV ) into your vein you go in in the same direction as the vein and a decreased angle as to slip in ( penetrate) and stay in. Intentionally stay without pushing thru the other end and out, or the side or just slipping back out so you cannot inject into the vein. Ooops. This all while looking and aiming at this vein. Have you any idea as to how hard it is, why all the fvcked junkie arms... cause this is not just that easy.

So to IM inject Test or a hormone into a perpendicular running vein, blindly stay in and slowly inject the compound into the vein. Have you or anyone on here heard of anyone in all these years heard of a detrimental mishap of this nature ? NOPE Ha !
The medical field NO LONGER teaches it and does not aspirate.

For us it causes in needed wiggle time with the instrument in our hands as wee try to draw etc..
A clean and quick stab, puncture , all the way, steady pressure to the bottom , wait a few seconds if you want and a swift , quick exit.

I have and I have heard of getting what we think was a drop or so into the blood stream and only a slight quick dizzy short lived type episode. NOTHING for me to even skip a beat in any form or fashion.



PS: Please remember there are capillaries that carry to and some deliver from the veins. Just because we see blood dose not necessarily mean we hit a vein. When we spew blood sometimes when we withdraw out ( glutes do much ) is usually due to PIERCING the vein going THREW and or when passing THREW OUT. IT means nothing

 

[PapaNoel]

Ah ha ha haa about the aspiration...
Listen I keep talking about writing a sticky on this aspirating procedure and I might do it.

Very interesting read and when I think about what you're saying it really does make sense.
Countless times nurses have fucked up and having to pin multiple times to hit the vein.

One question though, I've read that the actual pump/injection should take 45-60 seconds to avoid tissue rupture in the muscle.
How cautious should I be about needle/pin scaring from pinning same spot to often ? Read people saying maximum 1 area per week. Any truth to those two ?

Awesome information as usual from you. Thanks man

 

[PapaNoel]

Gonna do another BW around xmas and was wondering.
Should I add FSH/Estrogen panel or should I wait until 1 month into cycle ?
I dont mind getting reference values off cycle but everything costs money lol

 

[casanovaaa]

Gonna do another BW around xmas and was wondering.
Should I add FSH/Estrogen panel or should I wait until 1 month into cycle ?
I dont mind getting reference values off cycle but everything costs money lol

i always get full panels done so i can be on top of it all.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Very interesting read and when I think about what you're saying it really does make sense.
Countless times nurses have fucked up and having to pin multiple times to hit the vein.

One question though, I've read that the actual pump/injection should take 45-60 seconds to avoid tissue rupture in the muscle.
How cautious should I be about needle/pin scaring from pinning same spot to often ? Read people saying maximum 1 area per week. Any truth to those two ?

Awesome information as usual from you. Thanks man

Ya know I don't really pay attention to all the little stuff. If you can come up with a rotation schedule that makes sense and works for you do it. A little more times here n there or a few seconds shorter on injecting time , will not make any crucial difference.

For me, only, I inject fast and maybe a bit hard. I can feel when I'm pushing too fast.

Listen just like the common sense thinking about aspiration and needle angles a little common sense will you see the same thinking and results in regard to the do this or that to rotate or this or that to inject just this slowly. You know the working theory of the nature of these things so you will find your nitch while being as safe as possible.

Good Luck

 

[PapaNoel]

Ya know I don't really pay attention to all the little stuff. If you can come up with a rotation schedule that makes sense and works for you do it. A little more times here n there or a few seconds shorter on injecting time , will not make any crucial difference.
Good Luck

I somewhat feel i'm a bit overcompensating for my last cycle that in hindsight was just plain horrible. The only good thing is I hopefully learned a lesson!
So now im trying to make everything perfect but I love your common sense approach to things, kinda "dont fix what aint broken". Thanks

Thinking of doing a time lapse with daily pictures for ON+PCT. I'd have to crop face but maybe something you guys want to see ?


,

 

[scorob777]

I'm in

 

[oldmusclemike]

Hell yeah man ... We love it when some of you do Cycle Logs.
We welcome you to do a show n tell. Past, present and on... . Oh hey you got any BB / PL cycler friends get em on board.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Tankman you're always in....

 

[PapaNoel]

Will do a measurements before i start cycle, get all stats, current BW, some pre pictures etc.
Last time we did weekly stats/measurements so i'll include those and pictures in the logs

 

[oldmusclemike]

GOOD Deal

OMM

 

[PapaNoel]

Forgot I have two tatto sessions planned, thats stupidly placed mid cycle.
Normally they want you to avoid training for a week. Minimum 3 days.

Waited 6+ months for this appointment and almost as long for my cycle...

What do you guys with experience and tattoos say ?
No training at all ?
Minimum waiting time ?
Train but very light and try to avoid sweating (so easy on aas...not)
Any "special" trick so i can do both ?

Thanks

 

[oldmusclemike]

Forgot I have two tatto sessions planned, thats stupidly placed mid cycle.
Normally they want you to avoid training for a week. Minimum 3 days.

Waited 6+ months for this appointment and almost as long for my cycle...

What do you guys with experience and tattoos say ?
No training at all ?
Minimum waiting time ?
Train but very light and try to avoid sweating (so easy on aas...not)
Any "special" trick so i can do both ?

Thanks

Let me set the this to rest again by some Simple minded thinking PLUS my experience with this taking time off during cycle.

Remember this is a marathon not a sprint. Remember that we need REST to repair and grow. A thought ... during cycle we are training monsters and are extra hard at it. It NEVER hurts to take a week off. As a matter of fact I myself due to injuries, tendonitis etc... and have been forced to take some time off DURING a cycles more then once in my BB career. . A week and a few days here and there will only secure good recovery as to where you are at the time. I have been on cycle just training my ass off... got tired and have taken a day or 3 off only to come back strong.

Not bashing... but why would anyone consider we would loose gains or slow down our growth while on steroids just because we missed a week or two. YOU were building muscle before cycle, during cycle and will continue afterwards if you continue eating and training. Please , think , this is not rocket science. A missed injection or two or a week or two off during a 12 PLUS week cycle you will never notice. Never. Go easy light or take time off it will NOT matter.

If you take the week off you will only come back stronger, ha, yep at mid cycle you wil train again like a beast.


Know this all the synergistic activity of a cycle does not stop suddenly just because we took a few days or so off of training. Again our bodies are not digital.

Stop the concern, get the tats and take a few days off. It will do you good, Trust me. I've been around. TY
OMM

 

[oldmusclemike]

In a nutshell ... Take a week off and get the tattoos you made an important appointment you have everyday for the rest of your life to train.

You silly boy