Are you in the Healthiest range of TT??

[halfape211]

I've noticed that some or many here take the dose of T that makes them 'feel good'. And believe me, feeling good or being happy is important. Some keep their TT above TRT levels of 1200TT and others live in the 600 TT range. I think our bodies are all different and we all need different solutions: high T dose; low T dose; HCG; Etc. However various credible TRT medical professionals and credible organizations have proven that as our TT increases to the 'Optimum' of 1200TT, we will be healthier. That there will be less chance of disease. I just want to provide this information and each can decide for themselves. I cannot locate where I found it or I would have provided a link.


under 250 ng/dl - 1.75 increase risk of prostate cancer - Morgentaler 2006
under 288 - increase risk of depression -Zitzmann 2006
under 432 - increase risk of decrease in sex drive -Zitzmann 2006
under 600 - increase risk of Alkzheimers Disease evidence in brain - Ding EL 2006
under 700 - increase risk of Carotid Artery thickening - 2006; Elevated Blood Pressure - 1998 & 2006; Muscle atrophy - 1006 & 2001; Increased body fat - 2007; Decreased cognitive function - 2004; Increased overall cardio and Cancer deaths - 2007
800-1200 - optimal health- minimal to no disease - Hertoughe 2013

With this kind of info out there why do doctors want people to be less than the 800-1200 range?? Unfortunately, the answer in some cases is to negate legal action. No surprise - The legal system is ruining your health care.

I had posted this long, long ago under another topic, but thought it deserved it's own thread. I hope it provides some knowledge for those who are evaluating their present level of TT. Lastly I do not criticize those who are happy with their present "lower than optimal" level of TT.

I think everyone would be very interested to hear from those who want to be below "optimal" and those who are only happy with 1200TT and above

 

[Roush]

With this kind of info out there why do doctors want people to be less than the 800-1200 range??

because doctors are trained to 'stop the bleeding' -- that is, correct a problem or normalize a medical situation. they are NOT trained to 'make optimal' . so, simply replacing a guys low natty test, with normal test, is a classic 'normalizing a medical condition' way of thinking.

you'd think if they were going to treat a problem they would think bigger then just normalizing the situation and instead try to 'optimize' it so the the problem is not only just fixed, but better then before.

 

[Roush]

heres an example --

If a guy is near sited with say 20/15 vision, and he is working with a power saw and gets metal lodged in his eyes and has to go into emergency surgery ,, the surgeon will be happy TO JUST fix the guys eye and restore his 'normal' bad vision . BUT what if while the surgeon is in there he can actually make the eyes better then they were to begin with , not just fix the problem (and the guy comes out 20/20)

docs just don't seem to think that way though

 

[Utm18]

Roush couldnt agree with you more. My doc doesnt want me above 500.

 

[Roush]

Roush couldnt agree with you more. My doc doesnt want me above 500.

you might ask him "hey doc, if you don't want me above 500 and you think 500 is the healthiest range to be in ,, do you then suggest guys that have naturally high levels of test in the 900 range actually take something to LOWER their naturally high testosterone levels"

 

[halfape211]

The legal system and the Doctors are definitely part of the problem. What we can do is gain knowledge and use this knowledge to help ourselves and others. I hope these studies open a few eyes, and bring on more knowledge from our members comments. And god knows there is a ton of knowledge to be had from our members.

And as for me, I suffer very noticeable cognition problems when I'm in the 600-800TT range!! I guess my body is really screwed up.
Plus I want to have the healthy benefits of the studies mentioned above, so I want to be near 1200TT. On the surface, it seems like a no brainer! But I'm sure there are good points or examples for both sides of this discussion.

I think everyone would be very interested to hear from those who want to be below "optimal" and those who are only happy with 1200TT and above.

 

[halfape211]

Roush couldnt agree with you more. My doc doesnt want me above 500.

You poor man. Present recent research to him and look for a real doctor, ASAP.

 

[Utm18]

Ive been in the process of looking. Not much luck as of yet.

 

[Milton]

heres an example --

If a guy is near sited with say 20/15 vision, and he is working with a power saw and gets metal lodged in his eyes and has to go into emergency surgery ,, the surgeon will be happy TO JUST fix the guys eye and restore his 'normal' bad vision . BUT what if while the surgeon is in there he can actually make the eyes better then they were to begin with , not just fix the problem (and the guy comes out 20/20)

docs just don't seem to think that way though

oh I'm sure that they would do it if they had an incentive of say a hundred thousand bucks or so. Money talks.

 

[halfwit]

On top of the other replies, I would also like to offer that there is a stigma in which AAS is considered unethical in nature due to how it's viewed socially.

You can thank the war on drugs for that one.

Also, many doctors still think testosterone is responsible for many risks, and vulture lawyers don't help the matter. I still see ads from law firms saying how SURVIVORS of testosterone replacement (lol, really?!) may qualify for legal compensation for blood clots, prostate cancer, etc because many don't know (including doctors) that these are PREVENTABLE in the vast majority of cases by simply donating blood or controlling estradiol.

Time will hopefully fix this issue, but don't expect changes soon as we also still have dipshits out there thinking TRT is how you get JACKED and tan.

My .02c

 

[Graeme]

You can find some of Zitzmann's numbers in this presentation. It's a collection of Powerpoint slides in a PDF, so there isn't a huge amount of detail.

http://www.issmsmsna2012.org/present/_pdf/1033.pdf

It's a little bit more nuanced than just considering the total testosterone level. CAG repeats, which downgrade androgen receptors are mentioned, whilst high SHBG is also touched upon.

 

[Graeme]

And there are a few more comments by Zitzmann on CAG repeats and levels in this article.

http://www.menshealthboston.com/pdf...ynthesis-of-International-Expert-Opinions.pdf

 

[AverageMan]

My TRT doc is specialized in hrt and has no issue keeping me at 1100 - and this is my through . He has actually cited the studies above as justification in keeping my TT this high.

Side note - at this level ivr started to develop some awesome backnee. Yes my e2 is in perfect range.

Summer is around the corner. Hope the sun will help clear things up.

 

[halfape211]

And there are a few more comments by Zitzmann on CAG repeats and levels in this article.

http://www.menshealthboston.com/pdf...ynthesis-of-International-Expert-Opinions.pdf

Good articles. Knowledge is power and we need some power when we are at the mercy of doctors, etc.

I wonder how many here think that they should be less than 1200TT, and more importantly why? There indeed, may be very good reasons, that would be helpful and interesting to know why.

 

[halfape211]

My TRT doc is specialized in hrt and has no issue keeping me at 1100 - and this is my through . He has actually cited the studies above as justification in keeping my TT this high.

Side note - at this level ivr started to develop some awesome backnee. Yes my e2 is in perfect range.

Summer is around the corner. Hope the sun will help clear things up.

You're so lucky for your doctor to know the medical benefits of being near 1200. My doctor is also a specialist in the field of hormones and Anti-Aging. And although he knows of these studies, I had to push him to get above 1000. (In all seriousness, because of potential litigation and government bureaucratic controls.) Did you spend much time at lower TT, before you got to 1200? And how did that feel?

 

[AverageMan]

You're so lucky for your doctor to know the medical benefits of being near 1200. My doctor is also a specialist in the field of hormones and Anti-Aging. And although he knows of these studies, I had to push him to get above 1000. (In all seriousness, because of potential litigation and government bureaucratic controls.) Did you spend much time at lower TT, before you got to 1200? And how did that feel?

I was around 200 TT prior to starting TRTin August of last year. I went straight from that to 1100, so i don't have a good feel for say 600 or 700.

I don't have cazy strength or really feel all that different from 200. Yes I feel better but not amazing. Losing fat with a clean diet is easier and muscle mass has increased, but not wildly.

Oh and I was at 200 for about 8 years

 

[halfape211]

I was around 200 TT prior to starting TRTin August of last year. I went straight from that to 1100, so i don't have a good feel for say 600 or 700.

I don't have cazy strength or really feel all that different from 200. Yes I feel better but not amazing. Losing fat with a clean diet is easier and muscle mass has increased, but not wildly.

Oh and I was at 200 for about 8 years

Regarding feeling better, have you looked at the benefits of HCG? That may add some relief. Regarding strength, I too did not see much difference between 300 and 1000+. I was actually noticeably stronger before TRT, but I was doing strength training and not the hypertrophy training, that I'm doing now.

 

[Mprtz]

One reason a man might have to settle for less than 1200 is that hematocrit isn't easy to manage for everyone, despite donating blood.

Just tested and I'm at 19 ferritin (30-400) and 53.4 HCT (37.5 - 51)... between a rock and a hard place.

I may have to drop my dose (more) in the hope that this improves.

Others might have unmanageable acne at those levels. Some don't want to take an AI for TRT, etc.

 

[Virginian]

My insurance company (Blue Cross/Blue Shield( will cover the cost of testosterone, but only if my test levels are below 800. Otherwise, no.

I like to run 1100-1200, but I also like to have the insurance company pay for my test cyp. Solution: Take enough test to run at 1100-1200, but before a blood test, skip a couple of injections until I think my test levels will be below 800, then have blood drawn. So far it has worked. (I'm a number kind of guy, so I can estimate my test levels pretty well.)

 

[halfape211]

One reason a man might have to settle for less than 1200 is that hematocrit isn't easy to manage for everyone, despite donating blood.

Just tested and I'm at 19 ferritin (30-400) and 53.4 HCT (37.5 - 51)... between a rock and a hard place.

I may have to drop my dose (more) in the hope that this improves.

Others might have unmanageable acne at those levels. Some don't want to take an AI for TRT, etc.

Very good points. So some may want the 1200, but cannot do because of other problems. Interesting. I haven't experienced that quandary YET.