Are you in the Healthiest range of TT??

[halfape211]

My insurance company (Blue Cross/Blue Shield( will cover the cost of testosterone, but only if my test levels are below 800. Otherwise, no.

I like to run 1100-1200, but I also like to have the insurance company pay for my test cyp. Solution: Take enough test to run at 1100-1200, but before a blood test, skip a couple of injections until I think my test levels will be below 800, then have blood drawn. So far it has worked. (I'm a number kind of guy, so I can estimate my test levels pretty well.)

You're a smart cookie! lol It's amazing what people have to do just to be healthy. Do you detect any difference at 800 or are you not at 800 long enough to get a feel for it?

 

[Roush]

just a side note to this thread -- I read that guys that are in the 'down turn' age of life , 40 years old or so,, that they need to be in the 800+ ng/dl test range to continue to build muscle at that age .. getting below that range at that age means you can really only maintain muscle mass or prevent atrophy *

* this does not come from any research I've done. this is straight from Jerry Brainum ***8230; just thought I would throw it out there

 

[halfape211]

just a side note to this thread -- I read that guys that are in the 'down turn' age of life , 40 years old or so,, that they need to be in the 800+ ng/dl test range to continue to build muscle at that age .. getting below that range at that age means you can really only maintain muscle mass or prevent atrophy *

* this does not come from any research I've done. this is straight from Jerry Brainum ***8230; just thought I would throw it out there

Great info. That backs up one of the studies in my first post which shows muscle atrophy under 700TT. So if it wasn't bad enough that we lose muscle every year after age 40, some idiot doctors keep TT numbers under 700 or 800. No wonder some old men are so frail and weak.

 

[Alpin]

Ya, but guys...
HCT climbs quicker in the 800 + range...
It means more donations and wreaks havoc on ferritin levels...
Ya it's nice to have that high T but there's drawback's...

 

[AverageMan]

Agree 100% about the hct issues. My TRT doc uses RBC ininstead of hct. I'm finding RBC to be creeping up. I used to donate 3x a year but now I'm counting down the days till I can donate again. I'm now donating every 56 days. We'll see is this is enouph to keep RBC in check.

As an example. I donated blood 3 weeks prior to my TRT blood work and RBC was still at 5.8.

 

[halfape211]

Ya, but guys...
HCT climbs quicker in the 800 + range...
It means more donations and wreaks havoc on ferritin levels...
Ya it's nice to have that high T but there's drawback's...

It's unfortunate for those that cannot get to 1200 without health problems. I hope I find ways to control possible problems like high HCT, low ferritin, if it happens to me.So far I have no problems with these sides.
I wonder if a person searched hard enough, could they find ways around these problems?

 

[halfape211]

Agree 100% about the hct issues. My TRT doc uses RBC ininstead of hct. I'm finding RBC to be creeping up. I used to donate 3x a year but now I'm counting down the days till I can donate again. I'm now donating every 56 days. We'll see is this is enouph to keep RBC in check.

As an example. I donated blood 3 weeks prior to my TRT blood work and RBC was still at 5.8.

Any idea of why your doctor uses RBC, rather than HCT?

 

[Mprtz]

It's unfortunate for those that cannot get to 1200 without health problems. I hope I find ways to control possible problems like high HCT, low ferritin, if it happens to me.So far I have no problems with these sides.
I wonder if a person searched hard enough, could they find ways around these problems?

I've searched pretty hard... and have yet to come up with another approach.
Certainly apheresis has some advantages over whole blood donation because the body has the opportunity to reabsorb some of the iron from the RBCs lost to hemolysis.

There's a drug called hydroxurea which is used to treat polycythemia, but its a serious drug with serious sides including carcinogenesis.

I've looked into hepcidin, but it isn't at all easily available (research use with no track record), plus hepcidin testing (though an ELISA kit exists) is not widely available.

 

[halfape211]

I've searched pretty hard... and have yet to come up with another approach.
Certainly apheresis has some advantages over whole blood donation because the body has the opportunity to reabsorb some of the iron from the RBCs lost to hemolysis.

There's a drug called hydroxurea which is used to treat polycythemia, but its a serious drug with serious sides including carcinogenesis.

I've looked into hepcidin, but it isn't at all easily available (research use with no track record), plus hepcidin testing (though an ELISA kit exists) is not widely available.

I see what you mean.

 

[Virginian]

You're a smart cookie! lol It's amazing what people have to do just to be healthy. Do you detect any difference at 800 or are you not at 800 long enough to get a feel for it?

I still feel very good at 800. I drop down in dose to be in the 800s when I will be on an extended time when I will not be able to do much exercising. I like higher levels than 800s because it seems that I can get better muscle growth at higher levels. Am I absolutely positive? No, but it seems to me like I get more muscle growth at 1200 than at 800.

 

[Virginian]

HCT climbs quicker in the 800 + range...
It means more donations and wreaks havoc on ferritin levels...
Ya it's nice to have that high T but there's drawback's...

That's interesting. First time I can recall anyone mentioning problems with low ferritin levels. I watch hemocrit and donate a few times a year. I don't think I have ever been checked for ferritin.

 

[Mprtz]

That's interesting. First time I can recall anyone mentioning problems with low ferritin levels. I watch hemocrit and donate a few times a year. I don't think I have ever been checked for ferritin.

I never checked ferritin either until a year ago when I developed a benign (but annoying and distressing) cardiac arrhythmia.

At that time, it was 11 (30-400). Now, a year later, the arrhythmia has returned and when I checked it, ferritin is low again. I know it was at least in range (40) in the interim.

Blood banks really should be checking ferritin for their super-donors, but it isn't in their interest to find costly non-FDA mandated reasons to disqualify their best donors. Also, to be fair, high HCT and low ferritin don't normally go together outside of the distorted blood profile that can result from exogenous testosterone administration.

BTW props to Apollon for putting ferritin on my radar.

 

[halfape211]

I never checked ferritin either until a year ago when I developed a benign (but annoying and distressing) cardiac arrhythmia.

At that time, it was 11 (30-400). Now, a year later, the arrhythmia has returned and when I checked it, ferritin is low again. I know it was at least in range (40) in the interim.

Blood banks really should be checking ferritin for their super-donors, but it isn't in their interest to find costly non-FDA mandated reasons to disqualify their best donors. Also, to be fair, high HCT and low ferritin don't normally go together outside of the distorted blood profile that can result from exogenous testosterone administration.

BTW props to Apollon for putting ferritin on my radar.

Yes, my thanks to Apollon and Mprtz. I had not yet learned the downside of low ferritin. My HCT is on the borderline so with more blood donations I will keep an eye on ferritin, which is 81 now.

 

[halfape211]

I still feel very good at 800. I drop down in dose to be in the 800s when I will be on an extended time when I will not be able to do much exercising. I like higher levels than 800s because it seems that I can get better muscle growth at higher levels. Am I absolutely positive? No, but it seems to me like I get more muscle growth at 1200 than at 800.

I also gain strength much better at 1200 than 600-800. Sometimes I wonder if it is a state of mind, because strength seems change so quickly when I increase my TT. I also wonder if many others feel good at 600-800TT levels and are satisfied with not being at 1200.

 

[AverageMan]

Any idea of why your doctor uses RBC, rather than HCT?

In the end, HCT and RBC go hand in hand - they are directly related. I also think it has something to do with the arrangement he has with a local lab. He uses a specific blood panel that is pretty cheap, and I appreciate that.

I'm being educated on ferritin in this thread. Is there a supp that can be taken should one have low ferritin?

 

[halfape211]

In the end, HCT and RBC go hand in hand - they are directly related. I also think it has something to do with the arrangement he has with a local lab. He uses a specific blood panel that is pretty cheap, and I appreciate that.

I'm being educated on ferritin in this thread. Is there a supp that can be taken should one have low ferritin?

Good question. I wonder if you supplemented with iron, would it raise your hematocrit or RBC readings?