Aside from nutrition and workout programs, what are other reasons of not progressing?

[RustySword]

While diet plays a huge role, what are some other factors leading to one's plateau?
I spoke with my lecturer who teaches us exercise physiology and he was unable to provide an answer.
He told me to consult with an endocrinologist or an urologist.

I'm basically stuck at 75kgs.
When I ate more, literally 100% of the weight gained was fat.
> Cut back to 75kgs, tried a diff workout program.
> Bulked, same thing happened.
> Cut back to 75kgs, tried a diff nutrition program.
> Bulked, same thing happened.

Tried it about 4 times, with no luck.
ANYBODY I know would make great gains after 75kgs, I have personally trained some of my male clients, easily got them to 80kgs lean.
No magic, no "best program" and no "special diet", decent diet, decent training and everybody I've trained made it to 80kgs lean.
Why can I not rip those last 5kgs of muscles?

One of my friends said "Just follow my nutrition and my workout program, you'll progress".
Everybody is just sure their diet and workout routines are the best, that's false, they're not, there is no secret.
YOU BASICALLY JUST EAT, TRAIN, AND GROW !!! Like all the rest that I've trained, shouldn't be that complicated.
None of them followed a 100% nazi diet or a psychopathic workout routine.

I doubt it, spicing up a bit the workout routine won't get me those last kgs of muscles.
Or changing up the timing or diff sources won't do the trick either, I eat pretty basic.
Protein sources : chicken breast, fish, eggs and sometimes dairy.
Carb sources : oats, veggies, brown / jasmine rice, whole wheat bread / pasta.
Fat sources : Olive oil, almonds, walnuts, avocado, etc...

What are other reasons except workout program and nutrition? Is it only hormones? Or maybe other reasons I'm not aware of?
I doubt my limit is 75kgs.

 

[Roush]

I'm basically stuck at 75kgs.
When I ate more, literally 100% of the weight gained was fat

how do you know this ? did you get a full body scan?

in bodybuilding 'gaining muscle' is the hardest thing to to , 'losing body fat' is one of the easiest things to do . So , sometimes in order to get where we want and pursue the hardest thing there is to do , putting on muscle , we have to forget about 'fat gain' because again fat loss is the easiest thing to take care of and can be done later.

your probably hitting a muscle gaining plateau because your too afraid of getting fat while trying to put on muscle . so when you start 'feeling' fat , you stop massing and eating a surplus of calories and go right back to cutting or maintenance . you can't gain muscle this way when your at a plateau . you have to commit to the massing. you may need to commit a whole 12 months to just massing until you've put on say 40 pounds of fat and muscle , and then cut after that (the easy part).



note : I'm assuming there are no drugs, hormones, Ped's , that your using . ?? as adding 5kg is extremely easy to do with the right drug protocol in place

 

[Jack Tors]

if the diet is really righteous and your getting enough rest and keeping stress levels down you should be able to make slow gains. Its time for anabolics? ...if your going to stay natty then you basically have to get fat while gaining except it and cut later....to really smash the plateau,,,, skip that summer cut. i did this several times

 

[Danishaesthetics]

Listen to the advice Roush is giving you.

And in addition you have mentioned you only do 10-14 sets for each body part in another post. This might very well be the reason you are not growing ! You have to increase volume to stimulate muscle growth. Bump another set on every one of your exercises in a given split, an example an extra set of bench, an extra set of flies and so on.

And like Roush said given you are natty you'll have to gain fat in order to gain muscle and the more advanced you get in the gym the more of your gains will be fat and water then muscle.

When you bulk and cut do you go straight from bulking to cutting or do you have a maintenance phase in between ? The maintenance phase is recommended as this gets your body used to being at the current size and holding on to the new muscle.

And how long do you bulk for at a time ? I would recommend at least 8 months at a time.

 

[RustySword]

how do you know this ? did you get a full body scan?

in bodybuilding 'gaining muscle' is the hardest thing to to , 'losing body fat' is one of the easiest things to do . So , sometimes in order to get where we want and pursue the hardest thing there is to do , putting on muscle , we have to forget about 'fat gain' because again fat loss is the easiest thing to take care of and can be done later.

your probably hitting a muscle gaining plateau because your too afraid of getting fat while trying to put on muscle . so when you start 'feeling' fat , you stop massing and eating a surplus of calories and go right back to cutting or maintenance . you can't gain muscle this way when your at a plateau . you have to commit to the massing. you may need to commit a whole 12 months to just massing until you've put on say 40 pounds of fat and muscle , and then cut after that (the easy part).



note : I'm assuming there are no drugs, hormones, Ped's , that your using . ?? as adding 5kg is extremely easy to do with the right drug protocol in place

Hey Roush, thanks for the reply!
No, I did not get a full body scan, there's that inaccurate scale, it has a 1-2% deviation, but here's how I know for sure :
Strength did not increase, muscle's mass in the mirror did not increase either, I look chubbier, face got fatter and I always end up at 75kgs.

So yeah, I AM afraid to gain fat, but not afraid to gain weight at all, I can easily gain weight though, I smell food and instantly gain 2 more pounds (lol).
Well the above is a joke, but I really did gain weight AND fat, then I lost bf and got to the exact same point I started bulking, so that's how I pretty much know I haven't progressed.

You assumed right, no drugs, not even using supplements, I sometimes throw in whey if I need to complete my macros for the day.
Now, about the drugs, I did buy T enanthate, purchased HCG and PCT yesterday, I just wanted to get those last kgs of muscles natty before I juice.
Guess it doesn't matter anymore, I booked a trip to Berlin on 30th Dec till 5th of Jan, so I'll start the cycle right when I land.

if the diet is really righteous and your getting enough rest and keeping stress levels down you should be able to make slow gains. Its time for anabolics? ...if your going to stay natty then you basically have to get fat while gaining except it and cut later....to really smash the plateau,,,, skip that summer cut. i did this several times

Diet is alright, I'm not a nazi, but then again, I know many naturals who pushed to 80kgs lean without a 100% strict diet.
I'd say mine is 90% right, 10% decent. I eat pretty simple, main protein sources are eggs, chicken, fish and sometimes dairy.
Carbs sources are oats, whole wheat bread \ pasta, brown \ jasmin rice, nothing fancy, pretty simple.
Fat sources are avocados, almonds, walnuts, olive oil, etc...

Listen to the advice Roush is giving you.

And in addition you have mentioned you only do 10-14 sets for each body part in another post. This might very well be the reason you are not growing ! You have to increase volume to stimulate muscle growth. Bump another set on every one of your exercises in a given split, an example an extra set of bench, an extra set of flies and so on.

And like Roush said given you are natty you'll have to gain fat in order to gain muscle and the more advanced you get in the gym the more of your gains will be fat and water then muscle.

When you bulk and cut do you go straight from bulking to cutting or do you have a maintenance phase in between ? The maintenance phase is recommended as this gets your body used to being at the current size and holding on to the new muscle.

And how long do you bulk for at a time ? I would recommend at least 8 months at a time.

EXACTLY, you also replied to me in a different thread, but I'll gather all my questions below, I won't shove you around from thread to thread.
I do 10-14 sets per body part, avg is 12-13 sets, it depends on how I feel.
Sometimes if I attack my muscles too hard, I'd call it a day at 10 sets, and sometimes I feel I need those extra sets before I finish my workouts.
So it varies between 10 and 14.
I DID think about increasing the volume, but I don't know how to do it the right way, I may need your help here.

My chest workout looks like this :
Bench press 3x5
Incline BP 3x8
Decline BP 3x8
High pulley cable fly 3x8 (Depends on how I feel, I sometimes throw in a single set, sometimes go up to 5 sets).

Should I increase the number of sets in the Bench press exercise as well?
Because I'm afraid too many heavy sets will interfere with recovery.
Or should I only increase the volume in the other lifts that have higher reps in them? What do you think?
Maybe 4 sets of each? That'd be 16 sets.

 

[Danishaesthetics]

I would make an increase all around. 1 set of every exercise and remember to switch your bench from flat to incline and mix it up with dumbbells when you hit a plateau. The same with flies from cable to dumbbell to machine. But stick with an exercise for 4-6 weeks at a time or more if you don't plateau.

I would also change the rep ranges often. For an example when I bench I start out with a weight I can do for about 10 reps and then slowly add weight until I hit a weight I can do for a triple, double and sometimes a single. Rep range would be 10,8,8,6,3 but I'm never fixed about reps. This will make you hit every rep ranges and if you went balls to the walls you should have tapped into every muscle fiber.

And even though you are natty you can easily get away with more volume our body is a wonderful thing and can adapt to almost anything if you give it time. Especially chest, back and legs need high volume.

An example of a chest workout I would do:
Bench as mentioned above (5 sets)
Weighted dips (100 pounds) or incline bench. Rep range 10-6 (4-5 sets)
Bench on a machine (hammerstrenght like) rep range 10-6 (4-5 sets)
Cable flies. Rep range 10-8 (3-4 sets)
Machine or db flies. Rep range 10-8 (3-4 sets)
I will do about 10 sets of tri's right after finishing chest to.

 

[Dickey]

How much of a calorie surplus are you using on your bulk and how long is your bulking period? Is it possible youre ramping up your calories too high too fast and then cutting the bulk short because you're gaining too much fat?

Another suggestion, whether it applies to you or not is that I find many people who train heavy end up focusing on how much weight they are lifting and aren't properly stimulating the muscle. I would suggest dropping the weight for a month or two and like Danish said adding more volume and really focusing on taking the muscle past the burn and to complete failure and see how that works.

Other than that it probably wouldn't be a terrible idea to get your hormones checked, at the very least to see where you're at and start ruling out factors(or potentially finding them).

 

[Anon44]

Overtraining does it for me.

 

[Gainjin260]

Doubled

 

[Gainjin260]

Increase your volume. One of the bigger dudes on this forum does about 700 reps per body part. That's once a week in one workout. You're doing 91 reps per workout.

You are not this dude, so don't try this at home- and he's definitely enhanced, but even when he's not on cycle he Does the same reps and sets only with less weight.

Getting big takes work. I say up the volume to something like Danish suggested then up it from there once gains slow down again.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/688957-some-updates-cycle-pics-230lb.html

 

[Roush]

My chest workout looks like this :
Bench press 3x5
Incline BP 3x8
Decline BP 3x8
High pulley cable fly 3x8

you do 3 sets of 5 reps of bench and then your done ? just want to make sure i'm reading that correctly . thats a total of 15 reps for bench press, and thats it .. !?

I really think you need to add some more total volume if you want to grow. "Volume" is a key component of hypertrophy.

to put it in perceptive and compare with my bench press volume (and I'm not a big bench press fan for chest, so its not a big emphasis)
10 reps
10 reps
10 reps
10 reps
8 reps
8 reps
6 reps
5 reps
4 reps
6 reps
10 reps
12 reps
16 reps
20 reps

for a total of 14 sets and 135 reps. and this is just flat bench press . I do the same for incline bench. are all of those sets to failure, no of course not . the first 4 are just working up to working sets.
but just comparing , you do 15 reps total , and I do 135 reps total , then i move on to the rest my chest routine.

pump up the volume man


edit- i should note that flat bench press in my current micro cycle only happens every 11th training day. same with incline bench press (they never fall on the same day though)

 

[RustySword]

I would make an increase all around. 1 set of every exercise and remember to switch your bench from flat to incline and mix it up with dumbbells when you hit a plateau. The same with flies from cable to dumbbell to machine. But stick with an exercise for 4-6 weeks at a time or more if you don't plateau.

I would also change the rep ranges often. For an example when I bench I start out with a weight I can do for about 10 reps and then slowly add weight until I hit a weight I can do for a triple, double and sometimes a single. Rep range would be 10,8,8,6,3 but I'm never fixed about reps. This will make you hit every rep ranges and if you went balls to the walls you should have tapped into every muscle fiber.

And even though you are natty you can easily get away with more volume our body is a wonderful thing and can adapt to almost anything if you give it time. Especially chest, back and legs need high volume.

An example of a chest workout I would do:
Bench as mentioned above (5 sets)
Weighted dips (100 pounds) or incline bench. Rep range 10-6 (4-5 sets)
Bench on a machine (hammerstrenght like) rep range 10-6 (4-5 sets)
Cable flies. Rep range 10-8 (3-4 sets)
Machine or db flies. Rep range 10-8 (3-4 sets)
I will do about 10 sets of tri's right after finishing chest to.

So here's the thing, had my back workout yesterday, absolutely feeling fantastic after all the advice given here.
My back workout had total 15 sets, increased it to 19, feeling so much better, huge pumps, and I always keep a good form.
I study exercise education and ex.physiology, a "good" form is a ritual for us, don't worry about that haha.

Tomorrow is gonna be my chest workout, and like you said, I'm gonna spice up the workout, change to free weights, reps, etc...
And ofc increase the volume, I'll start with 4 more sets as a beginning and gradually increase it according to how I feel.
'mirin your 100 pounds weighted dips, that's something I was never able to do, never really got to hang weights between my legs to dips / pullups.
Will update tomorrow how it went.

How much of a calorie surplus are you using on your bulk and how long is your bulking period? Is it possible youre ramping up your calories too high too fast and then cutting the bulk short because you're gaining too much fat?

Another suggestion, whether it applies to you or not is that I find many people who train heavy end up focusing on how much weight they are lifting and aren't properly stimulating the muscle. I would suggest dropping the weight for a month or two and like Danish said adding more volume and really focusing on taking the muscle past the burn and to complete failure and see how that works.

Other than that it probably wouldn't be a terrible idea to get your hormones checked, at the very least to see where you're at and start ruling out factors(or potentially finding them).

How much a caloric surplus? about 250-300 calories daily, that's 2lbs (1kg) a month, my bulk phases were more than 6 months long.
Some were 9-10 months while other 7 months, even then, all the 7+ kgs gained were fat (again, it's an assumption, because strength barely increased and I looked at myself in the mirror and didn't really see an increase in muscle size, looked like I packed on mainly fat).

What does it mean "train heavy end up focusong on how much weight they are lifting and aren't properly stimulating the muscle".
You can trust me when I say my form looks even better than in the books, I drop my ego before I enter the gym, focus on 100% perfect form first, and then increase weights.

I actually did get my hormones checked, my T is 10ng/dl and I'm only 23, I eat well, sleep 8 hours every night (sometimes 7) and exercise regularly.
No idea why it is 10, I consulted with my doc 2 days ago and she said I'm talking bullchit and nobody said a person at 23 should have higher T.
She also said "Testosterone has nothing to do with sports performances, I have no idea where you read that".
I got mad, left her office and went home.

Overtraining does it for me.

Thought the same thing, had a month break, came back, still same shyt.

Increase your volume. One of the bigger dudes on this forum does about 700 reps per body part. That's once a week in one workout. You're doing 91 reps per workout.

You are not this dude, so don't try this at home- and he's definitely enhanced, but even when he's not on cycle he Does the same reps and sets only with less weight.

Getting big takes work. I say up the volume to something like Danish suggested then up it from there once gains slow down again.

steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/688957-some-updates-cycle-pics-230lb.html

That's madd!!! 230 pounds of muscles.
700 reps per body part is INSANE even on a gear lmao! < correct me if I'm wrong.
So yeah, I increased the volume yesterday when I had my back workout, felt pretty good !
Chest day ahead of me, I'll update you guys how it went.

you do 3 sets of 5 reps of bench and then your done ? just want to make sure i'm reading that correctly . thats a total of 15 reps for bench press, and thats it .. !?

I really think you need to add some more total volume if you want to grow. "Volume" is a key component of hypertrophy.

to put it in perceptive and compare with my bench press volume (and I'm not a big bench press fan for chest, so its not a big emphasis)
10 reps
10 reps
10 reps
10 reps
8 reps
8 reps
6 reps
5 reps
4 reps
6 reps
10 reps
12 reps
16 reps
20 reps

for a total of 14 sets and 135 reps. and this is just flat bench press . I do the same for incline bench. are all of those sets to failure, no of course not . the first 4 are just working up to working sets.
but just comparing , you do 15 reps total , and I do 135 reps total , then i move on to the rest my chest routine.

pump up the volume man


edit- i should note that flat bench press in my current micro cycle only happens every 11th training day. same with incline bench press (they never fall on the same day though)

Haha yeah you read that correctly.
I do about 90 reps for chest, but heavy as hell when each rep feels like hell, slow with a sweet good ol' form.
But like others have said, I'm gonna increase the volume and report back.

What do I basically need to track? total volume for the workout?
Weight * rep * set ?

 

[Danishaesthetics]

I do believe volume is the key for you to grow further as i find it hard to believe that your genetic max is 75kg.

I run a conjugate style of training which is like cycles of 4-6 weeks where I keep the same compound lifts to focus on progressing.

An example of a back cycle would be:
Back 1:
Weighted pull ups
Rack pull
DB Row
Lat pulldown
Face pulls

Back 2:
Barbell row
Seated cable row
T-Bar row
Pull-ups
Chin-ups

The constant exercise variety makes me Pr at something almost every workout. And I would definitely recommend you to try it ! And if you constant pr at a exercise don't change it until you plateau. Why hold back your total strenght (size) ? And I would say you have to track your volume. Top sets, reps.

Good luck on your journey. I hope the tools and input you got from the guys is useful.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

So it's 80% diet. but you will 100% not progress if your diet isn't right.

 

[Milton]

gained any weight these days OP or are you still stuck?

 

[TatsForTats]

He told you to see an endocrinologist cause your hormones are probably fukd, have you tested your thryoid? Growth hormone? Testosterone?

 

[Teutonic]

This one s EZ.
Whatever your doing ain t working so un fuck it and switch everything YOUR DOING.
YOU USED THE WORD "DECENT" in describing diet and training. That, to me is synonomous to average..or striving for mediocrity.
Age
Height
Bodyfat BTW

Size is all about training MORE AND heavier resting and yes eating a lot.YOu CANNOT RAISE THE RED FLAG ABOUT GETTING BIGGER AND then again MORE SHREDDED in the same thread describing ur decent approach to this life. The gym the kitchen the bed dictates size cuts..drug s if you need them
Avg suck s. I m not trying to make u mad or feel foolish, really. But at 53 ( 217) when I m done training I m hypoglycemic, cramping almost.
I eat at 0430 0700 train till I m f n dizzy AND eat again at 1030 1300 1630 1900. 4k a day give or take 3-500 depending on the mirror
Are u sick after leg s ? Do you shake cooking or ordering ur next meal.?
Do you eat more than your mortgage ?
By all mean s get BW. Heck that maybe the key stone in your arches construction .
No offense
Post a pic

 

[Dickey]

Fuck me bud if your test levels are actually 10ng/dl that's most likely your problem, that's on the low end of women's natural levels. Honestly I'd get that re-checked because that seems off. And your doctor sounds like a fuckwit.

I was just curious about the calorie surplus because a lot of "hard gainers" including myself in my younger days think to gain weight we need to force as many calories as we can down our throats and end up eating thousands of calories above maintenance and then wonder why we get fat.

What I mean by using to much weight is going too heavy to the point that other stronger muscles end up becoming the prime movers and the muscle you are actually trying to target doesn't get enough stimulation to grow. The thing that's hard to judge is that form doesn't always look off even though the wrong muscles are being used, for example I can do lateral raises and mainly use my traps instead of my delts even though my form looks fine.

 

[oldmusclemike]

I tell ya for me when I was younger I didn't give a shit what I ate, it was Calories and the training. Now that I am educated at my old age I realize I could of done much better and prob gain mire size it I ate a quality diet. It was my consistent work outs and my training for mass. However I didn't have to worry about fat because of my metabolism and that I was a skinny ectomorph. I did gain water weight due to not controlling me E2 , ha what the hell was that lol.

Sure I would mix in the high reps to get that pump but I concentrated on quality movements and the connection of my mind and the muscle intended to be trained. The mind connection is so , so important, and the low reps to failure. My spotter , my full time partner was key because we knew each others capability A three day one off was my routine. We didn't miss.

Also I would have a hard time walking down the stairs and pushing my clutch. Hey close to vomiting many time with legs. Strip sets like on leg press and giant sets helped my aerobics to an extent. Giant sets like three different exercises moving fast from on to another with no rest. On arm day I wouldn't be able to touch my right shoulder with my right arm.

I found now due to some fat tissue at my mid section that I ride the stationary bike AFTER my work out Ha not on leg day lol

So that's my 2 cents and what id did , not to say that's for everyone but it worked for me.
Good luck

I would not hold back and stop a set due to a number, except for warm up. If I stopped before failure I didn't work hard enough. There is so much we can do knowing our body and feeling the muscle we are working.

 

[3J]

without having read everyones responses here, i would say your nutrition might actually be your problem.. alot of people think they are on a great diet when they are not..

do you mind sharing your bulking diet with me?