Big favor to ask the big guys

Over training will impede any growth. When you over train the stress hormon cortisol is released in your body. This hormon start to eat away at muscle. If you want to gain muscle you shouldnt be working out more than a hour a day. Also, you should only be working out each muscle group at the most twice a week. If you want to get bigger sometimes doing less will give you more. Check out this article. Overtraining - Why Less Is More | Muscle & Strength
 
Pupil2Prodigy said:
Arnold was 235 w/ gear wasn't he??

I know I can't get to 230 @ 10% w/o gear
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You have choices to make pupil. Tgis game is about gaining mass and cutting mass. You go up and add muscle and fat periid that is how it goes. Then you diet down and cut fat along with some mass because thats the nature of the beats. Natty or not it can be done.
 
Pupil2Prodigy said:
Arnold was 235 w/ gear wasn't he??

I know I can't get to 230 @ 10% w/o gear
Click to expand...

My lifting buddy back home is maybe a little taller, like 6'3", 21 years old, and weighs over 260 at probably 15%. He is clean, too. The kid eats enough food to feed a medium sized African village.

Maybe your natural potential isn't that high, but unless you start pounding back the calories, and drop the excessive cardio, you will never know!

Get big, baby!
 
infection said:
My lifting buddy back home is maybe a little taller, like 6'3", 21 years old, and weighs over 260 at probably 15% - Maybe your natural potential isn't that high
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he's natural? 260 @ 15% would be 247 @ 10% and obv. 233 @ 5%, I don't see how someone could possibly weigh as much as Arnold w/o gear and while I know my natural potential is not size but heart/lung capacity/endurance, I do know I can put on more weight if I eat/drop the cardio
 
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Proach2x a week split is working well for me (still natty for now anyway). Its on 4 day setup and really works out well for work and kids and all else life throws at u.

Mon-back, chest, bis and tris only using compound lifts for back and chest
Tues- legs,shoulders abs
Wed-off
Thurs-repeat Monday with different exercises ie DL/Pullups Monday wed do rows and pulldowns (maybe narrow this time if ur pullups were wide on Monday
Friday-legs,shoulders abs again with differnt exercise
Sat/sun off

And try only "power" for a bit (hiit under 30 mins) won't eat up so many precious calories we hard gainers have to savor!! Lol. Anyways this split has seemed to work for me for the last few months pretty well! But like these guys say ya gotsta eat big, screw counting calories, just friggin throw down on good grub every couple hours and growth will come

Good luck!!!
 
You're over thinking this shit. You may be "eating a lot" but you're actually only eating enough to maintain your current size and activity level.

But fwiw post out your daily meal and caloric breakdown.
 
just took a look around the net for 6'2 frames and at 195 @ 10% - impossible to gain 35 lbs of lean muscle that's bullshit. Even if you bulked up to cut down. Not achievable naturally. I would have to be bloated to the gills
 
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Pupil2Prodigy said:
My training has evolved many times over the years with new knowledge, the availability of food, quality gym, and my goals of course. I know for a fact I've over trained for atleast the last 4 years. I've always preferred a mon/wed/fri split with tues/thur/sat cardio and sunday rests. I'd log 2+ hours m/w/f and typically 1hr interval sprinting or 2-4 hours of basketball (practicing mostly), some lax 1v1/2v2 here and there. I can sprint with a HR in excess of 210 for long periods of time, I've got excellent endurance that isn't serving my purpose. When I spend 2+hrs lifting it's honest, hardcore, 25-45 second rests between volume and power work. I always recovered for the next workout but my next workout was the following week! I always thought I should be training each muscle group twice a week, I just didn't know how to make it happen. I'm all heart, volume or power, working my butt off and I couldn't recover fast enough to complete separate chest/back/leg group routines twice a week even when limiting my gym time to an hour. I've always enjoyed the in-gym war that is tough training but I've only improved my strength and conditioning and not so much my size. I didn't want to work out w/o being 90-100% but It doesn't take a week to recover.

I came across an old webinar of yates giving advice that confirmed my suspicion of overtraining. Link is set to the specific time**: Dorian Yates Q&A - Bodycoaches.net Webinar Part 1 - YouTube

Below is a new conservative time limiting plan. I like to include but don't always complete 4 second negatives and fascia training. I've had problems with stretching/warming up, always seems to affect me negatively. I'm natural, always have been, plan on cycling but I'm not looking to waste my money training improperly. If you're a big man, please tear this shit apart with opinions, thank you!!
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"Your body's like a piece of dynamite, you can tap it with a pencil all day, but you'll never make it explode. You hit it once with a hammer, bang! Get serious, do 40 hard minutes, not an hour and a half of nonsense" -- Jason Statham
 
Pupil2Prodigy said:
195 @ 10% - impossible to gain 35 lbs of lean muscle that's bullshit
Click to expand...

You literally need to force food down, I do it for my breakfast, I'm never hungry in the morning/late at night (especially after my PW shake), so I fill my plate, grab a couple glasses of smoothie, and start piling the food in, chew, then swallow it with some smoothie, rinse, and repeat.

I'm not even two weeks into a 18 week bulking cycle, and I've already hit my personal max of 190lbs, I've never broken this, but if your force the food down you defintely will.
 
Feel like I'm coming across as an ass right now but it is just impossible. If Olympians can cycle up and clear gear from there system in time for competition surely pro "natty" guys can and do too.

This makes more sense, been using this site on and off for awhile:
http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

I could see 220 but 235 is ridiculous for a natural guy the same height as Arnold lol
 
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Pupil2Prodigy said:
just took a look around the net for 6'2 frames and at 195 @ 10% - impossible to gain 35 lbs of lean muscle that's bullshit. Even if you bulked up to cut down. Not achievable naturally. I would have to be bloated to the gills
Click to expand...

Sounds like what used to be said about the sub four minute mile. I watched a buddy get blown from a humvee, break his neck, nearly loose his arm, and then (after lots of physical therapy) make it to to 235 @ 6'1" w/o gear.
 
the greatest credible natural bodybuilders weighed under 235, it's not a common phenomenon, the genetic lottery is just that, few and very far inbetween
 
The only plausible explanation I could possibly agree with is perhaps that the gear pumps made Arnold look much bigger than natural 235
 
if you read the original post you would have known I am preparing to use and I don't want to start a cycle training improperly, i.e. too much cardio, not enough cals, and overtraining
 
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