BOARDS OPINION: my source said dont switch (Nolvadex to A-dex)

[rpwhit777]

Well I was totally pscyched to start some A_dex but my bro told me to stick with the nolvadex. His statement was that your body needs some estrogen to grow and A-dex may block to much and hinder some growth. I trust him on this I suppose being as though it is an item he carries and it's more expensive than nolvadex. I'd be interested to hear the boards opinion. Thanks

 

[Nzom]

Depending what you are using them for.

I would say L-dex(I prefer the Letro type) durring cycle.

If gyno sysmptoms durring cycle. Quit L-dex and start Nolva. Continue Nolva throughout the end of your cycle.

Clomid for PCT.

 

[radical_P]

I prefer .25mg of arimidex ed. Works great with bloat and makes me looked more vascular. Novaldex did nothing for me except remove a little water. Adex=no bloat to me....

 

[eastarr69]

I prefer .25mg of arimidex ed. Works great with bloat and makes me looked more vascular. Novaldex did nothing for me except remove a little water. Adex=no bloat to me....

Nolva is a gyno blocker only to my knowledge...nothing for bloat etc...anyone think of throwing in proviron...

why does no one like using proviron...is it the forgotten tab?

E

 

[TxLonghorn]

why does no one like using proviron...is it the forgotten tab?

E

I don't think it's the forgotten tab, just that I don't think it's any kind of defense against estrogen. Possibly if you are getting gyno because of a too low test-estrogen ratio, maybe then, but it ain't gonna stop gyno if you are on cycle.

As for switching, it really won't matter. And liquidex isn't so strong that you wouldn't have estrogen. Anastrozole (liquidex) is fairly mild. Also, anastrozole is different from letrozole (femara). Letro is pretty strong.

 

[eastarr69]

I don't think it's the forgotten tab, just that I don't think it's any kind of defense against estrogen. Possibly if you are getting gyno because of a too low test-estrogen ratio, maybe then, but it ain't gonna stop gyno if you are on cycle.

As for switching, it really won't matter. And liquidex isn't so strong that you wouldn't have estrogen. Anastrozole (liquidex) is fairly mild. Also, anastrozole is different from letrozole (femara). Letro is pretty strong.

I am not running proviron this cycle, and i can definately see the difference...as for estrogen blocker...i have read that is is a blocker and will help drop water retention as well....see below......


"Proviron is a synthetic androgenic steroid and oral antiestrogen used by bodybuilders. A lot of bodybuilders take this substance for two main reasons. They use it to restore sexual disfunctions caused by steroid cycling. It will help get rid of the lack of sexual desire that most bodybuilders experience during a long steroid cycle. It also will help with the decreased sperm count and quality that steroids exhibit on the body. It does not however increase testosterone production in the body. It is also used as an anti-estrogen as well. Proviron provides a dual blocking scheme in that it prevents the aromitization of steroids as well as competes with estrogen to block the receptors as well. The bad thing about Proviron is that it does not help in maintaining strength and muscle gains after a steroid cycle whereas HCG, Clomid, and Teslac do. This reason alone keeps some people from using this drug. It does however block gyno and the increased water retention that steroids give the user. It does allow increased muscle hardness since the estrogen levels will be low which is of great benefit for a precontest bodybuilder.
It is a popular precontest drug to increase muscle hardness. When taken along with Nolvadex, it almost completely blocks the effects of estrogen."


E

 

[rpwhit777]

easttar69 that was interesting whaere did you find that article?

 

[eastarr69]

got it from my book at home...steroids 101 i think...i photocopy crap here all day....make a nice little booklet to review...

E

 

[StoneColdNTO]

There's a good article in the Articles Forum on Proviron

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10

 

[Mudge]

If you were to totally try and remove all estrogen, well it is needed for things like proper bone growth (density) and so on. So unfortunately the "game" is not so easy as test good, est bad, some kind of balance is needed.

Billy Bathgate has said (feel freey to verify/ask for his monster anti-E report that we all await) that he runs nolva all the way through now and notices no difference in gains, but I would not say he is doing big doses either.

 

[TxLonghorn]

"Proviron is a synthetic androgenic steroid and oral antiestrogen used by bodybuilders.

It is also used as an anti-estrogen as well.

Proviron provides a dual blocking scheme in that it prevents the aromitization of steroids as well as competes with estrogen to block the receptors as well.

When taken along with Nolvadex, it almost completely blocks the effects of estrogen."


E

I'm not buying this at all. It does not compete with estrogen at the receptor level, nor is it an anti-e. Proviron is basically synthetic dht, it is almost a pure androgen.

And the last sentence you could replace proviron with just about anything...Custard filled donuts, when taken along with Nolvadex, almost completely blocks the effects of estrogen.

This is just like the 'winny blocks progesterone' thing that keeps popping up. It just ain't true.

 

[Feli Fly]

...Custard filled donuts, when taken along with Nolvadex, almost completely blocks the effects of estrogen...

...LOL...

I agree. I researched proviron and considered using it for its effects on SHBG while on cycle, but it's effects as an anti-e are slim to none... the general consensus seems that it's anti-e effects are highly over-stated... and it's expensive... and if fawks up hairline... I decided on "no thanks."

 

[ironmaster]

I never did hear your reason for asking this. Why take either unless you are proven gyno prone? Water retention is not a great reason to use additional drugs. Most experienced bodybuilders know how to manipulate fluid retention without drugs.
Have you had gyno? Then by all means, use some L'dex for a little prevention and Nolvadex if symptoms appear. If not, it's good to have some on hand to use only if necessary. None of this stuff was available when I started steroids, so we all found out in a hurry if we had problems with estrogen or not. I don't think the percentage of guys with problems was any higher back then. I regularly use 2 grams a week without any blockers or antagonists. But I do have both around at all times just in case. Same reason I have color TV and indoor plumbing.......might as well take advantage of technology.

 

[rpwhit777]

ironmaster I assume you were asking me my reason????Yeh, fortuneately for me fluid retention has never been aproblem even at high doses. Symptoms of gyno on the other hand have bothered me with every T - cycle. I usually wait until symptoms arrive ( usually around week 6 or 7) then my Nolvadex regime has always begun. I was just curious about running a different anti-e, to see if the potential for gains were increased with the use of A-dex,or others. I also wanted to see the benefits of A-dex vs. Nolvi as far as fatigue go. I personally feel that nolvadex takes a bit of steam from me. I am not sure if there is scientific evidence to back this up or if it is a common side effect but I know my body...I get tired and slightly less strong.

 

[SMACKAVELI]

I agree 100 % with NZOM. A-dex can be run throughout the cycle .25 a day to combat water retention and prevent gyno.
N-dex is best used when the first gyno symptons appear, not really throughout a cycle like A-dex.

 

[DTOX]

I guess I'm in the minority here... I don't particularly like arimidex either because I've found it to be *too* powerful. The shit is the nuclear bomb of anti-estrogens.

 

[eastarr69]

I'm not buying this at all. It does not compete with estrogen at the receptor level, nor is it an anti-e. Proviron is basically synthetic dht, it is almost a pure androgen.

And the last sentence you could replace proviron with just about anything...Custard filled donuts, when taken along with Nolvadex, almost completely blocks the effects of estrogen.

This is just like the 'winny blocks progesterone' thing that keeps popping up. It just ain't true.

I was quoting my steroids 101 book...also you can check it out at www.steroids.com it is in there also..some extra info also...

I ran proviron only on my prior cycle as stated earlier i think. dbol and omna...i ran the dbol for 6 weeks at 30mg and the test at 750 and 500...my muscles were hard, and my bloat was not half what it seems to be without it this cycle, also the same hardness is not there...and i may not be prone to gyno, but i had no issues prior cycle...this cycle is the same, but i had bad itchy nips and a tad of puff, that i could see..hit the nolva and it was gone....but, for me, if i did not have it running proviron at 25 mg daily for 10 weeks, and no proviron this cycle and had an issue...IMO it works as i read it...IMO

E