Can I replace nonstop prescribed testosterone with cycles with augments?

[WasHousebound]

I have ‘orthostatic hypotension’ and other strange symptoms that are alleviated by injecting testosterone. After five years injecting nonstop, I tapered off and have been off for a couple months. I’ll go back on if I need a cane to walk, or in a few months. Doctors don’t know what’s wrong with me, so looks like I’ll take steroids for the rest of my life.

My body responds well to steroids, except I suffer from staying on nonstop, and now I manifest genetic hemachromatosis. I’ve played with cycling testosterone and it seems the right thing to do the rest of my life. I’m prescribed 160mg/wk, so that’s the most I can average over the year and should minimize my dose. I need to give my body a break once in a while, especially timing steroid use based on my other symptoms and what’s happening in my life. When I’m on an upturn, I can start a cycle and work out and my body responds well - unless I crash. I have no stamina even when I’m well and I also can’t build any mass; but that leaves HIIRT and getting ripped. Off steroids, I’m barely able to get out of bed.

(I generalized the above two paragraphs so they apply to others who may not realize that working out is an option)

Can the forum please suggest a protocol and schedule of cycles?
I take T cypionate, but I’d like to add all legal augments and maybe a few others that I’ve read about.
As far as I know, I’d split the year into 3-4 cycles. How long can I be on and off, to avoid complications? I think it is a mistake for me to have been on for five years straight. My production recovered quickly, and I only used anastrazole post cycle. Doctors refused to give me anything at all. I’ve had it with following their fumbled plan. I’d like to maximize my (luckily type-2A fast twitch dominant) muscle and tendon health without building any weight, then not lose it between cycles. It is really easy for me to overdo it and end up in a crash, or start injecting and not be able to work out and end up in a crash, and just about anything can lead to a crash. That's okay, because my unmedicated state is like the middle of a crash. I feel like being well. I can't be well following the consistent prescription. I need cycles.

For context:
Doctors screwed me up several times in the last five years, and I found out the solution to several problems right here on this forum (split injections to two a week, had a compounding pharmacy make microdose anastrazole and got a doctor to give me a prescription). My prescriptions reflect what I learned here. Had I shut my mouth and followed my doctors, my clinical condition would be far worse.

 

[casanovaaa]

so you where on trt for 5 years and want to get off and replace with cycles? you want to do 3 to 4 cycles per year? you might as well cruise all year long like you did on trt. How do you feel? can you get a hard on and keep it up?
before anything can you post your last blood labs taken? LH, FSH, E2, Free test, Total test?
and also post your stats, height, weight, age, bf%.
are you taking any meds? antidepressants? hows your blood sugar glucose levels? any thyroid issues?

 

[WasHousebound]

My relevant history is already on this forum in five years of posting. No other medications are relevant to this forum. I don't take antidepressants. I went off cycle and have been off cycle for a couple months at this point. I'm going to go back on, but intend to do cycles because "just cruizing" ain't cutting it. I crash anyway and my blood is too thick. I'd be better off taking steroids maybe half the time.
Stats: 6.1, 185lbs, mesomorph, around 50. This is my ideal weight, but I'm entirely out of condition. Energy crashed many months ago so I decided I'd go ahead and take a break from testosterone while trying to go through diagnostics. My health varies, and I can anticipate an upswing maybe within a month, and previous experience tells me that if I time steroids and diet according to such an upswing, I can get into a recovery mode. As that condition only lasts a while, I should plan my testosterone cycle around my natural patterns to maximize my clinical condition.
Because my doctors have been absolute fools and didn't even help me post-cycle, I'm going to (with help) figure out an annual pattern that I can follow, including augments to help me go on and off. I believe that will be far more effective than just injecting 160mg/wk forever.

Yeah, everything still functions even post-cycle. Everything was tested when on cycle, results as expected. No tests since off cycle, but I know my FSH and LH have recovered, know my E is balanced (20-80, anyway), and my T has recovered to fairly normal. I can tell these from my clinical condition because of the hundred times I had complete hormone panels done. Injected testosterone does something(!?) to keep me from blacking out when I stand up and substantially improves my clinical condition; it isn't because I have low testosterone. I'm glad we stumbled across this, or I'd still be walking with a cane and wouldhave nursing care by now. I am not exaggerating. I'll be dead within ten years, so might as well take steroids accordingly since I respond well to them.

Thyroid - I have Hashimoto's and my thyroid is completely turned off with high dose pig thyroid. I'm clinically hypothyroid with high thyroid levels. Blood glucose works perfectly at least.

How do I feel? I'm off cycle temporarily. As my handle states, I am housebound.

 

[jp4355]

Sorry to hear about your condition.

I have a question about your Orthostatic Hypotention.
Have you ever tried Compression Stockings or Calf Compression Sleeves to help with Circulation ?

I have an Issue called Venus Insufficiency, which causes Blood to Pool in my Legs, and also causes Edema (swelling).
I wear Calf Compression Sleeves, and they've really Improved my condition dramatically.......................... JP

 

[WasHousebound]

We have different conditions. I've never had swelling, and even tight socks hurt. Those would be counterproductive for me.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Donate blood to lower your hematicrite and get yout trt dosing and times right so your blood levels are consistent. Cycles is not what you need. It's very clear you need trt.

 

[WasHousebound]

I get therapeutic phlebotomy (blood draining) of 500ml per session, twice what someone donates. This is up to every two weeks, currently every six weeks, based on results of CBC tests. My Hematologist (blood doctor) told me to go ahead and inject 200mg/wk testosterone and he'll monitor my blood, after my endocrinologist lowered me to 160mg/wk due to blood problems. We balance my passing out from low blood pressure with passing out with thick blood. Sh*t, it looks worse in writing.

Been on TRT since 2013, I guess. My dose changed over time, and I went through many rollercoasters. I learned right here to split my T cyp into two shots per week to avoid gynomastia, after learning to microdose anastrazole. It is true that I'll be on TRT for the rest of my life, it is for bizarre reasons! They don't know what is wrong with me. I suppose the healthiest thing for me to do would be to figure out a cycle that I can do, and stay off cycle until I need it. Go on cycle, and then when I'm feeling burned out, unhealthy for some other reason, my blood gets too thick, or I have a schedule conflict; then I go off cycle. I stay off until I need... etc.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

You have something going on that the doctors can't figure out. Stick to your trt till you have the problem figured out. Im not sure why you think a cycle has more to offer you that trt does. More isn't better it's on or off.

 

[oldmusclemike]

You have something going on that the doctors can't figure out. Stick to your trt till you have the problem figured out. Im not sure why you think a cycle has more to offer you that trt does. More isn't better it's on or off.

Good advice, keeping it simple. Get well and then re-approach.

Good Luck.

 

[casanovaaa]

Good advice, keeping it simple. Get well and then re-approach.

Good Luck.

Great advice in deed, less may be more in the case.

 

[WasHousebound]

Good advice, keeping it simple. Get well and then re-approach.

Good Luck.

It's not going to happen. I will not get healthy. TRT is not for people who are healthy. I've been 'housebound' most of the time for the last 15 years, with my only reprieve being from taking steroids. Doctors that a Medicare patient is allowed to see do not know nor care anything about optimal hormone health. They nearly killed me a few times, and you want me to listen to them? Besides, they have nothing more to say. I'm to inject 160mg/wk testosterone cypionate for the rest of my life. My clinical condition under their care is to lay in bed and request nursing care! I kid you not. They do not give one shit about optimizing my health.

Through trial and error, and doctor f*ck ups and my recognizing the pattern after; I am certain that my nonstop use causes a crash eventually, but when I raise and lower dose based on symptoms I do better. I conclude that I do better if I'm not "on" 100% of the time. Put another way, attempting to find a constant dose has failed to keep me healthy. I crash anyway. I live in cycles of several months in any case. It only makes sense to cycle my steroids accordingly.

At the moment, I can barely get out of bed. A few months ago while still on cycle, and when I go back on again, I can hike and swim quite well. I can get pretty ripped. I need to optimize that pattern. Doctors do not help. I could spend $2K per month for the type of hormone doctor that will figure this out, but they sure don't take Medicare.

 

[casanovaaa]

It's not going to happen. I will not get healthy. TRT is not for people who are healthy. I've been 'housebound' most of the time for the last 15 years, with my only reprieve being from taking steroids. Doctors that a Medicare patient is allowed to see do not know nor care anything about optimal hormone health. They nearly killed me a few times, and you want me to listen to them? Besides, they have nothing more to say. I'm to inject 160mg/wk testosterone cypionate for the rest of my life. My clinical condition under their care is to lay in bed and request nursing care! I kid you not. They do not give one shit about optimizing my health.

Through trial and error, and doctor f*ck ups and my recognizing the pattern after; I am certain that my nonstop use causes a crash eventually, but when I raise and lower dose based on symptoms I do better. I conclude that I do better if I'm not "on" 100% of the time. Put another way, attempting to find a constant dose has failed to keep me healthy. I crash anyway. I live in cycles of several months in any case. It only makes sense to cycle my steroids accordingly.

At the moment, I can barely get out of bed. A few months ago while still on cycle, and when I go back on again, I can hike and swim quite well. I can get pretty ripped. I need to optimize that pattern. Doctors do not help. I could spend $2K per month for the type of hormone doctor that will figure this out, but they sure don't take Medicare.

hey bro I feel you man, there are tons of men out there who are on TRT and doing just fine, there is no reason you have to lay in our death bed at your age and let this sadistic doc lead you all the way to your grave, after he bleeds your dry of any assets.
Try contacting IMT here on the site and see what they have to say. They have led many to a happy life full of hope and future.

 

[WasHousebound]

This isn't going the direction I was hoping. I am inherently extremely powerful. Though I've spent most of the last month in bed, I just dropped and did eight pushups. Eight throwing my entire body in the air and clapping push ups! That's right, when completely sedentary, I can do what most humans cannot. I'm not bragging! Yet after only eight of those pushups, I'm worn out. Here's what's crazy: I'd be worn out in the same amount of time doing much less strenuous activity. This is off steroids for (2?) months when I'm getting less steady on my feet. On steroids, I can get ripped quite readily. My thick blood prevents me from doing cardio whatsoever, and needing a break every couple minutes, which works perfectly for HIIRT. (3 sets of 30 reps max weight I can do in about 45 seconds, with recovery to 120bpm within 2-3 minutes, start with 3 exercises and move up to about 6, maintaining 120+bpm for 30 minutes) I know how to exercise, and on steroids I can exercise five days a week for about a month or two until I hit a crash. I intend to schedule going off in a couple-few months rather than going until I crash each time. Exercising without steroids crashes me. Going on steroids and not being able to exercise can crash me. Going on steroids and exercising and keeping everything balanced can initiate a six month reprieve without having to continue to exercise. If I can do such a pattern (CYCLE!) as often as needed, I can stay reasonably healthy AND INDEPENDENT for as long as possible.

 

[casanovaaa]

Going on steroids and not being able to exercise can crash me. Going on steroids and exercising and keeping everything balanced can initiate a six month reprieve without having to continue to exercise. If I can do such a pattern (CYCLE!) as often as needed, I can stay reasonably healthy AND INDEPENDENT for as long as possible.

damn bro, your damn if you do and damned if you dont. id go with the steroids and exercise and be sure to keep your diet spot on.

 

[PapaNoel]

I understand your concerns but this topic has been covered several times.
If you need TRT to stay healthy, there's no benefit to have "off" periods.

Also sounds like you need a private lab to check ALL values, from vitamins, minerals, bloods, estrogen, testo, you name it. Can it be tested? Test it. Super important.

Most legal options are useless i'm afraid.
But right know you are treating the symptoms and not the actual cause.
Find out the cause and you'll be on your way to ha happy life.

Also if you cant get up out of bed or workout, something is very wrong and we're talking EMC and risk of fatal problems bro.... Please dont try massive amounts of redbull, adderall, coke, or similar. It will likely kill you.

Wish you all the best bro

 

[IMT staff]

Why not just go on doctor prescribed TRT then?

You cannot do cycle dosages forever, you will have problems.

 

[WasHousebound]

I've been pushing my doctors to find the cause, they haven't and they won't put forward the effort. As my doctors will tell you my care suffers from being fragmented. In fact, I need to switch medical systems. They referred me to Mayo Clinic, but the logistics of going for a month are near impossible. Did I say one month? My symptoms may take several months to figure out. I considered moving close to one of the Mayo Clinics. At this time, I have no solution. Believe me, if the cause could be addressed, I'd do so. All my drugs are now just treating the symptoms. I have a list of conditions as long as my arm, but that's just what happens when they don't know the underlying cause. I had hoped they'd get somewhere with diagnostics, but they are not going to.

This has been interesting. I***8217;m talking about taking less steroids and being advised to stay on it constantly. If I stay off steroids any longer they're going to leave me off of them and stuck in bed! I have to go back on... today, as in right after I send this.

My vitals are dead-man level which is one of the symptoms that steroids eliminates. At yesterday***8217;s appointment I was at 106/67, pulse 62, temp 97.0. I barely leave my bedroom. I went off for diagnostics but yesterday's appointment was pointless and won't lead anywhere, and there***8217;s no plan. I***8217;m suffering for nothing.

I***8217;m going back on right away, but would very much like to optimize my steroid use. My Medicare doctors don***8217;t know (insert expletive here) about steroids, and I***8217;ll never get to see one that does. Therefore, don***8217;t tell me to ask my doctors. For that matter, if I were to fork out cash to see a doctor, is there a way I can get my steroids optimized and then left to a prescription that a Medicare doctor can continue? My reason for cycling is to reflect what is going to happen in my body anyway. I think I should taper off steroids when I feel a certain kind of crash, and go back on when I feel certain other symptoms. I think this is both healthier and allows less steroid use over the long term.

I think that if I intentionally cycle with the build-up as if I***8217;m preparing for an event, and then cycle off like the event is over, I should be able to maintain muscle health long term. How would I go about it?
Is there a type of doctor that will help me get it right and then hand me back to the system? Cash docs (some?) want to make you dependent on them for life.

 

[WasHousebound]

Seems like since my question hasn't really changed, to keep it on the same old thread. I see I haven't updated in a year and a half. I've been in bed almost that whole time, struggle to get normal stuff done, and my SADIST doctor just checked my levels twice thinking maybe I should lower dose. I'll not have to (nor get to!) see him in a long time, and I may replace my Primary Care who is doing my endocrinology - so a jump in size won't be noticed. I've been diligently doing T Cyp at 160mg/wk (split into two doses) as prescribed. After being tested, just started raising dose to 200mg/wk a physical workout routine as I've done before (just moving dirt, but good enough) and the workout opportunity dropped and I crashed. Then I got tested again, but of course gave them a normal level. This account isn't tied to any other right? I haven't had a proper erection in months; things work but I sure don't wake with morning wood. I made them test my estradiol and it was only 20. Since I have no girlfriend, they don't consider my sexualilty relevant. I must find a girlfriend in order for them to improve my hormone levels? So I'm probably not getting care and probably not getting tested for a long time either. So I'm on my own. My Sadist not only wants me in normal, he wants my total T at MID normal. Great, so I can barely walk to what end?

I have another workout routine available to me, moving to another property to restore a garden and there's a lot of opportunity to swim nearby, and I was even prescribed uppers to try to get me out of bed. To hell with what they have been doing with me, and nevermind risk. This last 18 months sure hasn't been living. I'll monitor my vitals. With ketosis, I dropped to near ideal lean weight. I'm back on a normal healthy diet.

So here's what I'd like to do:

Start a full steroid cycle, using all the augments and growth hormones that I haven't tried before
Testosterone Cypionate will be my primary steroid, as I have a lot on hand by not wasting any.
I could use the Ritalin or discontinue it, depending completely on what will get me out of bed and able to be active.
When the cycle is over, I'll drop back to 160mg as prescribed, or maybe less while "off cycle."
If this returns my vitality then I'll just do the one cycle, and maybe repeat it if things ever get this bad again. Or, maybe do one cycle at the beginning of each summer.

[Added Paragraph] Oh yeah, major brain fart not to mention this. As should already be in this thread, I have hemachromatosis, so they dump 500ml of my blood every three weeks lately but every two weeks is on the prescription. That's 1/10th of my blood volume. Going on cycle will require the more frequent blood draining and if my numbers go up too much could raise red flags. I get CBC tested every three weeks, and my blood doc said he'd handle the increase due to steroids (he wasn't condoning cheating, but my higher than usual prescription). I can't go all out on anything that builds red blood cells. For those that don't know, steroids cause hemachromatosis but I already have it and am being treated for it even if I don't adjust my steroids. This might amount to 2-3 more visits than otherwise, in turn for returning my body to a condition I can even take care of myself, and also thrive and live a little bit. I prefer to build well defined muscles rather than bulk up, which I think changes the drug selection a bit.

How much testosterone and what augments at what rate should I use for cycle and post cycle, when my goal is to rebuild after being sedentary, and not add much weight if any?
Any suggestions on either the keto diet or how to know I'm getting enough calories to build instead of self destruct?
I'm blessed with primarily Type 2A fast twitch, but this time my legs lost all muscle. Digging in the dirt and chopping weeds won't build my legs and I can't go straight to distance walking; any suggestions how to get past that hurdle?

Thanks as always.

 

[WasHousebound]

Crickets? Hey I know new doctors look at that and say, "Hell No! I'm not taking this patient." Any advice would be taken as tentative.

Did I say I have hemachromatosis? That's not the whole story. I have one gene for Hereditary Hemachromatosis; which is where someone can't shed iron and gets iron overload with thick blood. I do not have it clinically.
Clinically, I have erythrocytosis, and even though I take iron pills daily, my iron level is nearly zero. I can't hold on to iron. So I have too many red blood cells, and they get squished into other shapes than a 'concave disk' and don't hold oxygen. So when I do anything, all my tissues run out of oxygen. However, the oxygen lasts long enough for a fast set of 30 of anything, so I've used HIIRT techniques for several years. But now that I'm so extremely weak, I can't get started.

What I do not understand is which augments would help me in a cycle, in order to recover from over a year of barely being able to get out of bed. If I try a cycle but not get the exercise I need, I crash. When/if I can get my body back, then I'll taper off cycle and stay on stable TRT.

Anybody?

 

[Nicky_eye_lids]

Crickets? Hey I know new doctors look at that and say, "Hell No! I'm not taking this patient." Any advice would be taken as tentative.

Did I say I have hemachromatosis? That's not the whole story. I have one gene for Hereditary Hemachromatosis; which is where someone can't shed iron and gets iron overload with thick blood. I do not have it clinically.
Clinically, I have erythrocytosis, and even though I take iron pills daily, my iron level is nearly zero. I can't hold on to iron. So I have too many red blood cells, and they get squished into other shapes than a 'concave disk' and don't hold oxygen. So when I do anything, all my tissues run out of oxygen. However, the oxygen lasts long enough for a fast set of 30 of anything, so I've used HIIRT techniques for several years. But now that I'm so extremely weak, I can't get started.

What I do not understand is which augments would help me in a cycle, in order to recover from over a year of barely being able to get out of bed. If I try a cycle but not get the exercise I need, I crash. When/if I can get my body back, then I'll taper off cycle and stay on stable TRT.

Anybody?

Wow, sorry to hear this. You certainly need good advice from a pro around here. IMT will surely be able to assist you with info. Ive never heard of this disorder but I hope that you can augment your low iron levels with more foods strong in iron for now.