clen&T3 at the same time??????

[Mr.Mom]

Basically, it is extremely important to eat cleanly and keep up with cardio for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks following a T3 cycle. It's also very important to ramp down properly and not use any drug that have an effect on metabolism and thyroid function, i.e. Clen, Ephedrine, Steroids, DNP, T2…

The cycle can actually be used to add muscle mass or drop body fat depending on caloric intake. For gaining muscle mass, the Yohimbine and Anastrozole are not necessary.

W1-W4:

T3: 12.5mg ED
Clen: 60-100mcg ED
Ketotifen: 2mg ED
Anastrozole: 0.5mg ED
Yohimbine: 10-15mg ED (maybe too much to handle in some)

I know the 2wk. on 2wk. off w/clen but I'm going on my 2wk's off going to take T3 on the off this post say's not to take T3 w/clen then it says to combine them please share your opinion or personal experiences thanks for your time

 

[lifterjaydawg]

I have used clen before and it worked great. My diet was clean and I lost weight. Clen is very strong never needed to use T3.

 

[Trevdog]

Clen + T3 is a powerful stack. Its ok to use them together. It is neither necessary nor productive to ramp down T3, especially from 12.5 mcgs., that's an old but persistent myth. 12.5 mcgs. is basically an irrelevant dose anyway.

 

[Mr.Mom]

this is the rest of the posttelling you Y the low dose I was told that T3 should not be ran with out an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) in place for you will loose as much lean mass as fat any way here is the rest of the post Fat-loss: The main use for T3.

Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles are full and rock hard, and energy is through the roof. At these light doses, it's common for people to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there bodies are making more efficient use of the food they eat.

 

[Trevdog]

this is the rest of the posttelling you Y the low dose I was told that T3 should not be ran with out an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) in place for you will loose as much lean mass as fat any way here is the rest of the post Fat-loss: The main use for T3.

Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles are full and rock hard, and energy is through the roof. At these light doses, it's common for people to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there bodies are making more efficient use of the food they eat.

I strongly agree that T3 should not be run without Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) in place because of the catabolic effect it can have on lean muscle tissue.

I have also read about the alleged "increased nutrient uptake" of T3 and I have used it exensively trying to get this effect. In my experience, I cannot gain as much LBM using any dose of T3 as I can without using it.

I don't know whether or not it is accurate to claim that "doses between 6.25 - 12.5 mcg. do not shut down endogenous thyroid output". However, the "shutdown" factor simply isn't relevant - its a non factor in my opinion. At least one study has shown that people using much larger doses of T3 for years at a time regained their natural thyroid output in less than 2 weeks.

So, my advice to you is that if you want to use T3, use between 50-100 mcg. per day and run it with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (preferably testosterone). If you don't want to do that, don't use T3 at all.

Having said all that, if you do go with the original plan, I'd be interested in hearing how it works out.

 

[Trevdog]

I'm trying to locate the study I mentioned above. Here's some information from another one, that Nandi (RIP) posted:


Subjects were put on a month long T3 cycle: 50 mcg/day week 1; 75/day week 2; then 100/day weeks 3 & 4, then stopped abruptly. Six days after withdrawal TSH was back in the normal range; 8 days after withdrawal it had returned to baseline and then spiked above baseline until dropping back to baseline by day 42. The point being TSH recovery is very fast.

As for thyroid hormone levels, after going cold turkey T3 dropped to only 22% below baseline and had returned to normal within 2 weeks. The 22% drop in T3 compared to a 60% drop in T4 represents the "thermostat" upregulating conversion of T4 to T3 in a state of thyroid suppression.

Your thyroid will come back quickly after only a minor suppression of T3 (22%) during a relatively heavy cycle (100 mcg/day). I would not even worry about trying to speed recovery.


(1) J Clin Invest. 1984 Feb;73(2):570-5.

Peripheral tissue mechanism for maintenance of serum triiodothyronine values in a thyroxine-deficient state in man.

Lum SM, Nicoloff JT, Spencer CA, Kaptein EM.

 

[Trevdog]

I found something else Nandi posted that supports the "increase nutrient uptake" theory - however note that this worked only when T3 was combined with testosterone:

Here's one I have cited on several occasions:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/84/1/207

They gave one group of subjects 50 mcg/day of T3 plus placebo (P), or 50 mcg/day of T3 plus 200 mg/week of testosterone enanthate (T). As you can see, the T group gained LBM despite the T3, whereas the T3 group lost muscle mass:

"After 28 days of bed rest, the men in the P group lost an average of 3.9 kg of body weight (i.e. from 82.0 ± 7.1 to 78.1 ± 7.1 kg). Body weight in the T-treated subjects declined by only 1.0 kg (78.9 ± 4.9 to 77.9 ± 4.9 kg). This treatment x time interaction was statistically significant (P = 0.002). Lean body mass declined by 1.5 kg in the P group, whereas the T-treated subjects experienced nearly a 2-kg increase in lean mass (i.e. 1.7 ± 0.9 kg); again, the treatment x time interaction was statistically significant (P = 0.04)."

 

[PARKER27]

12.5 mcg.... that's palumbo advice. That dose will yield (0) results. I feel T3 has to be ran at doses over 75mcg to notice anything. Running T3 alone is silly in my book.... there's study after study proving the catabolic effect that T3 has on LBM.

 

[Mr.Mom]

cool thanks for your time your advice was very helpful putting it back on the self till Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is in place

 

[I_feel_nothing]

Hey trevdog, do you feel its important to ramp UP the dose? Or just try out 50 and if you feel alright jump to 100 the next day? Im pretty sure most everything I've read says to ramp up at least (not sure about down). I've never used t3 before but plan on giving it a try soon.

Also not to jack the thread but while I have your attention... Are there any sides I need to be concerned about? Excess heat, sweating, anything? I havent really seen much about sides, other than it shutting down natural thyroid production. I realize this isnt like a clen or eca, but I was just wondering...

 

[Trevdog]

Personally, if I decided to use T3 and was going to use 100 mcgs., I would just start with that much on day 1. However, I've used it several times before and I know how it affects me. For me, its pretty mild. I don't get much hotter or sweatier than I normally am (I'm already that way without T3).

For a person who hasn't used it before, I think it makes sense to "test the waters" before diving in - without wasting too much time doing so. In your case, I would suggest you start at 50 mcgs., run that for 2 days, assuming you feel ok, add 25 mcgs. for 2 more days, etc. I haven't used more than 100 mcgs. for a long time and I don't really see a reason for anybody to go above 150 mcgs.

Although some people feel hot, may sweat more, and may experience an elevated heart rate, the only real side effect I experience is shitting 4-5 times per day.

 

[bigpapabuff]

I have used clen and its worked great for me. Never had a need to add T3 but I hear that its strong and really effective.

 

[I_feel_nothing]

Personally, if I decided to use T3 and was going to use 100 mcgs., I would just start with that much on day 1. However, I've used it several times before and I know how it affects me. For me, its pretty mild. I don't get much hotter or sweatier than I normally am (I'm already that way without T3).

For a person who hasn't used it before, I think it makes sense to "test the waters" before diving in - without wasting too much time doing so. In your case, I would suggest you start at 50 mcgs., run that for 2 days, assuming you feel ok, add 25 mcgs. for 2 more days, etc. I haven't used more than 100 mcgs. for a long time and I don't really see a reason for anybody to go above 150 mcgs.

Although some people feel hot, may sweat more, and may experience an elevated heart rate, the only real side effect I experience is shitting 4-5 times per day.

Hmm... with the shitting... lol is it like a laxative? I mean is this gonna have me running to the restroom, or does it jsut give you the urge more often?

 

[Trevdog]

Hmm... with the shitting... lol is it like a laxative? I mean is this gonna have me running to the restroom, or does it jsut give you the urge more often?

No, it isn't like a laxative or stool softener. You won't be running to the bathroom. It just speeds up your metabolism a lot, which means that you digest your food much more quickly. No real big deal except that you spend more time pooping and your ring may get sore from so much wiping.

 

[trojanhorse]

I have used clen from lion alone and clen with T3. It is always a great idea to run T3 when on anabolics. If you use T3 without clen or Anabolics you risk muscle loss. Clen as an anticatabolic effect counters the catabolic of T3 so they do make a great pair for a Stacked Cycle. If it is your first time using clen i would try it without T3 and run 20 mcgs starting out which is 1 pump from research-ology.com 's clen and then upping the dose until you hit your threshold and i wouldn't recomend going any higher that 120-140 mcgs although many do.

 

[Trevdog]

Clenbuterol's anticatabolic effect is way overrated, I would never recommend using clenbuterol to protect against muscle loss from T3.