Coming off AI after blast?

[BigStu81]

Hey Guys,

This is just a hypothetical question.

I've been on Tostran for four months now. Feel much better but not using an AI as not had any gyno symptoms and it seems my doc would rather not prescribe it unnecessarily.

At some point in the future I'm considering upping my dose moderately for a short blast. I'm convinced that I'll fare ok with this as my test was previously at 80nmol (2300ng/dl) for a couple of months due to me seemingly absorbing a lot more of the gel than usual. My lifts were rocketing and I felt great. My rbc count was approaching top of the range but all my bloods have returned to normal after two months on half my original dose and I still feel great. So I figure that may try this again once I've got everything truly dialled in.

Anyways, I'm speculating how I'd manage an onset of gyno if/when I decide to blast? I've got some Arimadex but I'm not sure if I'd have to keep using it after I dropped back down to my TRT dose or whether I can just continue as I am now. I don't know if getting gyno makes one more prone in the future.

I don't think it would go down well with my doc if I explained I'd self prescribed an AI. I already think he's suspicious that I reached 2300 ng/dl on six pumps of gel (which I genuinely did).

 

[halfwit]

I think you're playing a dangerous game as is. Not only are you risking having your script yanked for abuse (medical community term, not mine), but you cannot feel or see all the negatives that come with an unchecked estradiol.

Boobs are often when things have gotten WAY out of hand. Things like polycythemia vera, prostatitis, and even cancer are risks you take, but cannot feel until it's too late.

If you want to blast, that's your decision - but it's very much in your best interests if you do it right. Get private blood work, manage estradiol, and use a different source than gels for such. I promise that your usage is tracked by prescription refills, and there will (assuming your doc is wanting to avoid FDA and DEA woes) a time that they stop filling them.

To answer your question though; blood test results tell you if you need an AI, and how much if so. Nobody can go by a total testosterone value and give you an AI dose with any real degree of certainty. It's just how the game is played.

My .02c

 

[BigStu81]

Appreciate the honesty man.

To be clear, I'm regularly having my full blood panel and estradiol checked as well as my test - doc has already said he'd prescribe an AI if necessary but my levels are ok atm.

I live in the UK so it's legal to buy steroids here as long as they're not imported and are in quantities for personal use. I just wasn't sure whether the effects of high e2 were a slippery slope once started or whether the fact I have no problems at current dose means I'd likely be ok at this dose in the future (i.e. after dropping down from a blast). I defo don't want to forfeit the supervision of my doc as currently I get all my blood tests paid for by the NHS.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Listen OP. Halfwit hit it on the head with his post. AND you need to be a little more educated in all the possible side effects of high and low Estradiol (E2).

As halfwit said by the time anyone notices Gyno the side effect from high E2 is in full swing so to speak. Now there is temporary fire to put out. You weren't taking the AI when your level of test rose and hence so the E2. I always hate to hear oh I don't need an AI until I see Gyno, but I'll keep it on hand. Like I'll tie my safety rope off, when I start / begin to fall off the roof... ... hello?

Please study Estrogen, Prolactin and Progesterone found in the sticky posts and Google. To help I'll show you a SHORT list of high estrogen sides:

High Estrogen Side Effects:-
Gynecomastia
- Anxiety & panic attacks
- Depression
- Erectile dysfunction
- Water retention
- High blood pressure
- Loss of balance/instability/dizziness
- Respiratory related concerns
- Irritability
- Low libido
- Insomnia
- Prostate related issues

Welcome and good luck

 

[halfwit]

Appreciate the honesty man.

To be clear, I'm regularly having my full blood panel and estradiol checked as well as my test - doc has already said he'd prescribe an AI if necessary but my levels are ok atm.

I live in the UK so it's legal to buy steroids here as long as they're not imported and are in quantities for personal use. I just wasn't sure whether the effects of high e2 were a slippery slope once started or whether the fact I have no problems at current dose means I'd likely be ok at this dose in the future (i.e. after dropping down from a blast). I defo don't want to forfeit the supervision of my doc as currently I get all my blood tests paid for by the NHS.

I really need to study the laws better for how things work across the big pond. My advice still stands regarding allowing blood tests determine if an AI is needed, but I don't honestly know about the legality/ethics in the UK regarding results way out of the norm.

Maybe Bigben or another Brit can pipe in on that?

 

[BigStu81]

Cheers man.

I'm defo not considering blasting until I've got things nailed down - although latest tests from last week show everything in range so far and just waiting for my total test to come back (would imagine it's at a decent level as was at 2300ng/dl before halfing my dose). Also going to donate blood next weekend for the first time and plan to continue every two months.

If/when I blast I'll likely keep it moderate and take bloods monthly. I just wasn't sure whether I can expect not to need an AI on this dose in the future on the basis that I'm doing fine now without.

EDIT: Just converted my e2 to pg/ml and it's 27.

 

[halfwit]

Cheers man.

I'm defo not considering blasting until I've got things nailed down - although latest tests from last week show everything in range so far and just waiting for my total test to come back (would imagine it's at a decent level as was at 2300ng/dl before halfing my dose). Also going to donate blood next weekend for the first time and plan to continue every two months.

If/when I blast I'll likely keep it moderate and take bloods monthly. I just wasn't sure whether I can expect not to need an AI on this dose in the future on the basis that I'm doing fine now without.

EDIT: Just converted my e2 to pg/ml and it's 27.

If your estradiol is at 27pg/ml, you don't need an AI for TRT. However, I'd be very surprised if you could get away with that on a blast.

 

[BigStu81]

I think you're probs right, man. When I was on six pumps of Tostran (the usual starting dose) my test was just above 2300 ng/dl and my estradiol shot up to 83pg/ml. I worked my ratio out to be around 25:1 which I believe is about right, but I was feeling pretty high strung.

My doc originally thought my test was a false reading from drawing close to application site but it wasn't as my hemocrit was also right at the top of the range and I was feeling pretty short tempered/agitated on days I'd not had a great night's sleep. I think it's my ultra sensitive skin absorbing far too much. I'd have big red patches for a while after application which looked like sunburn.