Approx 15lbs in both directions you should really notice a difference in your looks and performance! Great job.. post a pic!
currently taking Sermorellin (.5ml/every other day) & HCG (1.0ml/2x week)
- Thread starter lucius11
- Start date
Approx 15lbs in both directions you should really notice a difference in your looks and performance! Great job.. post a pic!
I'll think about posting a pic. I'm 6' tall and a little less than 190 lbs, so I'm not huge. I definitely see a big improvement. Here are some more details. My body loves to store fat, which makes these results even more amazing. I have not had much luck in becoming lean (let’s say less than 20% BF) in the past, even when I was young.
Had the results not been so dramatic I would have assumed that I could relax on some of the strictness in my routine. I go to the gym religiously. I watch what I eat very carefully (this really drives the wife crazy). I really never cheat with simple carbs or heavy fats … like deserts. Every once in a while I’ll take a taste of something “bad” but 99% of the time I’m pretty hard core. I make sure I follow my schedule for my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and peptides. Are all of these things really necessary? Sadly, this indeed appears to be the case.
I can tell you that I follow a modified 3J diet (basically fewer meals than the typical 3J diet). Lean protein, good fats, complex carbs … no sugar, no white bread, no pasta. This can be a bit … depressing … but I do it anyway.
For the last 2 months, I was only eating 3-4 meals a day and was often running a bit of a calorie deficit. This is because I fast for at least 2 hours before taking the peptides. Then after pinning I wait another 45 minutes to an hour before eating a meal. So this takes 3 hour chunks out of the day. There is simply not enough time to pack in 5 or 6 meals a day. With this diet I just figured that I would not gain any muscle and cut some fat.
So with the combination of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and peptides, I do not need to eat a calorie surplus to make and keep some very nice gains. Those GH pulses work their magic and the testosterone seems to ensure that the metabolism never goes catabolic. I will often fast for 2-3 hours and then do my final peptide pin and then go to bed on an empty stomach. Shouldn’t this cause all kinds of muscle loss while I sleep? It seems that this is not the case.
This is great since the goal was to lower the body fat a bit so that I can cut back or perhaps even eliminate the need for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and still keep the estrogen levels in check. So that is what I will do (very carefully) over the next few months.
You see so many posts that basically ask, how can I bulk and also lose fat at the same time. We all know the answer … it’s one or the other … bulk or cut. But with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and peptides it seems you can do both. This was not really my goal (since it seemed so unrealistic) but the results speak for themselves. With my crappy genetics/metabolism, I have to assume this would work for just about anybody.
Had the results not been so dramatic I would have assumed that I could relax on some of the strictness in my routine. I go to the gym religiously. I watch what I eat very carefully (this really drives the wife crazy). I really never cheat with simple carbs or heavy fats … like deserts. Every once in a while I’ll take a taste of something “bad” but 99% of the time I’m pretty hard core. I make sure I follow my schedule for my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and peptides. Are all of these things really necessary? Sadly, this indeed appears to be the case.
I can tell you that I follow a modified 3J diet (basically fewer meals than the typical 3J diet). Lean protein, good fats, complex carbs … no sugar, no white bread, no pasta. This can be a bit … depressing … but I do it anyway.
For the last 2 months, I was only eating 3-4 meals a day and was often running a bit of a calorie deficit. This is because I fast for at least 2 hours before taking the peptides. Then after pinning I wait another 45 minutes to an hour before eating a meal. So this takes 3 hour chunks out of the day. There is simply not enough time to pack in 5 or 6 meals a day. With this diet I just figured that I would not gain any muscle and cut some fat.
So with the combination of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and peptides, I do not need to eat a calorie surplus to make and keep some very nice gains. Those GH pulses work their magic and the testosterone seems to ensure that the metabolism never goes catabolic. I will often fast for 2-3 hours and then do my final peptide pin and then go to bed on an empty stomach. Shouldn’t this cause all kinds of muscle loss while I sleep? It seems that this is not the case.
This is great since the goal was to lower the body fat a bit so that I can cut back or perhaps even eliminate the need for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and still keep the estrogen levels in check. So that is what I will do (very carefully) over the next few months.
You see so many posts that basically ask, how can I bulk and also lose fat at the same time. We all know the answer … it’s one or the other … bulk or cut. But with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and peptides it seems you can do both. This was not really my goal (since it seemed so unrealistic) but the results speak for themselves. With my crappy genetics/metabolism, I have to assume this would work for just about anybody.
Thanks for asking, everything is all good here-still on track. I’m still getting stronger every day and feeling good. I continue to hit a new max on some body part every week or two in the gym. I'm pretty much at my goal as far as body fat goes–less than 15%. Blood pressure is low, blood sugar is good, cholesterol is low. It's a nice place to be. I'm still kinda in the state of shock over the results, especially at my age and with my genetics. The reduced body fat levels did not eliminate the need for me to take an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (I guess you can't have everything).
I'm still in the process of reducing my test dosage to keep hemoglobin levels in a more reasonable range. We all know this can be mentally–difficult. I’m expecting to perhaps lose a little momentum in the gym but this has not happened yet.
The peptides are still working their magic (perfect time to reduce the test dosage). I’m also adding back some calories into the diet and reducing the fasting time before pinning since I don’t want to get any leaner or lose any more weight. It’s hard to estimate body fat in this scenario since quite a few things are changing. For example: I have lost a little more weight in the last month but with my reduced test dosage I am assuming this was water. Hopefully I can continue the trend and add a little more muscle while keeping the BF around current levels. I’m going to give it at least another month or two and then do another Bod Pod level.
I'm still in the process of reducing my test dosage to keep hemoglobin levels in a more reasonable range. We all know this can be mentally–difficult. I’m expecting to perhaps lose a little momentum in the gym but this has not happened yet.
The peptides are still working their magic (perfect time to reduce the test dosage). I’m also adding back some calories into the diet and reducing the fasting time before pinning since I don’t want to get any leaner or lose any more weight. It’s hard to estimate body fat in this scenario since quite a few things are changing. For example: I have lost a little more weight in the last month but with my reduced test dosage I am assuming this was water. Hopefully I can continue the trend and add a little more muscle while keeping the BF around current levels. I’m going to give it at least another month or two and then do another Bod Pod level.
@lucius11
Great info. A couple of thoughts/questions..
In regards to losing weight and thinking it's water weight.. maybe but maybe not... are you keeping an accurate measurement log? Chest, arms, legs, most importantly waist? I find that doing this between bod pod or hydrostatic weighing helps keep you on track in terms of putting on good weight, bad weight or your weight not changing at all.
More importantly though, your BP, Blood sugar (how are you measuring this?), and other health factors continue to improve.. even more importantly is your still motivated, moving forward and making steady strength progress in the gym.. ie, your kicking ass brotha!
How much less T you taking every week?
Great job and keep this log updated.. it has some great info for sure.
BD7
Great info. A couple of thoughts/questions..
In regards to losing weight and thinking it's water weight.. maybe but maybe not... are you keeping an accurate measurement log? Chest, arms, legs, most importantly waist? I find that doing this between bod pod or hydrostatic weighing helps keep you on track in terms of putting on good weight, bad weight or your weight not changing at all.
More importantly though, your BP, Blood sugar (how are you measuring this?), and other health factors continue to improve.. even more importantly is your still motivated, moving forward and making steady strength progress in the gym.. ie, your kicking ass brotha!
How much less T you taking every week?
Great job and keep this log updated.. it has some great info for sure.
BD7
Thanks, I’m just enjoying the ride. Physically, I just cannot imagine feeling any better thanks to the folks at IMT (and some steady work on my part). For blood work I do regular tests at privatemdlabs.com.
I do keep a log of measurements. They have not changed much in the last two months (waist is a bit smaller). It would be great to see some size added to my arms and legs, but these things take time. I’m never going to have 18” arms or something like that, but that’s OK. I can see I am leaner than my last Bod Pod session so probably under 14% BF right now.
The reason I think some of the weight fluctuation is water is simple – nothing else has changed other than the test levels and perhaps my pre-workout drink (switched from Creatine Monohydrate to Creatine Hydrochloride for a month or two). The data from the last two Bod Pod tests suggests that I don’t lose muscle doing my normal routine. I doubt I lost 3+ lbs of fat in the last 2-3 weeks.
It’s not a big deal one way or another. I’m in the process of adding some more calories to see what happens. I’m always making changes to the workout routine to keep things moving forward.
As for test dosage I cut back to 80mg every 5 days. Since things are going so well, now is the time to find out if a lower dose will give some relief from the hemoglobin levels without causing any other major issues. I don’t seem to be particularly sensitive to the rise/fall in test levels. I could probably go to a 7 day protocol. I could very well end up with a larger dose spaced farther apart as suggested by the guys with the years of knowledge such as The-Det-Oak.
At this point, I’m actually feeling a bit better with the reduced test dose. I have a much easier time doing cardio and I seem to be getting stronger as well. I don’t exactly understand why or whether this will continue. I'll do some more blood testing in a month and see where I am. Like I said, I’m just enjoying the ride.
I do keep a log of measurements. They have not changed much in the last two months (waist is a bit smaller). It would be great to see some size added to my arms and legs, but these things take time. I’m never going to have 18” arms or something like that, but that’s OK. I can see I am leaner than my last Bod Pod session so probably under 14% BF right now.
The reason I think some of the weight fluctuation is water is simple – nothing else has changed other than the test levels and perhaps my pre-workout drink (switched from Creatine Monohydrate to Creatine Hydrochloride for a month or two). The data from the last two Bod Pod tests suggests that I don’t lose muscle doing my normal routine. I doubt I lost 3+ lbs of fat in the last 2-3 weeks.
It’s not a big deal one way or another. I’m in the process of adding some more calories to see what happens. I’m always making changes to the workout routine to keep things moving forward.
As for test dosage I cut back to 80mg every 5 days. Since things are going so well, now is the time to find out if a lower dose will give some relief from the hemoglobin levels without causing any other major issues. I don’t seem to be particularly sensitive to the rise/fall in test levels. I could probably go to a 7 day protocol. I could very well end up with a larger dose spaced farther apart as suggested by the guys with the years of knowledge such as The-Det-Oak.
At this point, I’m actually feeling a bit better with the reduced test dose. I have a much easier time doing cardio and I seem to be getting stronger as well. I don’t exactly understand why or whether this will continue. I'll do some more blood testing in a month and see where I am. Like I said, I’m just enjoying the ride.
It sounds like you keep a pretty detailed log of events, supps, food, training, etc. Based on that, are you still confident the loss in bf and gain in LBM was primarily due to the peptide protocol? testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is obviously anabolic and a lipolytic, so I would think it'd be hard to tell?
To limit the increase of ghrelin secretion (which is the hormone responsible for the increased hunger) one gets from dosing GHRP-6, I'm thinking a diet heavy in animal protein and (healthy) fats (coconut oil, pastured butter, etc.) will limit its effects and keep one satiated longer - or - something similar to a keto diet might be best to combine, getting you ripped faster using in combo with the peptides.
BTW, I am also in my early 50s and am doing all my research prior to starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), the same peptides and possibly others (i.e. CJC-1295 w/o DAC, IGF-1Lr3), etc. to add to my cut with a goal of <10% bf, then do a clean bulk to add up to 30 lbs at which point I wil again add some bf, then rinse/repeat.
FYO - sermorelin is same as Mod GRF (1-29).
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THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
The Ghrelin secretion also stimulates GH release at the anterior pituitary, so its not always a bad thing 
I know what you are saying. Nobody can be 100% sure ... but I'm pretty darn sure the peptides were a necessary piece of the fat loss puzzle. The large fat loss and improvement in joint pain correlates much better with the peptides than anything else. They are a bit expensive and I would not have spent the cash if I did not think they were working.
In any event, nothing much to report. I'm waiting another 2 weeks before doing some blood work so I can see how the reduced test dose is working out. I'm trying not to over think the reduced dosage (trying to convince myself I can't tell the difference). Things are still good at the gym (staying the same or perhaps improving just a little bit). I'm at my goal level of body fat and my weight is staying the same so the increased food intake seems to be working. I'll wait at least another month before doing another Bod Pod reading.
Short update ... got blood drawn to check the levels with my current (reduced) testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose. Everything feels good so I'm hoping the numbers back that up. I'm pretty darn lean right now. I'm just about out of peptides so I will do a Bod Pod measurement in the next two weeks and see where the BF levels are. My best guess is around 10%. No question, this is the lowest level of BF that I have ever had ... even compared to when I was young. This combination of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and peptides has been just amazing.
PS: Joint pain is still gone. Shoulders, elbows, knees - all good. It seems like I can hammer on them pretty hard and they recover in a day or two. I'm pretty sure the peptides helped in this regard since this was not the case before starting peptides. We know that test does not help the joints much since it can decrease collagen synthesis a bit (with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) level doses). So if it's not the peptides, I'm not sure what magically changed.
PS: Joint pain is still gone. Shoulders, elbows, knees - all good. It seems like I can hammer on them pretty hard and they recover in a day or two. I'm pretty sure the peptides helped in this regard since this was not the case before starting peptides. We know that test does not help the joints much since it can decrease collagen synthesis a bit (with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) level doses). So if it's not the peptides, I'm not sure what magically changed.
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Good question, I thought the same thing but never bothered to ask. This is just how IMT put things together. It's all pre-mixed, ready to go. I think you may get a better or more consistent pulse when both Ghrp2 and 6 are present. Could be a bit of overkill.
What can I say, the stuff works amazingly well. Keep in mind I went all-in. I did two full orders of peptides with L-Carnitine. Could you use less peptides or drop one of the peptides or drop the L-Carnitine and still get good results .. probably. Fat loss would probably be a bit slower. All I know is that it definately works when you use everything for several months.
In any event, the blood tests came in and look good. The current testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose is on track and I'm feeling good. Things are busy at work so I'm not sure when I can get some Bod Pod testing done (takes me about 3hrs due to travel time - weekdays only). I'm just watching the diet carefully and staying lean until I have the time. I can look in the mirror and see that my BF% is just about perfect.
What can I say, the stuff works amazingly well. Keep in mind I went all-in. I did two full orders of peptides with L-Carnitine. Could you use less peptides or drop one of the peptides or drop the L-Carnitine and still get good results .. probably. Fat loss would probably be a bit slower. All I know is that it definately works when you use everything for several months.
In any event, the blood tests came in and look good. The current testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose is on track and I'm feeling good. Things are busy at work so I'm not sure when I can get some Bod Pod testing done (takes me about 3hrs due to travel time - weekdays only). I'm just watching the diet carefully and staying lean until I have the time. I can look in the mirror and see that my BF% is just about perfect.
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
Each peptide has a saturation dose, and they all have a very synergistic effect. Instead of going up on dosage, it is wiser to add a third.
Would Ghrp-2,sermorelin , Frag at 100/100/100mcg be an appropriate combo for fat loss ?
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
Ive never done frag, from what little research ive done, and asking a few of the vets, it doesn't seem like it does much.
But why use both Ghrp -2 and Ghrp-6 since they are similar in acton and not just one of them with Serm ? What's the benefit of using two peptides of same action like these? I don't think I mentioned anything about increasing the dose ...
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
the benefit is you can take more without reaching saturation, getting a bigger pulse than from the 2 alone.
bitterdregs
New member
Great read. I read the original thread before starting with IMT myself and Todd remionded me, so I reread it and the rest of the posts. great job on the transformation! any chance there are some before and current pics you can post? love to see the results
