Thanks, i'll give it a whirl. I do appreciate your knowledge and always come to this forum first to read. I wish the internet had been around in the early '80's as our football coaches (probably most) knew nothing of how to train weights. I "learned" to squat with the bar on my spine (neck) and almost crushed vertabrae. Not to mention we lifted everything M-W-F. Luckily i joined the local gym my junior year. And i learned at a young age to clean up weights or get your ass beat.