Do steroids permanetly lower your hormone levels?

[relom]

Is there any data on long term recovery from injecting T?

For example as a 25 year old man lets say I were to do a standard cycle, take all proper protocals and run a good PCT than never take steroids again....in 5 years would my test levels be any differen't than if I never took the steroids, literally identical? Can anyone say this for CERTAIN or is this some unkown/grey area with steroids?

I see all these stories about people fucking up their T for life and i'm just confused why that's happening. And than guys say you can never fully recover, than a guy says yes you can. Very confusing bs being thrown around.

Links or explanations would be greatly appreciated (=

 

[Megatron28]

When you take exogenous testosterone it shuts down what your body produces naturally.

After you stop taking exogenous testosterone your natural production often comes back. Sometimes it returns to your original natural levels and sometimes less than that. Sometimes you are left in a hypogonadal state. There are no guarantees. You take this risk every time you run a cycle. I don't think you are going to find a study on guys who take AAS for non-medical reasons.

 

[relom]

" There are no guarantees. You take this risk every time you run a cycle. I don't think you are going to find a study on guys who take AAS for non-medical reasons."

That's more or less what the consensus seemed to be when I searched around with google.

If that's the case I don't think ill be trying them ) = Unless I got a large sum of money and can just blast T for the rest of my life, heh.

Are there any steroids that are safer for your hormones in the long run?

 

[diesel1980]

There are other things you can take that are not suppressive. Do a little research. They all have sides. Except a healthy diet and hard work!

 

[DreDay187]

Is there any data on long term recovery from injecting T?

For example as a 25 year old man lets say I were to do a standard cycle, take all proper protocals and run a good PCT than never take steroids again....in 5 years would my test levels be any differen't than if I never took the steroids, literally identical? Can anyone say this for CERTAIN or is this some unkown/grey area with steroids?

I see all these stories about people fucking up their T for life and i'm just confused why that's happening. And than guys say you can never fully recover, than a guy says yes you can. Very confusing bs being thrown around.

Links or explanations would be greatly appreciated (=

It's a risk is all you can be told. Some need TRT after a single cycle and some can cycle their whole lives without needing it. People getting fucked for life has a medical term: Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism or ASIH.

 

[Noob84]

What are the chances of getting ASIH from pro-hormones?

 

[Dr. G]

What are the chances of getting ASIH from pro-hormones?

The same as steroids, which is why I generally think prohormones are stupid.

Prohomones = all the side effects and subpar results.

 

[diesel1980]

So true.

 

[Noob84]

See, this is what confuses me about the whole "real roids" vs "orals" topic.

There are quite a few logs of PHs, where people have gained and KEPT between 10 and 20 lbs.
In 6 week cycles mind you.

On the other hand, I have read plenty of comments (there aren't a hell of a lot of injectable logs etc.) of reputable users only gaining 8-15 lbs on the real deal - in 12 weeks.

So, why do people say PHs are sub par?
What am I missing?

 

[DreDay187]

See, this is what confuses me about the whole "real roids" vs "orals" topic.

There are quite a few logs of PHs, where people have gained and KEPT between 10 and 20 lbs.
In 6 week cycles mind you.

On the other hand, I have read plenty of comments (there aren't a hell of a lot of injectable logs etc.) of reputable users only gaining 8-15 lbs on the real deal - in 12 weeks.

So, why do people say PHs are sub par?
What am I missing?

You're missing the the composition of that 10-20lbs. It most certainly isn't skeletal muscle tissue, especially in 6wks

 

[Dr. G]

See, this is what confuses me about the whole "real roids" vs "orals" topic.

There are quite a few logs of PHs, where people have gained and KEPT between 10 and 20 lbs.
In 6 week cycles mind you.

On the other hand, I have read plenty of comments (there aren't a hell of a lot of injectable logs etc.) of reputable users only gaining 8-15 lbs on the real deal - in 12 weeks.

So, why do people say PHs are sub par?
What am I missing?

Tons of variables. Not all people taking steroids are in it for the size. Look at Lance Armstrong...

Just use this logic:

If it's legal it doesn't work, and if it works it's nothing to go bragging about.

 

[Noob84]

You're missing the the composition of that 10-20lbs. It most certainly isn't skeletal muscle tissue, especially in 6wks

So what is it then? If I don't gain fat and use an AI and therefore most likely don't gain a ton of water, where is the added weight coming from?

Tons of variables. Not all people taking steroids are in it for the size. Look at Lance Armstrong...

Just use this logic:

If it's legal it doesn't work, and if it works it's nothing to go bragging about.

Well, T-Bol is illegal. T-bol works. Agreed?
Halodrol converts to Tbol... So while legal, it allows your body to generate an illegal substance to make gains...
Ergo, what's bad about Halo?

 

[DreDay187]

So what is it then? If I don't gain fat and use an AI and therefore most likely don't gain a ton of water, where is the added weight coming from?

it's a combination of water (AI will lower water retention not prevent it), fat, muscle, glycogen, increased food in the GI tract (when bulking), etc.

Well, T-Bol is illegal. T-bol works. Agreed?
Halodrol converts to Tbol... So while legal, it allows your body to generate an illegal substance to make gains...
Ergo, what's bad about Halo?

There is a difference between introducing a compound and introducing a precursor or something similar. A precursor has to work through at least one extra biological pathway before doing anything like its parent. Just bc halo converts to tbol doesn't mean it activates the same receptors to the same degree and it doesn't mean it does it on a 1 to 1 basis. They are also typically much more liver toxic than the real AAS and they just simply cannot outperform real AAS. This would also be an oral only cycle which is not optimal since your endogenous test production will be shut down

.

 

[Noob84]

I think it makes sense, that injectables are superior to orals.
Like you said, a lot more of the "good stuff" goes into your system - Agreed.
In the case of halo, only 5% actually get converted by your liver, and yes - it is bad for your liver. No doubt.
However, the 5% that do get into your system, supposedly are the real deal.
So while low and without a test base, it is still a steroid cycle.
And for people that want or need to stay within the boundaries of the law, they are pretty darn awesome if you ask me.

There is a very active member on here (no, not Matt), that has recently claimed he only gained 8 lbs on a 14 week (iirc) Tren / Test cycle.
I am sure, some of that is water too. So are PHs really that bad?
I mean Arnie and company never ran a test base either and they were the best looking BBers - ever.

 

[meatmonkey]

Op, it depends on YOU. i.e., your genetics. Some guys bounce back like a tennis ball, as others "bounce back" like a flat basketball. It comes down to YOUR GENETICS and the doses/duration of what you used. End of story...

 

[DreDay187]

I think it makes sense, that injectables are superior to orals.
Like you said, a lot more of the "good stuff" goes into your system - Agreed.
In the case of halo, only 5% actually get converted by your liver, and yes - it is bad for your liver. No doubt.
However, the 5% that do get into your system, supposedly are the real deal.
So while low and without a test base, it is still a steroid cycle.
And for people that want or need to stay within the boundaries of the law, they are pretty darn awesome if you ask me.

There is a very active member on here (no, not Matt), that has recently claimed he only gained 8 lbs on a 14 week (iirc) Tren / Test cycle.
I am sure, some of that is water too. So are PHs really that bad?
I mean Arnie and company never ran a test base either and they were the best looking BBers - ever.

Orals are typically stronger mg for mg but you just can't run as many mg's bc of the hepatoxcitiy. Injectables obviously get around the first pass so there's no need to methylate them.

My issue with the 5% getting converted is you paid for the whole dose, why not make use of it all or most of it? If you're investing in something would you want your return on investment to be less than the actual investment?

If one needs to stay within the boundaries of law I'd suggest whey protein and creatine, they'll have less negative effects than PH would. You are shutting down natural test production and risking hypogonadism for 5% of your halo dose to actually do something? Not worth it IMO.

Without body composition measurements, the 8lbs is a useless fact. Could've been 8lbs of water, muscle, fat, or shit from a backed up GI tract lol. I'm not in the habit of speculating on what others run in their cycles. I have no clue what Arnie ran but whether he looks the best ever is subjective and nothing you do will get you looking exactly like him. Pro hormone or injectable AAS. He has good genetic expression to have those proportions.

 

[Noob84]

Orals are typically stronger mg for mg but you just can't run as many mg's bc of the hepatoxcitiy. Injectables obviously get around the first pass so there's no need to methylate them.

My issue with the 5% getting converted is you paid for the whole dose, why not make use of it all or most of it? If you're investing in something would you want your return on investment to be less than the actual investment?

If one needs to stay within the boundaries of law I'd suggest whey protein and creatine, they'll have less negative effects than PH would. You are shutting down natural test production and risking hypogonadism for 5% of your halo dose to actually do something? Not worth it IMO.

Without body composition measurements, the 8lbs is a useless fact. Could've been 8lbs of water, muscle, fat, or shit from a backed up GI tract lol. I'm not in the habit of speculating on what others run in their cycles. I have no clue what Arnie ran but whether he looks the best ever is subjective and nothing you do will get you looking exactly like him. Pro hormone or injectable AAS. He has good genetic expression to have those proportions.

Well, the financial aspect is irrelevant to me.

And I for one HIGHLY doubt, that creatine and whey will yield the same results as PHs...
Maybe in the weight gain department, but creatine gains are water, nothing more.
So for the law abiding BBer, what other choices are there? None.

 

[DreDay187]

Well, the financial aspect is irrelevant to me.

And I for one HIGHLY doubt, that creatine and whey will yield the same results as PHs...
Maybe in the weight gain department, but creatine gains are water, nothing more.
So for the law abiding BBer, what other choices are there? None.

Didn't say the same results, just said results. Creatine does way more than give you water weight, it helps with mental acuity, water weight as you said, it helps optimize the Kreb's cycle and saturates your CP stores to turn ADP back to ATP which is invaluable for lifting weights, and more. With NO negative health risks.

It's your choice in the end, I'm just giving you an opinion. Do your research regardless

 

[Noob84]

Yeah... ok. I understood water. LMAO

And I value your opinion, it just seems that asking questions about PHs on here, is like asking about a 5.0 on a Chevy forum...
Doesn't matter how good it is, it'll get hated on regardless.

 

[DreDay187]

Yeah... ok. I understood water. LMAO

And I value your opinion, it just seems that asking questions about PHs on here, is like asking about a 5.0 on a Chevy forum...
Doesn't matter how good it is, it'll get hated on regardless.

That shit could get you shot I'm not really hating, I just don't see the perceived benefit compared to AAS. So much more research and experimentation has been done, studies and doctors, etc. I'm all for asking questions so def not hating on you for that. I hope to at least have given you insight into why I feel the way I do about them