Eating for recovery before bed..Facts vs Myths (lets debate)

[.Vision.]

Eating for recovery before bed..Facts vs Myths

I just wanted to put this out there, because to many bro's advocate-
"Long you hit your required protein macros before bed then there is no need to take it before bed.

Eating for recovery before bed..Facts vs Myths

I just wanted to put this out there, because to many bro's advocate-
"Long you hit your required protein macros before bed then there is no need to take it before bed.""

There is some absolute truth with consuming slow/fast acting proteins.

The speed of absorption of dietary amino acids varies according to the type of ingested dietary protein... Learn just how important slow and fast proteins, taken at the appropriate time, can affect your ability to put on lean mass.Many people avoid eating right before bed as they fear that the calories are more likely to be stored as fat. This is not the case though. Your body doesn't have an on-off switch and you still burn calories while you sleep. According to the American Dietetic Association, it's excess calories that determine whether you gain weight, not when you eat them. Too many calories at breakfast or lunch will be just as detrimental as too many calories right before bed.

Premise

As much as we may think of bodybuilding as a cloistered subculture, we are forever bombarded with training and nutritional tips from sources far removed from squat racks and posing daises. So it is with this axiom, which is such a ubiquitous feature of the sort of diets Oprah hypes that many beginning bodybuilders dare not breach it, and it breeds confusion about what and when to eat to gain only muscle and not fat

Science

When you sleep, you?re on a fast. During that fast, your body is forced to turn to your own muscle protein for fuel, converting those amino acids into glucose. In other words, while you?re in dreamland, you?re experiencing the nightmare of cannibalizing your own muscles. The longer you go before sleep without eating, the more your muscle will be eaten away. That?s why we always recommend that you end your day with a slow-digesting protein, such as a casein protein shake or cottage cheese.
(Research from Groups located in Texas, and even the Netherlands discovered that trained bodybuilders drinking a casein protein shake right before bed for eight weeks gained significantly more muscle than those who consumed the same casein shake in the middle of the day.)

Verdict

We started with the easiest myth to shoot down, for not only is it OK to chow down long after sundown, it?s crucial to eat a protein meal immediately before going to bed in order to feed your muscles the nutrients they need to recover and grow while you sleep. Go with 20-40 grams of slow-digesting protein, such as a casein shake or cottage cheese. If you?re trying to pack on mass and don?t store fat easily, take your protein with about 20-40 g of slow-digesting carbs, such as oatmeal, sweet potatoes or whole-wheat bread.

Now with this being said:
Read the study and see the charts in regards to why a slow releasing protein has a full advantage (pre-sleep)

Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Boirie Y, et al. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1997 Dec 23;94(26):14930-5.Full text at:
Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA
Vol. 94, pp. 14930?14935, December 1997
Physiology
Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial
protein accretion
(amino acid turnoverypostprandial protein anabolismymilk proteinystable isotopes)
YVES BOIRIE*, MARTIAL DANGIN*?, PIERRE GACHON*, MARIE-PAULE VASSON?, JEAN-LOUIS MAUBOIS?,
AND BERNARD BEAUFRE`RE*?
*Laboratoire de Nutrition Humaine, Universite? Clermont Auvergne, Centre de Recherche en Nutrition Humaine, BP 321, 63009 Clermont-Ferrand Cedex 1,
France; ?Nestec, Ltd., Nestle? Research Center, P.O. Box 44, CH 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland; ?Laboratoire de Biochimie, Biologie Mole?culaire et Nutrition,
Universite? Clermont Auvergne, BP 38, 63001 Clermont-Ferrand Cedex 1, France; and ?Laboratoire de Technologie Laitie`re, Institut National de la Recherche
Agronomique, 35042 Rennes Cedex, France
Communicated by John Waterlow, University of London, London, United Kingdom, October 7, 1997 (received for review April 20, 1997)
?
In relation to the 1997 Boirie study, Lyle summarized that the researchers found the following: whey spiked blood amino acid levels faster than casein, but blood amino acid levels dropped more quickly as well. Casein, in contrast, took much longer to digest, actually providing amino acids for around 8 hours to the body ... Both casein and whey hit the bloodstream at about the same time (about an hour in), that is, whey didn?t actually get into the system faster. However, whey spiked blood amino acid levels higher at that one hour point.

ABSTRACT
The speed of absorption of dietary amino
acids by the gut varies according to the type of ingested dietary
protein. This could affect postprandial protein synthesis,
breakdown, and de********** To test this hypothesis, two intrinsically
13C-leucine-labeled milk proteins, casein (CAS)
and whey protein (WP), of different physicochemical properties
were ingested as one single meal by healthy adults.
Postprandial whole body leucine kinetics were assessed by
using a dual tracer methodology. WP induced a dramatic but
short increase of plasma amino acids. CAS induced a prolonged
plateau of moderate hyperaminoacidemia, probably
because of a slow gastric emptying. Whole body protein
breakdown was inhibited by 34% after CAS ingestion but not
after WP ingestion. Postprandial protein synthesis was stimulated
by 68% with the WP meal and to a lesser extent (131%)
with the CAS meal. Postprandial whole body leucine oxidation
over 7 h was lower with CAS (272 6 91 mmolzkg21) than with
WP (373 6 56 mmolzkg21). Leucine intake was identical in
both meals (380 mmolzkg21). Therefore, net leucine balance
over the 7 h after the meal was more positive with CAS than
with WP (P < 0.05, WP vs. CAS). In conclusion, the speed of
protein digestion and amino acid absorption from the gut has
a major effect on whole body protein anabolism after one
single meal. By analogy with carbohydrate metabolism, slow
and fast proteins modulate the postprandial ********* response,
a concept to be applied to wasting situations.
Dietary carbohydrates are commonly classified as slow and fast
because it now is well recognized that their structure affects
their speed of absorption, which in turn has a major impact on
the ********* and hormonal response to a meal (1). On the
other hand, little is known about whether postprandial protein
kinetics are affected by the speed of absorption of dietary
amino acids; the latter is very variable, depending on gastric
and intestinal motility, luminal digestion, and finally mucosal
absorption. This lack of data is due to the fact that postprandial
amino acid kinetics have been studied almost exclusively
during continuous feeding, obtained either by a nasogastric
infusion or by small repeated meals (2?7). Measurements are
done 2?4 h after initiation of feeding, once isotopic and
substrate steady-state is achieved. Under these conditions, any
difference related to the speed of dietary amino acid absorption
is blunted.
There is, however, indirect evidence that this parameter
might be of importance. Indeed, the postprandial amino acid
levels differ a lot depending on the mode of administration of


a dietary protein; a single protein meal results in an acute but
transient peak of amino acids (9?11) whereas the same amount
of the same protein given in a continuous manner, which
mimics a slow absorption, induces a smaller but prolonged
increase (12). Amino acids are potent modulators of protein
synthesis, breakdown, and oxidation, so such different patterns
of postprandial amino acidemia might well result in different
postprandial protein kinetics and gain. Of interest, whole body
leucine balance, an index of protein deposition, was shown
recently to differ under these two circumstances (13).
Therefore, our hypothesis was that the speed of absorption
by the gut of amino acids derived from dietary proteins might
affect whole body protein synthesis, breakdown, and oxidation,
which in turn control protein de********** To test this hypothesis,
we compared those parameters, assessed by leucine
kinetics, after ingestion of a single meal containing either whey
protein (WP) or casein (CAS), taken as paradigms for ??fast??
and ??slow?? proteins, respectively. Indeed, WP is a soluble
protein whereas CAS clots into the stomach, which delays its
gastric emptying and thus probably results in a slower release
of amino acids (14). Speed of amino acid absorption was
directly assessed by using a newly developed tracer, i.e., milk
protein fractions intrinsically labeled with L-[1-13C]leucine
(15). Leucine kinetics were modelized by using non-steadystate
equations as recently described (16). Our results demonstrate
that amino acids derived from CAS are indeed slowly
released from the gut and that slow and fast proteins differently
modulate postprandial changes of whole body protein
synthesis, breakdown, oxidation, and de**********


I just wanted to post some of the study.. I will include the hyper link below that provides full detail,in regards to fast/slow proteins/and aminos..

(Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein)

Now with this being said more reads in regards-

ne)levels peak during sleep. 75 percent of daily hGH output is produced nse to get all the nutrients you'll need, then let the GH do
tNow what protein is the best to
consume prior to sleeping?
"Casein "

Keep reading

What is casein protein?
Casein (pronounced kay-seen) is the predominant protein found in milk. It is made by separating the casein from the whey in dairy (milk protein is 80 percent casein and 20 percent whey). There are three main types of casein protein: micellar casein, milk protein isolate and calcium caseinate. On average, one scoop (30 grams) of casein protein powder has approximately 100-120 calories and 25 grams of protein.

Besides its slow-digesting benefits, casein is invaluable for its high glutamine content. Of all the protein powders available, casein has the highest concentration of this amino acid. Glutamine provides a multitude of functions, which include increasing levels of the branched chain amino acid leucine in muscle fibers, enhancing protein synthesis and therefore, muscle growth. Because the immune system requires glutamine to function, consuming extra glutamine prevents the immune system from stealing it from muscle fibers, further averting catabolism. Glutamine also boosts growth hormone levels and can even aid fat loss by increasing the amount of calories and body fat burned both at rest and during exercise.

Do ?blended? proteins offer the same effect as straight casein?
Either protein supplements are straight whey, soy, egg or casein; or they are a combination of any or all of these kinds of proteins, making them blends. What can a blend of proteins offer that a straight protein cannot? Basically, different rates of digestion. This means you can take a blended protein any time to get quick, medium, and prolonged absorption of protein.

But, I really like my ?whey? protein supplement.
Turn your favorite whey protein shake into a slow digesting one by simply mixing with milk, preferably low fat or skimmed. While casein protein is ?optimal? before bed, don?t forget that milk is 80 percent casein, adding it to any whey protein will slow down its absorption. Adding a fat such as natural peanut butter, flax or other healthy fat can further slow digestion, thus ?mimicking? casein protein.

_____________________________

To close the read and get to the conclusion here..
Don't deprive yourself, and fall for the hoopla that if you consume your proper intake of macro's that you don't need protein prior to rest/recovery(sleep)..
It most certainly won't hinder your gains on a large scale,but it surely is more beneficial than going without!

Regards,
Vision

 

[Mad- scientist]

I've always thought casein protein before bed was one of the most beneficial things that you can take to maintain muscle. Blueberry's and crème from optimum nutrition was always my favorite casein protein to take.

 

[Teutonic]

Nice topic Vision,

...and my "vision" being down to one headlight..and a low beam at that appreciates the bigger size type .

In layman s terms I can only refer to one guy s approach-mine. I eat (mostly) well rounded meals...of average proportion 5-6 times a day..w number 6 or number 1 around 2-4 a m depending on my terrible sleep patterns. That middle of the night early morning feed is usually 4 boiled egg s w whole wheat bread or bagel.

The word BREAKFAST literally mean upon waking, the 1 st meal of the day "breaks the previous fast " of 6, 8 or 10 hours. I ve given up writing diets, writing training routines for people at work or at the gym. It seems every time I take a "body recomp" rookie or civilian under my wing , their resolve, last 1 week...2 max and I see them either walk by stuffing their face w a chicken wing or sitting in front of a bag of taco s watching football.
Great breakdown of k ceen b t w. I only drink 2 percent milk...some...and use it to bake with...grown males and whole milk ( cow puss)..ain t natural. Nowhere else in nature is this phenomenon existent. That type of fat does not break down easily and few grown men outside our lifestyle or very physical work description s I know of... need that much energy.

( Speaking of unnatural-- men on men a pounding each other... I digress...that goes in the Gen Dis or Psyche forum under sub-section 666---Perverse Behavior..)

 

[.Vision.]

I've always thought casein protein before bed was one of the most beneficial things that you can take to maintain muscle. Blueberry's and crème from optimum nutrition was always my favorite casein protein to take.

Nice topic Vision,

...and my "vision" being down to one headlight..and a low beam at that appreciates the bigger size type .

In layman s terms I can only refer to one guy s approach-mine. I eat (mostly) well rounded meals...of average proportion 5-6 times a day..w number 6 or number 1 around 2-4 a m depending on my terrible sleep patterns. That middle of the night early morning feed is usually 4 boiled egg s w whole wheat bread or bagel.

The word BREAKFAST literally mean upon waking, the 1 st meal of the day "breaks the previous fast " of 6, 8 or 10 hours. I ve given up writing diets, writing training routines for people at work or at the gym. It seems every time I take a "body recomp" rookie or civilian under my wing , their resolve, last 1 week...2 max and I see them either walk by stuffing their face w a chicken wing or sitting in front of a bag of taco s watching football.
Great breakdown of k ceen b t w. I only drink 2 percent milk...some...and use it to bake with...grown males and whole milk ( cow puss)..ain t natural. Nowhere else in nature is this phenomenon existent. That type of fat does not break down easily and few grown men outside our lifestyle or very physical work description s I know of... need that much energy.

( Speaking of unnatural-- men on men a pounding each other... I digress...that goes in the Gen Dis or Psyche forum under sub-section 666---Perverse Behavior..)

I tried the casein (( ewwww )) the stuff is horid, and think as hell too.. but mostly before bed I'll take my peps/GH an then I'll make a shake using nectar protein powder (no carbs,no fat) its like juice...I;ll adds some natty peanut butter and a bananan...at times Ill use the casein, but thats when I sleep for longer then 9-10 hrs after a long shift or that sunday much needed rest day,,

 

[Teutonic]

There are definitely some FIRM guidelines w respect to training HARD and adeq. food and good food to recover. Granted.

And armed with more knowledge allows us all to find out what works best for themselves. I personally do not do any supplements--not saying they do not work---I prefer food. Love food. Often. Most protein sup s in a shake form make my a m b move either tougher or not as scheduled. 20 ms after waking..or my whole day literally goes to shit as going anywhere but where I ve cleaned is not cool.

 

[.Vision.]

Have tried these nectar's though? amazing!!!

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

No offence Vision but your conclusion is factually incorrect, the title is highly ironic and I see the article in general as nothing but another chance to spread misinformation.

1) That's an ACUTE study - it does absolutely nothing to show that somehow consuming slow digesting protein before bed will result in more gains.
2) The vast majority of the studies show that the speed of digestion is IRRELEVANT provided overall daily intake is good.
3) My anecdotal experience with many clients also shows that consuming protein before recovery/sleep, etc does NOT provide any additional benefit if overall protein intake was good to begin with.

Here is how the protein hierarchy of importance goes:
Daily intake > protein distribution > protein quality > specific protein timing (before bed, around workouts, etc)

So focusing on daily protein intake rather than timing is not "hoopla" - its called effective prioritizing.
The idea that consuming protein before sleep will somehow give you an additional benefit is complete "hoopla" because recovery is a 24/7 thing - not an on/off switch based around bedtime.

 

[.Vision.]

No offence Vision but your conclusion is factually incorrect, the title is highly ironic and I see the article in general as nothing but another chance to spread misinformation.

1) That's an ACUTE study - it does absolutely nothing to show that somehow consuming slow digesting protein before bed will result in more gains.
2) The vast majority of the studies show that the speed of digestion is IRRELEVANT provided overall daily intake is good.
3) My anecdotal experience with many clients also shows that consuming protein before recovery/sleep, etc does NOT provide any additional benefit if overall protein intake was good to begin with.

Here is how the protein hierarchy of importance goes:
Daily intake > protein distribution > protein quality > specific protein timing (before bed, around workouts, etc)

So focusing on daily protein intake rather than timing is not "hoopla" - its called effective prioritizing.
The idea that consuming protein before sleep will somehow give you an additional benefit is complete "hoopla" because recovery is a 24/7 thing - not an on/off switch based around bedtime.

If you read the head line...its says debate,,,im willing to debate...im not disagreeing...id like to see, hear and read studies.... dont post opinions...lets have a real debate here...

No one claims more gains, but prove that it's NOT beneficial...

Im hear to listen....

lets talk.. I have all day!

Id like to hear how it fails to assist maintenance an recovery?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I'm glad to hear your open minded enough to see why the article is wrong

Well first of all, I'm only aware of 3 studies having ever looked at the impact of casein pre-bed on muscle hypertrophy:

1) Intragastric protein administration stimulates overnight muscle protein synthesis in elderly men. - PubMed - NCBI
- Elderly men who have well know "anabolic resistance" issues that require more attention to protein timing, etc.
- Acute study
- Protein intake wasn't matched between groups and no exercise protocol was used

2) Protein ingestion before sleep improves postexercise overnight recovery. - PubMed - NCBI
- Acute study
- Protein intake wasn't matched between groups making it impossible to determine whether the higher protein balance was due to protein timing or the fact that the group consumed 40g MORE protein overall. My bet is on higher intake = higher protein balance.

3) Protein ingestion before sleep improves postexercise overnight recovery. - PubMed - NCBI
- 12 week study with a structured training programme looking at the impact of casein pre-bed specifically.
- Protein intake not matched between groups making it impossible to determine whether the extra gains in strength was due to protein timing or higher protein intake (my bet, again, is on the latter).
- LBM increased in BOTH groups with NO significance difference between the groups.

As you can see, the scientific literature fails to support the position that pre-bed protein timing has any magical advantage when it comes to aiding in recovery compared to other timing strategies.
So if your only interested in the data - this debate seems to be over.


The protein hierarchy of importance I previously gave is also supported by a well known meta-analysis that shows that the topics lower on the hierarchy (timing, quality, etc) only become important when the higher level stuff is insufficient (daily intake, reasonable distribution, etc):
Nutrient timing revisited: is there a post-exercise anabolic window? - PubMed - NCBI


And then I can go on & on about how, if overall protein intake is sufficient, human biology doesn't give us any reason whatsoever to assume a magical advantage to pre-bed protein ingestion for recovery purposes...but I'll leave it for now.

 

[.Vision.]

Now its easy to find anything to support anything... but this was a stud as well, not just an read....
your post are contradicting , like all studies do...

Now with this being said:
Read the study and see the charts in regards to why a slow releasing protein has a full advantage (pre-sleep)

Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Boirie Y, et al. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1997 Dec 23;94(26):14930-5.Full text at:
Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA
Vol. 94, pp. 14930?14935, December 1997
Physiology
Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial
protein accretion
(amino acid turnoverypostprandial protein anabolismymilk proteinystable isotopes)
YVES BOIRIE*, MARTIAL DANGIN*?, PIERRE GACHON*, MARIE-PAULE VASSON?, JEAN-LOUIS MAUBOIS?,
AND BERNARD BEAUFRE`RE*?
*Laboratoire de Nutrition Humaine, Universite? Clermont Auvergne, Centre de Recherche en Nutrition Humaine, BP 321, 63009 Clermont-Ferrand Cedex 1,
France; ?Nestec, Ltd., Nestle? Research Center, P.O. Box 44, CH 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland; ?Laboratoire de Biochimie, Biologie Mole?culaire et Nutrition,
Universite? Clermont Auvergne, BP 38, 63001 Clermont-Ferrand Cedex 1, France; and ?Laboratoire de Technologie Laitie`re, Institut National de la Recherche
Agronomique, 35042 Rennes Cedex, France
Communicated by John Waterlow, University of London, London, United Kingdom, October 7, 1997 (received for review April 20, 1997)
?
In relation to the 1997 Boirie study, Lyle summarized that the researchers found the following: whey spiked blood amino acid levels faster than casein, but blood amino acid levels dropped more quickly as well. Casein, in contrast, took much longer to digest, actually providing amino acids for around 8 hours to the body ... Both casein and whey hit the bloodstream at about the same time (about an hour in), that is, whey didn?t actually get into the system faster. However, whey spiked blood amino acid levels higher at that one hour point.


so I suppose these findings are wrong?????


Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2012 Aug;44(8):1560-9. doi: 10.1249/MSS.0b013e31824cc363.
Protein ingestion before sleep improves postexercise overnight recovery.
Res PT1, Groen B, Pennings B, Beelen M, Wallis GA, Gijsen AP, Senden JM, VAN Loon LJ.
Author information
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
The role of nutrition in modulating postexercise overnight recovery remains to be elucidated. We assessed the effect of protein ingestion immediately before sleep on digestion and absorption kinetics and protein metabolism during overnight recovery from a single bout of resistance-type exercise.
METHODS:
Sixteen healthy young males performed a single bout of resistance-type exercise in the evening (2000 h) after a full day of dietary standardization. All subjects were provided with appropriate recovery nutrition (20 g of protein, 60 g of CHO) immediately after exercise (2100 h). Thereafter, 30 min before sleep (2330 h), subjects ingested a beverage with (PRO) or without (PLA) 40 g of specifically produced intrinsically [1-C]phenylalanine-labeled casein protein. Continuous intravenous infusions with [ring-H5]phenylalanine and [ring-H2]tyrosine were applied with blood and muscle samples collected to assess protein digestion and absorption kinetics, whole-body protein balance and mixed muscle protein synthesis rates throughout the night (7.5 h).
RESULTS:
During sleep, casein protein was effectively digested and absorbed resulting in a rapid rise in circulating amino acid levels, which were sustained throughout the remainder of the night. Protein ingestion before sleep increased whole-body protein synthesis rates (311 ± 8 vs 246 ± 9 ***956;mol·kg per 7.5 h) and improved net protein balance (61 ± 5 vs -11 ± 6 ***956;mol·kg per 7.5 h) in the PRO vs the PLA experiment (P < 0.01). Mixed muscle protein synthesis rates were ***8764;22% higher in the PRO vs the PLA experiment, which reached borderline significance (0.059%·h ± 0.005%·h vs 0.048%·h ± 0.004%·h, P = 0.05).
CONCLUSIONS:
This is the first study to show that protein ingested immediately before sleep is effectively digested and absorbed, thereby stimulating muscle protein synthesis and improving whole-body protein balance during postexercise overnight recovery.

^^^ even the above suggest that is assist with recovery and muscle protein synthesis... regardless of the protein... protein is protein!

So, per you remark, im NOT entirly WRONG ( with your lil smile there )

and your first study is about OLDER MEN WHO DONT TRAIN! REALLY???

 

[Mountain-Man]

I try to have a casin or whey shake every night right at bed time

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Ok its clear that you have no idea what the implications of the data are so I'll break it down for you with the take home points in bold:

The study you used to support your statement that casein helps with recovery doesn't actually say what you think it says.
The study didn't measure recovery, hypertrophy, performance or anything else - it simply shows the different AA delivery rates. Your ASSUMING from that data that casein due to the slower rate of AA delivery over a longer period of time will result in better recovery.
The findings of the study are correct, its your interpretation of what those findings mean that's wrong.

I have shown you the ONLY studies that have EVER actually measured the impact of pre-bed casein on hypertrophy, performance & recovery. Yes, I included the study in elderly men in order to be transparent.
You've read the abstract of the 2012 study and automatically assumed it supports your position - I've read the full paper, like a real researcher should, and highlighted the major flaws associated with it.
Protein intake was NOT matched - do you have any idea how major a study design flaw this is when your focused on proving the impact of protein timing? Its massive - as indicated by the meta-analysis I showed you that takes into account ALL the studies on nutrient timing.

Let me be very, very clear...
You've assumed from the 1997 study that the slower rate of AA absorption will lead to better recovery even if daily protein intake was sufficient.
The 3 studies that have actually looked at this issue have not, due to the major design flaws I've highlighted, supported your assumption.
Therefore it is safe to say that your assumption, and the main base of your article, is wrong when judged on its scientific merit.

 

[Manski]

No question I am out classed and under researched in this debate but I will add my opinion. I just can't see how it is not beneficial not to take a casein shake before bed. The slow digesting protein allows your body to feed some what through the night instead of on our own muscle. My 2 cent

 

[.Vision.]

I have provided enough detail like a "real researcher does", the dates and time do NOT override or minimize anything...Try being informed instead of being opinionated!!

Im merely trying to share with the community, but your sassy "your wrong comments are rather interfering with my attempts to share with the forum"
It seems that your making assumptions about my character creating a false perception of things, clearly because they do not meet your approval, but that's ok Mr.RippedGoogle..
You would argue with a fence post here if you could...There's enough research that I've humbly supporting concerning macro's and proteins assisting in management and muscle rejuvenation and creating NEW cells in which are rejuvenated during sleep phase with an acquitted delivering concerning macros/proteins muscle muscle cells and the nervous system , yielding in an extra amount of oxygen and nutrients which facilitate their healing and growth, as it's been proven by numerous clinical studies that it's the most ideal time for replenishment due to the fast that the body is NOT moving, allowing repair... low muscle protein synthesis rates during overnight sleep could be simply attributed to the limited plasma amino acid availability throughout the night. Consequently, now we can questioned whether protein provision during sleep would represent a feasible dietary strategy to increase overnight plasma amino acid availability.....In fact, it does!

Dietary protein ingestion immediately after exercise increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis rates, thereby facilitating the skeletal muscle adaptive response to prolonged exercise training. However, the post-exercise increase in muscle protein synthesis rate is not maintained during subsequent overnight sleep. Recent work shows that protein ingested prior to sleep is effectively digested and absorbed during the night, thereby increasing plasma amino acid availability and stimulating post-exercise muscle protein accretion during post-exercise overnight sleep. Consequently, dietary protein ingestion prior to sleep may represent an effective dietary strategy to inhibit muscle protein breakdown, stimulate muscle protein synthesis, facilitate the skeletal muscle adaptive response to exercise training and improve exercise training effectiveness...

REFERENCES
Beelen M., R. Koopman, A.P. Gijsen, H. Vandereyt, A.K. Kies, H. Kuipers, W.H. Saris, and L.J. van Loon (2008a). Protein coingestion stimulates muscle protein synthesis during resistance-type exercise. Am. J. Physiol. 295: E70-77.
Beelen M., M. Tieland, A.P. Gijsen, H. Vandereyt, A.K. Kies, H. Kuipers, W.H. Saris, R. Koopman, and L.J. van Loon (2008b). Coingestion of carbohydrate and protein hydrolysate stimulates muscle protein synthesis during exercise in young men, with no further increase during subsequent overnight recovery. J. Nutr. 138: 2198-2204.
Beelen M., L.M. Burke, M.J. Gibala, and L.J. van Loon (2011a). Nutritional strategies to promote postexercise recovery. Int. J. Sport Nutr. Exerc. Metab. 20: 515-532.
Beelen M., A. Zorenc, B. Pennings, J.M. Senden, H. Kuipers, and L.J. van Loon (2011b). Impact of protein coingestion on muscle protein synthesis during continuous endurance type exercise. Am. J. Physiol. 300:E945-954.
Elliot T.A., M.G. Cree, A.P. Sanford, R.R. Wolfe, and K.D. Tipton (2006). Milk ingestion stimulates net muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 38: 667-674.
Furukawa Y., I.J. Cook, V. Panagopoulos, R.D. McEvoy, D.J. Sharp, and M. Simula (1994). Relationship between sleep patterns and human colonic motor patterns. Gastroenterology 107: 1372-1381.
Groen B.B., P.T. Res, B. Pennings, E. Hertle, J.M. Senden, W.H. Saris, and L.J. van Loon (2011). Intragastric protein administration stimulates overnight muscle protein synthesis in elderly men. Am. J. Physiol. 302: E52-60.
Howarth K.R., N.A. Moreau, S.M. Phillips, and M.J. Gibala (2009). Coingestion of protein with carbohydrate during recovery from endurance exercise stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in humans. J. Appl. Physiol. 106: 1394-1402.
Koopman R., D.L. Pannemans, A.E. Jeukendrup, A.P. Gijsen, J.M. Senden, D Halliday, W.H. Saris, L.J. van Loon, and A.J. Wagenmakers (2004). Combined ingestion of protein and carbohydrate improves protein balance during ultra- endurance exercise. Am. J. Physiol. 287: E712-720.
Koopman R., A.J. Wagenmakers, R.J. Manders, A.H. Zorenc, J.M. Senden, M.Gorselink, H.A. Keizer, and L.J. van Loon (2005). Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects. Am. J. Physiol. 288: E645-653.
Koopman R., L. Verdijk, R.J. Manders, A.P. Gijsen, M. Gorselink, E. Pijpers, A.J. Wagenmakers, and L.J. van Loon (2006). Co-ingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis rates to the same extent in young and elderly lean men. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 84: 623-632.
Koopman R., M. Beelen, T. Stellingwerff, B. Pennings, W.H. Saris, A.K. Kies, H.Kuipers, and L.J. van Loon (2007). Coingestion of carbohydrate with protein does not further augment postexercise muscle protein synthesis. Am. J. Physiol. 293: E833-842.
Kumar D., C. Idzikowski, D.L. Wingate, E.E. Soffer, P. Thompson, and C Siderfin (1990). Relationship between enteric migrating motor complex and the sleep cycle. Am. J. Physiol. 259: G983-990.
Levenhagen D.K., J.D. Gresham, M.G. Carlson, D.J. Maron, M.J. Borel, and P.J.
Flakoll (2001). Postexercise nutrient intake timing in humans is critical to recovery of leg glucose and protein homeostasis. Am. J. Physiol. 280: E982-993.
Moore D.R., M.J. Robinson, J.L. Fry, J.E. Tang, E.I. Glover, S.B. Wilkinson, T. Prior, M.A. Tarnopolsky, and S.M. Phillips (2009). Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 89:161-168.
Pennings B., Y. Boirie, J.M. Senden, A.P. Gijsen, H. Kuipers, and L.J. van Loon (2011). Whey protein stimulates postprandial muscle protein accretion more effectively than do casein and casein hydrolysate in older men. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 93: 997-1005.
Pennings B., B. Groen, A. de Lange, A.P. Gijsen, A.H. Zorenc, J.M. Senden, and L.J. van Loon (2012) Amino acid absorption and subsequent muscle protein accretion following graded intakes of whey protein in elderly men. Am. J. Physiol. 302: E992-999
Phillips S.M., K.D. Tipton, A. Aarsland, S.E. Wolf, and R.R. Wolfe (1997). Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. Am. J. Physiol. 273: E99-107.
Res P.T., B. Groen, B. Pennings, M. Beelen, G.A. Wallis, A.P. Gijsen, J.M. Senden, and L.J. van Loon (2012). Protein ingestion prior to sleep improves post- exercise overnight recovery. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 44:1560-1569.
Tang J.E., D.R. Moore, G.W. Kujbida, M.A. Tarnopolsky, and S.M. Phillips (2009).
Ingestion of whey hydrolysate, casein, or soy protein isolate: Effects on mixed muscle protein synthesis at rest and following resistance exercise in young men. J. Appl. Physiol. 107:987-992.
Tipton K.D., A.A. Ferrando, S.M. Phillips, D. Doyle, Jr., and R.R. Wolfe (1999).
Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am. J. Physiol. 276:E628-634.
Tipton K.D., B.B. Rasmussen, S.L. Miller, S.E. Wolf, S.K. Owens-Stovall, B.E. Petrini, and R.R. Wolfe (2001). Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am. J. Physiol. 281:E197-206.
Tipton K.D., T.A. Elliott, M.G. Cree, S.E. Wolf, A.P. Sanford, and R.R. Wolfe (2004).
Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 36:2073-2081.
Wilkinson S.B., M.A. Tarnopolsky, M.J. Macdonald, J.R. Macdonald, D. Armstrong, and S.M. Phillips (2007). Consumption of fluid skim milk promotes greater muscle protein accretion after resistance exercise than does consumption of an isonitrogenous and isoenergetic soy-protein beverage. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 85:1031-1040.
Yang Y., L. Breen, N.A. Burd, A.J. Hector, T.A. Churchward-Venne, A.R. Josse, M.A. Tarnopolsky, and S.M. Phillips. (2012). Resistance exercise enhances myofibrillar protein synthesis with graded intakes of whey protein in older men. Br. J. Nutr. 108:1780-1788


3.1. Young, Active Individuals

It is well known that acute improvements in muscle protein synthesis, glycogen resynthesis, anabolic hormones, and performance outcomes are optimized when nutrients are consumed in close proximity to exercise (i.e., before, during, or immediately after exercise) [55,56,57,58] rather than delaying intake for hours before and after exercise [59,60]. Of interest, but lacking scientific support, is whether the consumption of nutrients prior to sleep has the potential to augment physiological adaptations and outcomes, perhaps when combined with traditional nutrient timing strategies. The benefits of a nocturnal supply of nutrients during the overnight period may have a pivotal role in sport and performance nutrition as active individuals, athletes, and fitness enthusiasts alike are constantly looking for ways to maximize physiological adaptations, achieve optimal body composition, and improve performance.

Protein intake prior to sleep is commonplace among active individuals but until now, evidence-based outcomes from this practice were nonexistent [47,52]. Res et al. [52] was the first to investigate whether casein protein consumed before sleep could improve post-exercise recovery. Following a full day of dietary standardization, sixteen recreationally active males performed a single 45 min bout of resistance type exercise in the evening (2000 h). Immediately following exercise all participants were given identical post-exercise beverages (60 g carbohydrate, 20 g whey protein). Approximately 30 min before sleep (~2.5 h post-exercise) participants received either 40 g of casein protein (160 kcals; intrinsically l-[1-13C]phenylalanine-labeled casein obtained from Holstein cow infusion) or a non-caloric placebo beverage. Compared to the placebo group, those receiving the casein before sleep had higher plasma essential amino acid concentrations indicating that protein ingestion before sleep was effectively digested and absorbed. The increase in amino acid availability translated to higher whole-body and muscle protein synthesis rates (~22%, Figure 1A) and a net positive protein balance during the overnight period in the group receiving protein compared to the placebo control [52].

The Health Impact of Nighttime Eating: Old and New Perspectives

 

[soldier74]

Vision! Man you said you wanted to debate this. Stop getting upset with the fact that someone is debating this with you. That's what u asked for. Remain calm and debate on!! Good stuff here to take from both sides. Thanks!

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

It always amuses me when someone encourages a debate and then resorts to ad hominem attacks like you are (note that I never criticized you, just the misinformed article you wrote) - its pretty much admitting defeat

How ironic that you think I'm just a Google researcher when here is the obvious proof that you don't read the studies in full and are the real Google dude...
The Res 2012 study I provided, and that your now assuming supports you based on the abstract, had this major flaw that would ONLY be identified if you actually read the full study like I have:
- Protein intake was 1.2 vs 1.74g/kg - this ALONE means it cannot possibly support your position on pre-bed casein helping with recovery regardless of daily protein intake amount because the daily amount was NOT controlled.

I appreciate your attempts to share with the community.
Unfortunately, you don't have the knowledge required in this field or the research skills necessary to provide accurate information with regards to nutrition - that's why I called you out, it wasn't personal. It was just my way of ensuring that people don't automatically assume your article is accurate because it has some, misapplied, scientific evidence.
Whether people think I'm the right guy to dissect such information is something I'll leave to the readers to decide - I've been around here long enough for most people to know my background, qualifications, etc.

 

[.Vision.]

I was merely helping the community, humbly!

It always amuses me when someone encourages a debate and then resorts to ad hominem attacks like you are (note that I never criticized you, just the misinformed article you wrote) - its pretty much admitting defeat

How ironic that you think I'm just a Google researcher when here is the obvious proof that you don't read the studies in full and are the real Google dude...
The Res 2012 study I provided, and that your now assuming supports you based on the abstract, had this major flaw that would ONLY be identified if you actually read the full study like I have:
- Protein intake was 1.2 vs 1.74g/kg - this ALONE means it cannot possibly support your position on pre-bed casein helping with recovery regardless of daily protein intake amount because the daily amount was NOT controlled.

I appreciate your attempts to share with the community.
Unfortunately, you don't have the knowledge required in this field or the research skills necessary to provide accurate information with regards to nutrition - that's why I called you out, it wasn't personal. It was just my way of ensuring that people don't automatically assume your article is accurate because it has some, misapplied, scientific evidence.
Whether people think I'm the right guy to dissect such information is something I'll leave to the readers to decide - I've been around here long enough for most people to know my background, qualifications, etc.

No one admitted defeat your assuming you have done so by proclaiming it, now your utilizing you're ego as some sort of resume that your well rounded by expressing that I fail to posses any sort of intellect or understanding in this lifestyle.. If you think for one moment that I'm new to this game, then I'm rather confident that a demitasse would fit your head like a sombrero.. In lieu of you citing "I was in correct" you openly amplified that I was "WRONG ( unnecessarily calling me out, most ego operate in this fashion), there's multiple ways in which you could have made mention that there's other findings, such as corrections and sharing your experience..Your verbosity was exceeded only by your total ignorance and lack of respect!

Rest assure, if you rely on your credentials or popularity to support your notion, that's fine... On the other hand, I'll hope and expect readers will conduct their own research rather then take your "post" as the mecca that represents all findings..

Research is being conducted daily, so now ask yourself this -What have you to gain by pointing out that was so wrong! with "My article supported with people that possess more credentials then you or I for that matter with their findings" .. If it is not much, consider not saying anything at all in order to saving your reputation by engaging in a confrontational effort for battles that actually don't matter.

My posts have proved enough, so I suggest the readers do their own research, rather then VOTE on your extended time here.....

If you fail to agree on this topic, then I question your knowledge in this lifestyle... I've shared enough to support that I'm well rounded and I can debate with the best!

Have a great day and Sit down, give your mind a rest - it obviously needs it.

 

[Teutonic]

I know what works for me.....food...I m clear....

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

No one admitted defeat your assuming you have done so by proclaiming it, now your utilizing you're ego as some sort of resume that your well rounded by expressing that I fail to posses any sort of intellect or understanding in this lifestyle..

Your inability to provide evidence that actually supports your article and your decision to resort to ad hominem attacks is as good as an admittance of defeat in my eyes - I've been in enough "debates" to know the patterns.
I also expressed that you don't have the required knowledge to write an article on this specific topic - not regarding this lifestyle in general. I stand by this.

Rest assure, if you rely on your credentials or popularity to support your notion, that's fine... On the other hand, I'll hope and expect readers will conduct their own research rather then take your "post" as the mecca that represents all findings..

Well that's weird...I thought it was pretty clear that I was relying on the scientific evidence available rather than my "credentials", especially when you made it clear that this was about scientific evidence, not opinions.

Research is being conducted daily, so now ask yourself this -What have you to gain by pointing out that was so wrong! with "My article supported with people that possess more credentials then you or I for that matter with their findings" .. If it is not much, consider not saying anything at all in order to saving your reputation by engaging in a confrontational effort for battles that actually don't matter.

Are you serious?
You want me to ignore an article I consider to be wrong when it could mislead so many into believing that its true?
You don't think debates like this matter when it encourages readers to look at the evidence as a whole rather than believing everything they read?

Its not about personal gain or reputation, its about making sure readers have access to ACCURATE information - something I take very seriously.

My posts have proved enough, so I suggest the readers do their own research, rather then VOTE on your extended time here.....
If you fail to agree on this topic, then I question your knowledge in this lifestyle... I've shared enough to support that I'm well rounded and I can debate with the best!
Have a great day and Sit down, give your mind a rest - it obviously needs it.

Your posts have proven that different protein sources have different rates of AA absorption - that's it.

Your article is based on casein pre-bed enhancing recovery regardless of daily protein intake being adequate.
To truly support your article, your looking for a study where protein was equal, dietary intake was controlled and that showed casein pre-bed to have a benefit compared to other strategies.
That's what it takes to justify your article and overall position in this debate and guess what? I know for a fact that this study doesn't exist so.....your article lacks scientific merit in my eyes. As I've been saying over & over again.

You can question my lifestyle all you want - I'm actually trying VERY hard not to repeatedly talk about my background since its something I've been criticized for previously.
I do agree that we should let the information speak for itself & allow the readers to make up their own minds

 

[.Vision.]

Im not new to the world, or the forums...im have a ton of article that are well written, and taken great care with research...shared in many places!

lets agree that we both have 2 different points of views,,,have you seen my work? show me some of yours, and I'll do the same...

I wont boast or brag, but I can hold my own...too

lets see what the readers say,,, im pondering the feedback on results, if anyone actually notices anything with their training/results/protocol, ect...

lets sit back as see how this goes!