end of week 4 pics ...........
- Thread starter Matt0071
- Start date
3rdinfintry
New member
It started around when I started using the HGH.. Could that be it?
bigkit34
New member
It could be but i would think it would bother you on more than just biceps if it was the GH. Not saying thats def not it, but if you have insurance i would get it checked out
Protobuilder69
New member
From now on i try to give solid advice.
My take on the pump, heavy weight thing is, both are important for muscle growth.
If you dont get stronger you will never get bigger, plain and simple, a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle, but a pump does have its place for a bodybuilder, Im not talking about grabbing the pink dumbells and doing 1000 bicep curls, Im talking a heavy weight at 6-10 reps and get a pump. The pump will stretch the fascia surrounding the the muscle fibers so they have more room to grow, it pushes water and nutrient into the muscle cell to expand them, studies have shown when a muscle is hydrated with water trapped in the cell, it increases protein synthesis.
I always lift fuking heavy for my first and second exercises (In the 3-5 reps range), on the 3rd and 4th i go for the pump but still with a relatively heavy weight. If you're enhanced chasing the pump more than super heavy weight is better for muscle growth, for a natural i find you must MUST powerlift and get very strong to cause significant hypertrophy.
My take on the pump, heavy weight thing is, both are important for muscle growth.
If you dont get stronger you will never get bigger, plain and simple, a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle, but a pump does have its place for a bodybuilder, Im not talking about grabbing the pink dumbells and doing 1000 bicep curls, Im talking a heavy weight at 6-10 reps and get a pump. The pump will stretch the fascia surrounding the the muscle fibers so they have more room to grow, it pushes water and nutrient into the muscle cell to expand them, studies have shown when a muscle is hydrated with water trapped in the cell, it increases protein synthesis.
I always lift fuking heavy for my first and second exercises (In the 3-5 reps range), on the 3rd and 4th i go for the pump but still with a relatively heavy weight. If you're enhanced chasing the pump more than super heavy weight is better for muscle growth, for a natural i find you must MUST powerlift and get very strong to cause significant hypertrophy.
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
You still have hair! Good!
I would say the pump has it's place in training. It feels good, and i'm sure it supports muscle in growth in some way shape or form(bringing in more nutrients/streching the fascia) but what will make you really grow is progressive overload. You body DOES know what the weight is(as long as you are not cheating with form) I like the pump as much as the next guy( i switched to bodybuilding rep range just like you, and i love the pump) but you need to focus less on "da pump"(because it is like cumming
) and more on upping your weights in a consistent fashion. I like you Matt so i don't want you to miss the forest for the trees. Keep focusing on pumping the shit out of the muscle, i'm sure it helps, but keep increase the weight/reps to force the muscle to adapt.
If you've ever heard of eugene sandow, he was a huge believer in the mind to muscle connection and probably the pump. The guy was a beast. you can also watch kai greene telling some kid how he only curls 20's but with such perfect fucking form that it kills him. The difference between us and these guys is Perfect genetics/drugs. (Eugene sandow was like the first real bodybuilder ever, Kai greene is shooting up insane amounts of whatever he can find in his cabinet ) again not saying the pump isn't important/doesn't work. I'm saying it's not the most important thing.
.E; Say you're curling 50 lbs dumbbells per arm for 6ish reps. Once that weight because easy enough to rep for 8-10 reps, you can choose to switch to a heavier weight and aim for 6 repetitions again, or you can keep curling 50's and aim for 12 reps. Once you hit that number, up the weight and start back down at 6 or 8 or whatever. Just keep increasing your workload and I PROMISE you will grow( as long you are eating and resting enough)
I would say the pump has it's place in training. It feels good, and i'm sure it supports muscle in growth in some way shape or form(bringing in more nutrients/streching the fascia) but what will make you really grow is progressive overload. You body DOES know what the weight is(as long as you are not cheating with form) I like the pump as much as the next guy( i switched to bodybuilding rep range just like you, and i love the pump) but you need to focus less on "da pump"(because it is like cumming
) and more on upping your weights in a consistent fashion. I like you Matt so i don't want you to miss the forest for the trees. Keep focusing on pumping the shit out of the muscle, i'm sure it helps, but keep increase the weight/reps to force the muscle to adapt.If you've ever heard of eugene sandow, he was a huge believer in the mind to muscle connection and probably the pump. The guy was a beast. you can also watch kai greene telling some kid how he only curls 20's but with such perfect fucking form that it kills him. The difference between us and these guys is Perfect genetics/drugs. (Eugene sandow was like the first real bodybuilder ever, Kai greene is shooting up insane amounts of whatever he can find in his cabinet
) again not saying the pump isn't important/doesn't work. I'm saying it's not the most important thing. .E; Say you're curling 50 lbs dumbbells per arm for 6ish reps. Once that weight because easy enough to rep for 8-10 reps, you can choose to switch to a heavier weight and aim for 6 repetitions again, or you can keep curling 50's and aim for 12 reps. Once you hit that number, up the weight and start back down at 6 or 8 or whatever. Just keep increasing your workload and I PROMISE you will grow( as long you are eating and resting enough)
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Matt0071
New member
I use to have the same issue with the wrist but finslly went away, to help aid with curls and such I bought some wrist straps, and worked wonders taking out any bend in the wrist doing curls
Or u can just use a tention band as well, what I used as well, now dont use nothing and doesnt bother me anymore, well not yet anyways lol
Or u can just use a tention band as well, what I used as well, now dont use nothing and doesnt bother me anymore, well not yet anyways lol
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profboy
New member
Dre, I completely get what you are saying and agree to a certain extent. Also, let me know if i misunderstood what you were trying to say.
If OP associates the "pump" with lactic acid production then yes it does contribute to muscle growth. Lactic Acid is directly proportional to level of growth hormone produced during exercise. I don't know the mechanism though, so I might be wrong here.
Next, muscles do not know how much weight you are lifting. They communicate in terms of tension and torque. If you can increase tension and torque in the working muscle without increasing the actual weight, the muscle will grow equally as well and minimize the chance of injury from uncontrolled heavy weight and improper movements. For example, there are two ways I can perform a bench press, both with perfect form.
1. I can just focus on trying to move the weight
2. I can focus on contracting my chest throughout the movement
option #1 - I can move a hell of a lot more weight because all I am trying to do is move the weight so my triceps and delts play a bigger role because I am not concentrating on using my chest. (great for strength training not so much hypertrophy) (this is still with perfect form remember)
Option #2 - I focus only on the muscle I am trying to work and consciously think about squeezing and contracting as hard as possible. In this case, my bench press drops a significant amount of weight but I have worked the target muscle much more effectively than option #1 because I have created more tension in the muscle. (great for hypertrophy)
If any of you guys are having problems contracting your chest throughout your movements it's a little difficult for me to explain over text so just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9UNwAjVf9M
Now, I am not saying there is a right and wrong way to do things. There is just a more optimal way. If my goal is muscular hypertrophy and I train the way a powerlifter does, of course i will see growth. But if I train in a controlled manner focusing on tension and not worrying about weight I will see much more muscular growth. (don't get me wrong you need enough weight -- you wont grow curling 5lbs in a controlled fashion)
Also, you are spot on with that the function of the bicep is to supinate the wrist and flex the shoulder. And when you say that the full ROM of a bicep curl involves some shoulder flexion/movement, that makes me think you are talking about a little swing of the arms when curling (correct me if im wrong) however, I do not think that's optimal. I think you can stimulate the bicep more if you use less weight and try to do exercises that work the bicep at it's most lengthened position (i.e. incline curls), the mid range of the movement (standing curls), and it's most shortened position (overhead cable curl) rather than trying to exhaust all 3 strength curves in one movement with heavy weight. I might not have made much sense so just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqCrNADRl6g
If OP associates the "pump" with lactic acid production then yes it does contribute to muscle growth. Lactic Acid is directly proportional to level of growth hormone produced during exercise. I don't know the mechanism though, so I might be wrong here.
Next, muscles do not know how much weight you are lifting. They communicate in terms of tension and torque. If you can increase tension and torque in the working muscle without increasing the actual weight, the muscle will grow equally as well and minimize the chance of injury from uncontrolled heavy weight and improper movements. For example, there are two ways I can perform a bench press, both with perfect form.
1. I can just focus on trying to move the weight
2. I can focus on contracting my chest throughout the movement
option #1 - I can move a hell of a lot more weight because all I am trying to do is move the weight so my triceps and delts play a bigger role because I am not concentrating on using my chest. (great for strength training not so much hypertrophy) (this is still with perfect form remember)
Option #2 - I focus only on the muscle I am trying to work and consciously think about squeezing and contracting as hard as possible. In this case, my bench press drops a significant amount of weight but I have worked the target muscle much more effectively than option #1 because I have created more tension in the muscle. (great for hypertrophy)
If any of you guys are having problems contracting your chest throughout your movements it's a little difficult for me to explain over text so just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9UNwAjVf9M
Now, I am not saying there is a right and wrong way to do things. There is just a more optimal way. If my goal is muscular hypertrophy and I train the way a powerlifter does, of course i will see growth. But if I train in a controlled manner focusing on tension and not worrying about weight I will see much more muscular growth. (don't get me wrong you need enough weight -- you wont grow curling 5lbs in a controlled fashion)
Also, you are spot on with that the function of the bicep is to supinate the wrist and flex the shoulder. And when you say that the full ROM of a bicep curl involves some shoulder flexion/movement, that makes me think you are talking about a little swing of the arms when curling (correct me if im wrong) however, I do not think that's optimal. I think you can stimulate the bicep more if you use less weight and try to do exercises that work the bicep at it's most lengthened position (i.e. incline curls), the mid range of the movement (standing curls), and it's most shortened position (overhead cable curl) rather than trying to exhaust all 3 strength curves in one movement with heavy weight. I might not have made much sense so just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqCrNADRl6g
blacktoppete
New member
Looking good. You going to update us at the 8wk mark?
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
People are putting too much credence on "pump", tension, and the brosciencesque logic. Progressive overload makes you grow. <-----Period. Pump is fine and might help, that crap won't make you grow though. When the weight you are curling gets to easy, what do you do? Increase the weight or the number of reps. THAT is what makes you grow. You can pump and pump and pump all you want, if you keep pumping out on 25's you are going to reach a plateau, you increase the weight to break that plateau am i correct in assuming that? or do you just focus so fucking hard on that pump that this workout's pump was stronger than the last and that forces the fascia to grow and now im making somuch grof whoremones dat im gunna get swol yo? It's not the goddamn pump that's making you grow, it's progressive overload. It's biology kids. not your bro's science.
profboy
New member
Back to the diet do you feel 380 grams of protein is excessive? I'm using your same macro ratios and I'm having trouble gaining weight even after a 250 calorie increase so now I upped it another 250. I just feel like 380 is a little much but I don't know any other good clean bulk ratio than 40:40:20
What happens when you cant lift any heavier?
Muscles need stimulus, they dont know how much weight you are lifting they only know stimulus.
If you can stress a muscle with a 45lb dumbell then it will grow, you dont have to risk injury humping 90s.
Why do bodybuilders have bigger muscles that power lifters/strongmen?
DreDay187
Beast666 FanClub Pres
And what blackBeard is saying is you can only provide so much stress with a 45lb dumbbell. Once you've reached that stage it stops being useful since you need to progress ie use more weight or more reps. The weight you lift IS the stimulus. You're not going to hurt yourself doing 90s if you've adapted to it, that's a silly example.
Body builders aren't always bigger than strongmen/pL. But it's also due to the excessive use of AAS and working in a rep range on certain lifts that's more suitable for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy over myofibrillar.
Going up in weight isn't the be all and end all though, you can do drop sets/giant sets.
You can rep to failure with a weight, rest five seconds then go again, rest then go again.
Slow reps constant tension during a set.
The list is endless.
You can do that type of training forever, you can only go up in weight so far.
I agree that you do need to use a weight for a set number of reps to stimulate real growth.
Some olympic lifters have hardly any muscle mass at all and are shifting huge poundages.
Strength doesn't always equal big muscles and big muscles doesn't always equal strength.
You can rep to failure with a weight, rest five seconds then go again, rest then go again.
Slow reps constant tension during a set.
The list is endless.
You can do that type of training forever, you can only go up in weight so far.
I agree that you do need to use a weight for a set number of reps to stimulate real growth.
Some olympic lifters have hardly any muscle mass at all and are shifting huge poundages.
Strength doesn't always equal big muscles and big muscles doesn't always equal strength.
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
Like dre said, they use more drugs and work in a rep range that is more conducive to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy(i wonder if you even know what that is) It's pretty simple. You can work any which way though, as long as the progressive overload is present. There are even bodybuilders that prefer lower rep ranges similar to powerlifters. They still get huge. It's all about preference. Must suck trying to get a pump in the lower reps ranges though. I wonder how they get so jacked without it. Must be a secret.
Btw drop sets/slow reps/etc is one way to add more volume/stimulus to your workout(progressive overload) so you continue to prove my point for me. Thanks man
p.s. I feel 380 grams of protein is excessive. Your kidneys will be bleeding/crying, but it really depends on your weight. If you are heavy enough, 380 grams can be your intake.
Btw drop sets/slow reps/etc is one way to add more volume/stimulus to your workout(progressive overload) so you continue to prove my point for me. Thanks man
p.s. I feel 380 grams of protein is excessive. Your kidneys will be bleeding/crying, but it really depends on your weight. If you are heavy enough, 380 grams can be your intake.
The point being proved is its intensity rather than just heavy weights.
If you can keep the intensity up you dont have to keep pushing heavier weights.
I train now with moderate poundages and higher rep ranges.
I couldn't really give you a specific workout because its NEVER the same.
Its better to stress the muscle with a weight within your capability than trying to push heavier and tearing a muscle or tendon.
Its better to train with moderate weights all year than heavy for 9months and have 3 months off injured.
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
That's fine boyo. As long as you are increasing something, even the intensity, you will force the muscle to adapt. You will say anything to get some kind of argument or debate started won't you?
Im not after an argument, Im just pointing out its not all about lifting big weights, in fact big weights are the main reason so many people don't improve or fuck themselves up.
