evryone agree this is a good workout plan for mass

[jcp2]

John is an absolute freak...

So he does a work set (post warm-up) of 12 reps for 2wks, then up's the weight for 10reps for 2, etc...? Correct? Thanks for the link... I've found some great stuff at IA's board so far.

I am almost positive that is how he does it, as we do pretty much the same thing. It may be a little different from time to time but that is the bulk of it. You can check his workouts at deepsquatter.com on the freakforum.

 

[Blown_SC]

I am almost positive that is how he does it, as we do pretty much the same thing. It may be a little different from time to time but that is the bulk of it. You can check his workouts at deepsquatter.com on the freakforum.

Ok, thanks bud, will do.

 

[blackbeard]

Just making a point

i was agreeing with you
meant to quote powerbuilder..
seems like doing that sort of cycle for those who squat raw might be a great plan..start with the 12's and work down to 5 and each cycle try to get those weights up..i would imagine that would build some nice quads

 

[PowerBuilder]

hahahhaa
you really cannot "isolate" fibers-but a mix of low and high rep work is a good idea

it takes an extremely advanced athelte/lifter to do that
take a top WPO lifter such as Bernor when he hits a 5RM or a 1RM he is recruiting WAY more fibers than your average gym guy hitting his 5 or 1RM and it has nothing to do with the amount of weight


i was agreeing with you
meant to quote powerbuilder..
seems like doing that sort of cycle for those who squat raw might be a great plan..start with the 12's and work down to 5 and each cycle try to get those weights up..i would imagine that would build some nice quads

Well, if you meant to quote me you failed to do so. I never said anything about "isolating" fibers. Sets of higher reps will burn more ATP, and produce more lactic acid in slow twitch fibers than a set of lower reps will. The effect of this is that you can increase the size of your muscles by increasing the size of more of your slow twitch cells, or more of your fast twitch cells. And this has nothing to do with the percent of your fibers you are activating. It has to do with what types of fibers that are doing the majority of the work in a given set. If you don't agree with this, then WHY would you advocate a mix of low and high reps?

 

[blackbeard]

Well, if you meant to quote me you failed to do so. I never said anything about "isolating" fibers. Sets of higher reps will burn more ATP, and produce more lactic acid in slow twitch fibers than a set of lower reps will. The effect of this is that you can increase the size of your muscles by increasing the size of more of your slow twitch cells, or more of your fast twitch cells. And this has nothing to do with the percent of your fibers you are activating. It has to do with what types of fibers that are doing the majority of the work in a given set. If you don't agree with this, then WHY would you advocate a mix of low and high reps?

thats my point low reps DO NOT necessarily activate the different fibers in te way you described..a lot of that is just theory and persoanlly id rather worry about what i have to do to get my total to 2K then worry if im using more of this fiber or that fiber
and dont get snotty with me you want to disagree with me thats fine

why do i advocate mixing up reps because Louie does lol

 

[pullinbig]

Well, if you meant to quote me you failed to do so. I never said anything about "isolating" fibers. Sets of higher reps will burn more ATP, and produce more lactic acid in slow twitch fibers than a set of lower reps will. The effect of this is that you can increase the size of your muscles by increasing the size of more of your slow twitch cells, or more of your fast twitch cells. And this has nothing to do with the percent of your fibers you are activating. It has to do with what types of fibers that are doing the majority of the work in a given set. If you don't agree with this, then WHY would you advocate a mix of low and high reps?

you overcomplicating something that is very simple. lifting heavy weight builds muscle no questions asked. build your strength up and you will grow. this stuff aint rocket science, its weight lifting. quit reading those boring ass studies and hit the gym.

 

[NPC]

Pullinbig,

This isn't the way toptrainer Scott abel sees it,he says that there is a poor relationship between strength and muscle size otherwise all powerlifters would be bigger then every bodybuilder and thats not the case he tells.
If you go to his website you can read the articles about it aswell as joining the forum.

 

[iron addict]

Pullinbig,

This isn't the way toptrainer Scott abel sees it,he says that there is a poor relationship between strength and muscle size otherwise all powerlifters would be bigger then every bodybuilder and thats not the case he tells.
If you go to his website you can read the articles about it aswell as joining the forum.

Great, lets all lift to get smaller and weaker, strength has little to do with size, after all all the great BB'ers only bench 225 and squat 315. WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT. YOU are the one that is confused here. You are comparing pro BB'ers with AWESOME genetics doing TONS of grwoth drugs to average lifters.

Until you are benching AT LEAST 315 for reps and squatting and pulling 450-500 you will forever remain small. You can do your volume "hit the muscle from all anges and pump for growth" all you want. You will still be small.

Trying to do pure hypertrophy work without a solid strength base in place is plain retarded, but yet, it is how most lifters go about it. Until you are strong you damn sure better be training for strength. And if you think PL'ers are small, you have never been to a meet.

IA

 

[GymLift]

And if you think PL'ers are small, you have never been to a meet.

LOL.

 

[Blown_SC]

Great, lets all lift to get smaller and weaker, strength has little to do with size, after all all the great BB'ers only bench 225 and squat 315. WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT. YOU are the one that is confused here. You are comparing pro BB'ers with AWESOME genetics doing TONS of grwoth drugs to average lifters.

Until you are benching AT LEAST 315 for reps and squatting and pulling 450-500 you will forever remain small. You can do your volume "hit the muscle from all anges and pump for growth" all you want. You will still be small.

Trying to do pure hypertrophy work without a solid strength base in place is plain retarded, but yet, it is how most lifters go about it. Until you are strong you damn sure better be training for strength. And if you think PL'ers are small, you have never been to a meet.

IA

Nice post. I realized that a little late so I'm playing catch-up... good advice...

 

[PowerBuilder]

Alright then. I hadn't realized that this theory was doubted by anyone. I first read about it in a book by Fred Hatfield and have seen it in numerous other articles since stated as if it were pure truth. Sorry if I am interested in the biology of muscle growth. If there weren't scientists interested in it then powerlifting/bodybuilding would be nowhere near where they are today.

 

[blackbeard]

Alright then. I hadn't realized that this theory was doubted by anyone. I first read about it in a book by Fred Hatfield and have seen it in numerous other articles since stated as if it were pure truth. Sorry if I am interested in the biology of muscle growth. If there weren't scientists interested in it then powerlifting/bodybuilding would be nowhere near where they are today.

for the most part Louie Simons is intersted in all that stuff..say what you will about WSB i think it is very scientific and based on all variables..

and no i DO NOT think WSB is the only way to train
ED Coan didnt use WSB=pretty effen strong boy if you ask me

 

[Tafman]

throw some leg presses in there

 

[NPC]

Great, lets all lift to get smaller and weaker, strength has little to do with size, after all all the great BB'ers only bench 225 and squat 315. WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT. YOU are the one that is confused here. You are comparing pro BB'ers with AWESOME genetics doing TONS of grwoth drugs to average lifters.

Until you are benching AT LEAST 315 for reps and squatting and pulling 450-500 you will forever remain small. You can do your volume "hit the muscle from all anges and pump for growth" all you want. You will still be small.

Trying to do pure hypertrophy work without a solid strength base in place is plain retarded, but yet, it is how most lifters go about it. Until you are strong you damn sure better be training for strength. And if you think PL'ers are small, you have never been to a meet.

IA

So...what do you mean by Average lifter?
Are you saying that there aren't Average lifters doing tons of juice?
After all you could say the same thing about Pullinbig,cause he's doing tons of juice aswell.

NPC

 

[iron addict]

Are you benching 300-350 and squatting/deadlifting 450-500? If not, all the 'size" work is irrelivant.

IA

 

[blackbeard]

So...what do you mean by Average lifter?
Are you saying that there aren't Average lifters doing tons of juice?
After all you could say the same thing about Pullinbig,cause he's doing tons of juice aswell.

NPC

i think you are missing IA's point..this really isnt about "juice" or how much of anything a memeber is using..

ask yourself this: the numbers IA listed 315 bench and a 4-500 squat/dead
how many people in the gym who are natural do you see posting those numbers..

i am not talking about knee jerking squats with 500 for 5 or doing imaginary board presses with 315..im talking all clean lifts with no assistance because leme tell you way to many people get help from the spotter and the spotter says its all you lol..i spotted a young kid once who was working with a trainer and this trainer said he got 275 "all him" so he was gonna go and try it again te following week well im spotting him and he missed 235-actually it crushed him now how do you lose 40lbs on ur bench in a week and be natural????

my point if a trainee would work to achieve those numbers (not going to happen in 2 months it takes time) they will develop a fairly decent physique provided diet is in order..also there is nothing wrong with adding hypertrophy work in there but you just odnt need 15 sets each of bis/tris/delts

 

[jcp2]

So...what do you mean by Average lifter?
Are you saying that there aren't Average lifters doing tons of juice?
After all you could say the same thing about Pullinbig,cause he's doing tons of juice aswell.

NPC

Once again you are proving the point that people should not listen to pros and those that are genetically gifted. And advanced bodybuilder should not be doing the same routine as a 20 year old kid trying to get bigger and stronger. In the beginning to intermediate stages thier is a huge correlation to strenght and size, but you are going to plateau at some point ( most likely many year) and then training for hypertrophy is probably going to be a good idea, especially if bodybuiding is your thing. If you think a flex mag workout works for the unadvanced natural guy, just walk into a gym, you will see 90% of people training that way and you will see them using the same weight and be the same size 12 months from now. You are comeing with the "he said" where everyone else is bringing the "ive done" and "ive seen".