Excess Protien Intake Does not build more muscle ??

[ZEONATION]

Hi

How are you all

i've seen that most of the diets here or diet advices in the forum tell that you should eat about 300gm of protien for about 180 LBS guy

See guys , i've been eating a diet which contain excess protien for about 2 months

And i've never noticed a difference from my older gains which was with a diet that contains ideal amount of protien per kg

Then i went to the internet
searched a lot and found a lot of researches and pages in the internet , i mean A LOOOT !!
telling that many researches have been done from 1992 until this day all of them proves these 2 things
1- More protien >> Excess nitrogen >> Excess kidney washout of nitrogen >> Nitrogen couples with water >> Overdrive of kidney + Dehydration
2- More protien Can transform into fat just fine and 90% of the internet and pages say so

Plus one of my dearest friends he have been working out for about 5 or 6 years now , he was working in ice factory and he was carrying ice bags half of the day and also working out 5 days a week

he never uses steroid and his body is amazing , plus he only eat 6 times a day small meals of protien like 20g per meal so 20x6 and he wieghts about 62 KG with lean mass of 54 and he is like 156 tall

so he eats like double of his wieght.

other thing that i notice people who are in the prison do not eat much protien and carbs every day but what iam sure about is that they don't eat fat too much , and they still have good shape


And what i notice also is that genetic is important very important factor and steroids also as i have many friends who workout eat the same workout together , but guess what , one of them can gain more than the other.

I mean guys do you really researched the internet before or thought about eating excess protien which can reach to 3x the required amount (Based on scientific researches and facts)

I think its a good subject to discuss

I am waiting for your replies , and i hope it will be friendly discussion

 

[ZEONATION]

Another thing i want to add
before 2 months i was eating the ideal requirement for my body with little bit of surplus but i was eating dirty
i've noticed that my gains was like
Lean Mass ++
Fat +++
then i used diet with excess protien and cutted most of the fat to optimal level
My gains was like
Lean Mass ++
Fat ++

So the difference only was fat gain for me little bit of change
and maybe that was because i stopped eating dirty food and cutted out surplus fat from my meals

 

[frank.tb]

Another thing i want to add
before 2 months i was eating the ideal requirement for my body with little bit of surplus but i was eating dirty
i've noticed that my gains was like
Lean Mass ++
Fat +++
then i used diet with excess protien and cutted most of the fat to optimal level
My gains was like
Lean Mass ++
Fat ++

So the difference only was fat gain for me little bit of change
and maybe that was because i stopped eating dirty food and cutted out surplus fat from my meals

That's what works.for YOU though.brother...
Everyone is different. That's why.there is no perfect universal.diet...a true working diet must.be.customized to you and your genetic needs

 

[ZEONATION]

Thank frank for passing by
glad to have you here

 

[frank.tb]

Thank frank for passing by
glad to have you here

Sarcasm or genuine? Idk as I.have never posted or had a convo with you lol

 

[ZEONATION]

No genuine why would i have to be sarcastic ?
I mean for real this is a discussion so any opinion is considered important

 

[frank.tb]

No genuine why would i have to be sarcastic ?
I mean for real this is a discussion so any opinion is considered important

Haha just checkin...lot of little trolls in here lately...
But your welcome

 

[Gearedup26]

Very true frank everyone is different when someone asks me how did I get big I always say I ate a lot and often, but what works for me doesn't work for everyone. A lot of guys want a simple answer and the truth is nobody is the same everyone responds diffrently to certain macros some are carb sensative others aren' it's all about what you see in the mirror.

 

[ZEONATION]

This is just an amazing article i've found now
mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

 

[DreDay187]

Dude I don't think you have a firm grasp on nutrition yet, no offense to you but your points and research performed are flawed.

1) yes more protein does not always equal more muscle bc muscle building is dependent on many factors not just protein and when your minimum protein needs are met (around 1g/LB of body weight) there is a point of diminishing returns. For a natural trainee, anywhere from 1-1.3,1.4 grams/LB body weight is all that's needed and then some to build muscle.

2) protein can lead to dehydration, IF IN EXCESS, but that simply means you're not taking in enough fluids. It doesn't mean you're takig too much protein necessarily. My recommendations, and those of Lyle Mcdonald and Mark Rippetoe, are to drink at the bare minimum 1Liter water per 1000calories burned which means if your TDEE is 4000cories you drink 4Liters water. The other and probably better recommendation as a general statement, is drink enough water to get 5 CLEAR urinations a per day with 2 or more of them coming post workout.

3) kidney problems will only manifest if you have preexisting issues with your kidneys. Protein will work your kidneys more but if you're a healthy adult, this isn't a problem and your body adapts. Studies have shown even 2+g/lb body weight in protein intake won't negatively impact health or kidney function in healthy adults.

4) there is almost no possible way for protein to be converts to fat. The pathways for that probably do exist but for it to happen you would need very very very specific circumstances and intake of over 80% of your calories to be from protein. It's just not something to worry about PERIOD.

5) your prison example sucks point blank. Thy need even less macros and calories than we do bc they sit in a cell all day. We have lives to lead and are active ppl so we naturally need more protein and carbs. This is a red herring fallacy.

6) your example of friends also sucks. Nutrition is an individualistic thing. The needs of one friend are vastly different from the needs of the other. Bigger people need more nutrients to bulk and smaller people need less GENERALLY. No two people can copy each other and get the same results, nutritional needs will vary as well as genetical differences.

7) yes I have done my research and I understand the needs of a an individual who trains and how that differs from others. This whole post was a strawman argument and a red herring.

I suggest you research the topic a bit more and stop using or relavent real world examples that don't apply to the Situation. I'm sorry if this comes across as rude, I really don't mean to be, but it just screams fear mongering of protein when it's not deserved. The 80s and 90s people feared dietary fats even though they're necessary, essential, and beneficial. The 2000s ppl were scared to death of carbs and Atkins diets, zone diets, south beach etc came out. Everything was low carb this low carb that when its not the carbs making ppl fat. Now it seems like in 2010 and beyond, ppl will be scared of protein: oh my God my kidneys will stop working and i'llget kidney stones etc. this is false and not true in normal healthy people. Again no disrespect intended to you, but there was a lot wrong in your post.

 

[3J]

there is a point where your body will have a "spill over" of protein.. as in your taking in more then you need.. but i would personally rather take in a little more then i need then a little less..

great post dre... you nailed most of it.. except there is a pathway for protein to become fat.. too much excess protein and it converts to glucose.. but again.. it would have to be alot.. 50-80 percent as stated.... so i still think you were on point

 

[Gearedup26]

When I was younger and inexperienced playing college football all we heard was eat more protein drink more shakes I did and I gained a lot of mass but when I went for a doc appt I have him a piss test and he told me I had way to much protein in my urine this is an example I te spill over he wanted to put me on meds to control it I told him it was prob because I was consuming about 500g of protein a day lol

 

[ikhann]

500 gm/day is a crazy amount. Too much protein will mess your kidneys up.

 

[Gearedup26]

That's exactly what the doc said told me i would fuck up my kidneys. I was young and dumb lesson learned, but alot of kids ou here these days have the same idea that you need tons I protein to build muscle which isn't always the case everyone is different

 

[DrHouse]

I'm actually glad that this topic was brought up. I just spoke with a gentleman in the nutrition store I work at and he is a very well built individual and he informed me he only consumed roughly 200-250g of protein per day and my guess is he is roughly 180lbs. Where I consume 300g per day usually and I'm just 190ish. He could be using a completely different supplement agenda than I but it doesn't change the fact that individuals are different.

Dre, great comments even though I thought "dang this dude is ripping the op a new one." haha but at the end you reassured me you're a gentlemen.

As far as my thought towards kidney failure, you have two of them and the average person probably only uses a small percent of the capacity an individual kidney could support. I'm no doctor and I'm educated in engineering so I'm not a reputable source of information but I have found through experience that typically what is preached (low fat diets, artificial sweeteners cause cancer, gear kills, etc.) is not the most accurate teachings.

The reason for my reply is to simply give a little opinion and what has worked for me.

Moderately low carb, high protein and what I think is moderate fats (100g a day or so). I like it and until I find something better that's what I will stick with! Everyone who is new to training should learn a few things early on:

1) The number on that scale is simply a number. If it is used, it should be used along with visuals to determine what you're losing or gaining. No sense of gaining a bunch of fat and no muscle.
2) Just because Ronnie Coleman supposedly ate 500g of protein a day, 1900 carbs and 70g of fat (something I read at some point), doesn't mean that will work for you. Experiment with a beginners guide and go from there.
3) Like 2), training should be experimented. Some people like one body part a day, some people like complete body workouts(which I think is silly). In my opinion, someone may need to work their arms 5 days a week to make them grow and others may only need once a week (example) but that depends on you.

Like everyone, I'm still learning and I appreciate all of the input of everyone whether I utilize it or not!

 

[ZEONATION]

Thanks guys for passing by i really appreciate it and i like how 3J placed his comment and how he open minded

I really enjoy reading what you all wrote
Will we are learning guys i am currently studying to be a doctor and this year will be my last year
But being a doctor doesn't mean i have that experience in nutrition , but i read too much
Also as am a medical student i am pretty used to read many researches and do a lot of search in google and research engines
I don't care who is giving the words if he was engineer or teacher or even uneducated
But what i care the most is the knowledge and the experience he gives and that's what makes me happy when i see you all reply's
Well what i found is that surely if you eat too much protien you will be no ronnie for sure
and 0.87g/LB of protein is very safe amount and a lot of protein already
But in the same hand I figured that what 3J said about transformation about protein to fat is true , but i will do more research about it just for the sake of confirming that thing in my mind

i found that when protein is excess its either go into urine , and if it turns into fat it turns with caloric surplus usually

I would prefer increase in protein as what kind of fuel it is not for gaining more muscle
If you talk about protein , carbs , fat
you will see that the easiest things which turn into fats are fats itself and carbs
and the body is sensitive to there excess more than protein
For me the best reason that i take more than 0.87g/LB now is that the protein is the hardest component to turn into fat , and its the highest quality component regarding muscle growth.

If you aim specially for ripping you need sometimes low carbs + low fat and high protein diet.
Because you are hitting two birds with one stone , you are cutting fat and carbs , and the to reach a good caloric intake you add the rest as protein

I tried this diet for 3 weeks now , and i've been very strict about it , and guess what until now i lost 5 kilos without the use of any supplements except iso-100

My diet is like 43g Fat , 127 Carbs , 229g Protein

and what i added more protein for is not for gaining more muscle , its just to get to the healthy amount of calories for me .

Thanks to you all you have my respect 'till the end

 

[ZEONATION]

Another info i would like to add is that when protein is transforming into fat only 2 amino acids do transform which are leucine and lysine

and you have like 19 amino acids which makes the protien

so if you eat excess protein some of the excess will go in urine as nitrogen and some of it will turn into fat but what will turn is only lysine and leucine

so it will be like if you have a chain of protien of 100% that is excess only like 15 % will go into fat and that's very small amount really

 

[ZEONATION]

DreDay187

5) your prison example sucks point blank. Thy need even less macros and calories than we do bc they sit in a cell all day. We have lives to lead and are active ppl so we naturally need more protein and carbs. This is a red herring fallacy.

Thanks for your comment , for sure using examples like these are not of scientific base but for the first example you can't say that they need less calories for muscle growth , because a surplus for muscle growth is a surplus in your recommended intake no doubt about it even if you are sitting around doing nothing you should eat a surplus to grow , and days activities doesn't burn as much calories as you think running for 6 miles speed for 30 minutes can only make you burn from 250 to 300 calories
walking for an hour can make you lose 200 to 300 calories

so don't tell me if you are active that means you burn your muscle tissue.

what i meant by that example was not less caloric intake will make you gain muscle , what i meant is that less protein intake can make a difference , that was only for clarification purposes , not as evidence.

yes more protein does not always equal more muscle bc muscle building is dependent on many factors not just protein and when your minimum protein needs are met (around 1g/LB of body weight) there is a point of diminishing returns. For a natural trainee, anywhere from 1-1.3,1.4 grams/LB body weight is all that's needed and then some to build muscle.

You can read the article that i put about the minimum protein intake for muscle growth and maintenance , unless if you don't believe in researches and science do not bother yourself doing it and keep your ideas as it is.

what i really expected from you is when you say i eat 1g/lb per day or 1.4g/lb is that you say why you do that ? because you think its the minimum and safe amount ? researches proves otherwise which is 0.87g/lb or 0.83 i don't remember really but you can look into the article

6) your example of friends also sucks. Nutrition is an individualistic thing. The needs of one friend are vastly different from the needs of the other. Bigger people need more nutrients to bulk and smaller people need less GENERALLY. No two people can copy each other and get the same results, nutritional needs will vary as well as genetical differences.

Again my dear friend , my second example is to elaborate that many factors involve in muscle growth which is genes and lifestyle -_- not only diet , but you didn't get to my point again.


And thank you for passing by i learned a lot from you

 

[ZEONATION]

Gearedup26

500g a day that's a dam too much protien per day

and it's beyond reasoning

and i am thankful that you shared your story it's intresting , very intresting
Thank you

 

[mrricco2012]

I cant think of the word, but I think this plays more of a role. The amount of protein absorbed or something along those lines? For instance Eggs and Whey was the highest on the list of how much protein you truely intake from this. Compared to per say Beans which was in the 55-65% total consumed protein. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I guess you can say if you intook 300 grams of protein from beans, and only 150 grams of protein from Eggs it'd be the same even though its lower amount of protein. This might be all bullshit, like I said someone correct me. I remember reading this months ago.