First time cutting, diet critique/suggestions wanted!

[STAUNCHED427]

Alright so I have never cut before and want to give it a shot as I am probably sitting around 17-18% bodyfat and want to really cut down and get these abs showing before I jump into a bulk for obvious reasons. I am on a TRT/Cruise dose of 225mg per week (my doctor is fine with me sitting at just over the top of the range) and was considering throwing in some Anavar @ 50mg day as it shouldn't affect me dialling in my E2 and would really help the cut in terms of preventing catabolism - obviously I am aware and was not expecting any muscle gain here, as long as I can minimise muscle catabolism and drop some bodyfat I will be pleased. I am a little worried about the carb/fat intake, whether I should lower fat a little bit and bump carbs up? The only carbs I listen have are breakfast, pre workout and post workout. Keep in mind I will be commencing this diet tomorrow so I am yet to try this.

I will probably go with 3J when funds permit it however. I like to try and work out things for myself, but please, let me know if you have any constructive input on this as I am a little nervous about this cut hence the reasoning for wanting to throw in some anavar.

My maintenance is at 3000cal so I have adjusted my diet around and got it at 2500 calories total.

2500cal (500cal below Maintenance) 45Pro/25Carb/30Fat
1240cal Protein (310g) / 580cal Carb (145g) 720cal Fat (80g)

Training sessions will now be quick intense 45 minutes at the most. Fasted cardio sessions 3-5x a week, low intensity steady state for 30 mins with a few HIIT sessions done fasted to keep things interesting.

Snack on nuts/fibrous greens/bran, in between meals when hungry, drink lots of water.

Supplements are Creatine HCl 750mcg, Citrulline 5G Pre-Workout, Caffeine (from coffee) with Meal 1, will be adding Taurine.

Meal 1: Pro/Carb 8:30am
8 Egg Whites, .5 cup Rolled Oats (45g)
35g Pro, 30g Carbs, 0 fat

Meal 2: Pro/Fat 10:30am
150g Chicken Breast (Cooked), Half Avocado
45g Protein, 15g Fat, 0 Carbs

Meal 3: Pro/Carb 12:30pm
150g Chicken Breast (Cooked), Steamed Broccoli Pieces
45g Protein, 10g Fat, 0 Carb

Meal 4: Pro/Carb 3:30pm (PRE WORKOUT MEAL)
120G Rolled Oats, 1 Small Can Tuna
20g Pro, 70g Carb, 5g Fat

Workout (4:30pm to 5:30pm)

Meal 5: PWO Pro only 5:30pm
2 Scoops Whey Protein Blend
50g Protein, 5g fat

Meal 6: PPWO Pro/Carb/Fat 6:30pm
150Gg Lean Steak (Weighed uncooked), 200g Brown Rice (Cooked), Broccoli Pieces
45g Protein, 45g carbs, 20g Fat

Meal 8: Pro/Fat (Before Bed) 9:30pm
2 Scoops of Whey Protein Blend in 200g Greek Yoghurt
60g Protein, 25g Fat

Let me know what you think, any input on changes that I can make that will make this cut run more smoothly will be great!

Cheers,
STAUNCHED.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Looks good to me bud. Can always drop the calories even more for a faster cut which i was im currently doing. I want the cut over n done with as fast as possible tho lol coz i hate it and wanna get back to bulking. Personally i cut out all the carbs except for around 30-40ish as pre workout for a bit of energy. But thats a severe deficit.

Otherwise food choices look good. The only thing i'd be wary of is snacking on nuts as they can be pretty high calorie and also can contain extra carbs.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I'm not really keen on going below -500 maintenance calories unless I was going to run the anavar alongside it. I really don't think the anavar is necessary at all, it will help sure, but I can easily do it with my diet hence posting it up here to get some input on it. 300g of protein should be more than enough?

Also, I'm not sure if this is placebo or if others experience this, but caffeine (consumed via coffee), has anyone noticed is acts like a mild appetite suppressant? Usually caffeine does not agree with me as it feels a bit dirty and kills my appetite a little I'm willing to throw it in with my morning cardio (straight coffee, hot water no sugar) if it may help me.

Any other alternatives to snacks? I plan on keeping a tub of mixed nuts, (almonds, cashews, pumpkin seeds, peanuts) just to nibble on when the hunger gets bad...

 

[PrinceDianabol]

What do you weigh? Yeah 300g pro should be more than enough unless your massive.
Im taking in 260g and I started off at 97kg / 213lbs at 15-16ish% bf... Two weeks later im 94.9kg / 209lbs maybe 14-15% now. Im in a big deficit tho. 99% sure havent lost any lean mass.

Could be placebo, doesn't happen for me... Caffeine definetly provides me with energy though. Could be different for you towards appetite.

I use green veggies for snacks... Mainly cucumber or celery... If you dont mind a bit of extra sodium, chop up some greens throw them in a ziplock bag with some salt and shake it around. Awesome snack. Plus you may need the extra fibre so your shits aren't terrible. I know i need it haha. My other favourite snack is a whole tomatoe... Eat it like an apple, fills me up pretty good. All these veggies don't really count towards calorie intake at all and they will fill you up.

If you like the nuts keep em, but just be mindful they are providing more calories. Re-assess in two weeks if your fat loss is fast enough for you.

Main thing is to enjoy your diet whilst being in a deficit, otherwise it takes a toll on your mood and makes it hard to stick to

 

[PrinceDianabol]

1 Avocado = 25g Fat (180gm size)
1 cup Oats = 60g Carb
1 cup Brown Rice (Cooked) = 45g Carb
1 Egg White = 4g Protein
1 Scoop WP Blend = 25g Protein
100g PButter = 50g Fat
1tbsp pb = 10g Fat
1tbsp Olive Oil = 13g Fat
100g Greek Yoghurt = 4g Fat/3g Pro

Also just looking at the stats on your food... The peanut butter will almost certainly have some carbs and pro in it aswell. And not sure what oats your eating, mine are uncle tobys oats and they pull 100g carbs for 1 cup.. Also about 16g pro aswell.

Just hoping you havent forgotten about those extra cals? If you have... All that extra pro you've forgotten about PLUS the nuts as snacks (depending how much of them you eat) could ruin your defict man. Nuts have a lot of EFA content and im sure you know that carries alot of cals.. Then they also have carb and pro in them.


If you have a smartphone download an app to keep track of your caloric intake. Makes things much easier you can record everything you eat and then you have a record of how you've been doing etc.

Also i might aswell add.. I love coffee... I make mine with natural sweeter and almond milk. Equates to about pro/carb/fat 0.5/1/0.5g... So basically nothing and still get the energy and health benefits of natural caffeine

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I currently weigh 88kg first thing in the morning but like said have got a bit of an edge being on such a high TRT dose/replacement dose (puts me around ~1500ng/dl by calculated estimations from previous bloods, which will be confirmed soon but anyway). At a guess maybe 78-80kg and I will be happy, but I am going by the mirror when I decide to end the cut, the scale I am merely using as a guide to see that I am dropping slowly. I'm not afraid of getting smaller, I was, but not anymore. Cutting comes part of the territory and I got into my head that yeah, you might be a little smaller but you may look a little bigger as the muscle is more defined and just shit like t-shirts not feeling as tight, but hey it needed to be done and I'm going to love it whether it like it or not lol.

I'm not in a major rush to cut the fat as quickly as I can if it means loosing more mass than what it's worth, but at the same time I don't really want to take my time, again why I was considering throwing in some anavar after 2 weeks and run it for 6 or so weeks with a slightly bigger deficit.

I will give caffeine a shot tomorrow morning after my morning cardio fasted although usually fasted AM cardio wakes me up and kills my appetite a bit too. I'll keep this thread open on my cut and MAY consider posting up pictures for a short time of where I started to where I ended up.

Allright I'll have to take that on board, and probably snack a combo of greens and nuts and maybe some bran mixed in (don't mind it raw) if I can't get greens (say I'm out of the house). The extra fibre definitely can't hurt lol.

Yeah I'm honestly looking forward to this cut and where I will end up with it. I have always been considered lean by others when looked at in a t-shirt or singlet because my arms have a bit of vascularity to them with minimal fat (store a lot of fat over my abs and have never seen them so looking forward to it and see what muscle is really hidden under here). Also I doubt it, but if it helps keep my e2 in control a bit more and can get rid of some of this chest fat along with my current gyno reversal I'll be happy. Worst case scenario, I expect this cut to be 8 weeks or so, I would have been on the ralox for 10 weeks by then and if the gyno seems to have not reduced in the slightest I may just consider going all out and get the whole gland removed properly so I don't have to ever bother with it again. Gyno is a real pain in the fucking ass, so this is pushing me to cut even more.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

1 Avocado = 25g Fat (180gm size)
1 cup Oats = 60g Carb
1 cup Brown Rice (Cooked) = 45g Carb
1 Egg White = 4g Protein
1 Scoop WP Blend = 25g Protein
100g PButter = 50g Fat
1tbsp pb = 10g Fat
1tbsp Olive Oil = 13g Fat
100g Greek Yoghurt = 4g Fat/3g Pro

Also just looking at the stats on your food... The peanut butter will almost certainly have some carbs and pro in it aswell. And not sure what oats your eating, mine are uncle tobys oats and they pull 100g carbs for 1 cup.. Also about 16g pro aswell.

Just hoping you havent forgotten about those extra cals? If you have... All that extra pro you've forgotten about PLUS the nuts as snacks (depending how much of them you eat) could ruin your defict man. Nuts have a lot of EFA content and im sure you know that carries alot of cals.. Then they also have carb and pro in them.


If you have a smartphone download an app to keep track of your caloric intake. Makes things much easier you can record everything you eat and then you have a record of how you've been doing etc.

Also i might aswell add.. I love coffee... I make mine with natural sweeter and almond milk. Equates to about pro/carb/fat 0.5/1/0.5g... So basically nothing and still get the energy and health benefits of natural caffeine

Posted my previous post right before this post came through.

I think I will see if I can find an app where I can keep track of my macros though, could help very much.

Things like the oats I really only counted in as solely a carb source. I assumed protein sources should only be counted from primary sources and that the protein found in your foods in things liek oats are more complimentary to total protein, even if I sit at 300cal worst case scenario it is still a deficit, plus I didn't count on fasted morning cardio into the equation so even if I really happened to be sitting on maintenance I could really be below with the fasted cardio+6 days a week with the iron.

Also, I've read and been told that say once a week, which would be sunday that you should use it as a day to include a cheat meal for both to have a little break and reward from cutting but also to trick your body out of trying to adjust to homeostasis? Would it make sense to be doing say just above maintenance on a sunday?

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Yeah an app definetly helps bro. Been the biggest godsend for me.

Realistically i think you should be counting everything - if its providing calories, record it.. That way you actually know how much of a deficit your in each day and can learn/judge your body better. That includes your nuts snacks. You are right though, should be fine with all that extra cardio. I just like to have all my bases covered.

Yeah, you can throw in a cheat meal once a week. Make it a higherc carb low fat meal if possible. Try not to go too much over maintenance. I think it would be better however if you did structured refeed days instead. Thats what I do. Every 12 days throw in one day of high carb 1.5-2gs per lb bodyweight, keep pro the same and lower fats (around 50-60g.) dont worry too muhh about total caloric intake; just dont go crazy. A couple hundred cals above maintenance should be fine.

Up to you if you wanna do that or a cheat meal once a week.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Overall, your macros and food choices look pretty good dude but I'm going to make a few points to take into consideration:

Firstly, Test alone is more than enough to prevent any significant muscle loss; I personally don't feel the need to add the anavar but this is up to you. Muscle loss is really only an issue for those who are carrying alot more muscle than their frame can naturally handle (IFFB pros).

I realise your nervous about your first serious cut, which is why its a good idea to start with a small deficit like you have (less than 20%).
My personal opinion is that if you find it pretty easy to do (not losing strength in the gym etc), you should have a larger deficit at the start (when your 17-18%bf) and slowly reduce the size of the deficit as you get leaner - rather than the other way around.
Increasing the size of the deficit when your below 12% isn't the best idea.

A point about cardio: this is a very overrated feature of cutting, your diet is efficient at burning fat for 24hrs a day while cardio willl only make an impact for an hour or so - which do you think is going to create the biggest impact for body recomp?
I would keep your cardio as minimal as possible (including low intensity work) and just increase the deficit through your diet.
Also, I think you should remember that low intensity cardio does seem to accelerate metabolic slowdown (by about 10%) - take this into consideration if your on a long cut (12 weeks).

Finally, your idea about cheat meals: 1 cheat meal per week will do NOTHING physiologically beneficial for fat loss, its purely a psychological benefit to feel "rewarded" for your efforts, I personally tell my clients to avoid them completely.
To get the physiological benefits (upregulate ghrelin, leptin, etc & refill muscle glycogen stores) you want to have a refeed day: 1 day of above maintenance calories, lower fats, higher carbs and similar protein.
Considering your on a small deficit, you won't need a refeed more frequently than every 14 days - unless you go crazy with the cardio, in which case it would have to be more frequent.

Any other questions just fire away

 

[Medhead]

I too prefer dropping the calories a little more than 500 below maintenance just so the process is faster. I have no problem maintaining strength on such a deficit so I don't see a problem with it. With this shit it all comes down to listening to your body imo. For me, I see better results, have more energy, and ultimately feel better at a greater deficit and issuing a refeed whenever my body tells me it needs it.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Overall, your macros and food choices look pretty good dude but I'm going to make a few points to take into consideration:

Firstly, Test alone is more than enough to prevent any significant muscle loss; I personally don't feel the need to add the anavar but this is up to you. Muscle loss is really only an issue for those who are carrying alot more muscle than their frame can naturally handle (IFFB pros).

I realise your nervous about your first serious cut, which is why its a good idea to start with a small deficit like you have (less than 20%).
My personal opinion is that if you find it pretty easy to do (not losing strength in the gym etc), you should have a larger deficit at the start (when your 17-18%bf) and slowly reduce the size of the deficit as you get leaner - rather than the other way around.
Increasing the size of the deficit when your below 12% isn't the best idea.

A point about cardio: this is a very overrated feature of cutting, your diet is efficient at burning fat for 24hrs a day while cardio willl only make an impact for an hour or so - which do you think is going to create the biggest impact for body recomp?
I would keep your cardio as minimal as possible (including low intensity work) and just increase the deficit through your diet.
Also, I think you should remember that low intensity cardio does seem to accelerate metabolic slowdown (by about 10%) - take this into consideration if your on a long cut (12 weeks).

Finally, your idea about cheat meals: 1 cheat meal per week will do NOTHING physiologically beneficial for fat loss, its purely a psychological benefit to feel "rewarded" for your efforts, I personally tell my clients to avoid them completely.
To get the physiological benefits (upregulate ghrelin, leptin, etc & refill muscle glycogen stores) you want to have a refeed day: 1 day of above maintenance calories, lower fats, higher carbs and similar protein.
Considering your on a small deficit, you won't need a refeed more frequently than every 14 days - unless you go crazy with the cardio, in which case it would have to be more frequent.

Any other questions just fire away

BOOM! Droppin some knowledge on ya! Hahaha. Was hoping you'd chime in here bro... Good to know most of my advice was more or less on point. Im learning haha

 

[PrinceDianabol]

I too prefer dropping the calories a little more than 500 below maintenance just so the process is faster. I have no problem maintaining strength on such a deficit so I don't see a problem with it. With this shit it all comes down to listening to your body imo. For me, I see better results, have more energy, and ultimately feel better at a greater deficit and issuing a refeed whenever my body tells me it needs it.

Yep! In terms of strength, im on around a 1000cal deficit and havent lost any.. Actually got a lil stronger. Im on higher test tho (875mg/week)

 

[addy]

May be u can reduce a scoop frm ur protein just before bed and add tht scoop first thing in the morning when u get up,with a fast digesting carb say around 15-20gms, so tht means immediately after getting up have 20gms fast digesting protein and 15-20gms of fast digesting carbs and then ur after an hour some solid poultry which u have in ur 1st meal, also u can again add some quick carbs post workout some 20 gms or 25 may be!

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Firstly, Test alone is more than enough to prevent any significant muscle loss; I personally don't feel the need to add the anavar but this is up to you. Muscle loss is really only an issue for those who are carrying alot more muscle than their frame can naturally handle (IFFB pros).

Finally, your idea about cheat meals: 1 cheat meal per week will do NOTHING physiologically beneficial for fat loss, its purely a psychological benefit to feel "rewarded" for your efforts, I personally tell my clients to avoid them completely.
To get the physiological benefits (upregulate ghrelin, leptin, etc & refill muscle glycogen stores) you want to have a refeed day: 1 day of above maintenance calories, lower fats, higher carbs and similar protein.
Considering your on a small deficit, you won't need a refeed more frequently than every 14 days - unless you go crazy with the cardio, in which case it would have to be more frequent.

I was thinking that the test alone should suffice as like you said I am not carrying a huge amount of muscle and under my genetic limit and keep in mind it is not really a cycle dose of test at 225mg, but say I was to add in the var at 50mg for 6 weeks and increase the deficit, is it possible to actually put on a few lbs of lean muscle @300g protein per day or am I getting too ambitious. Even if adding in the var allows my to increase the deficit to speed up fat loss and retain as much muscle as possible I would be pleased. But again, it's not like anyone could really answer that as I would have to see for myself.

In regards to the refeed, would once every 7 days bee a little too much with essentially the same diet but upping the carbs only so it puts me a bit over maintenance? Or would 14 days be more beneficial (thinking of throwing in some pancakes with some syrup to give me something to look forward too lol), I wasn't too keen on the cheat meal idea and if it isn't going to work and a refeed is the appropriate way to go about this then it has to be done.

Prince, I would say being on 800+mg Test a week has something to do with you not dropping any size or strength lol, the only reason I don't up the test is because I am still dialling in TRT/E2 and I was not planning on using any other compounds except for maybe anavar on this cut as it shouldn't affect that.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I was thinking that the test alone should suffice as like you said I am not carrying a huge amount of muscle and under my genetic limit and keep in mind it is not really a cycle dose of test at 225mg, but say I was to add in the var at 50mg for 6 weeks and increase the deficit, is it possible to actually put on a few lbs of lean muscle @300g protein per day or am I getting too ambitious. Even if adding in the var allows my to increase the deficit to speed up fat loss and retain as much muscle as possible I would be pleased. But again, it's not like anyone could really answer that as I would have to see for myself.

Lol I can tell this is your first serious cut since your talking about gaining muscle mass
I think taking anything to try and gain muscle on a cut is just a complete waste of money, focus on having a nice, smooth cut while retaining muscle & then you can build again. Doing 2 complete physical opposites at the same time won't produce the same results that separating them will.

Now if you simply wanted to add something to speed up fat loss, I would rather use something that either increases your TDEE or suppresses your appetite (EC, clen/t3, etc).
To be honest bro, any reasonable diet will get you below 15% - its only once you get below 12% that a lil help can go a long way.

In regards to the refeed, would once every 7 days bee a little too much with essentially the same diet but upping the carbs only so it puts me a bit over maintenance? Or would 14 days be more beneficial (thinking of throwing in some pancakes with some syrup to give me something to look forward too lol), I wasn't too keen on the cheat meal idea and if it isn't going to work and a refeed is the appropriate way to go about this then it has to be done.

Generally, the smaller the caloric deficit & the higher your bf% - the lower the frequency of refeeds.
Your over 15% and on a very small deficit so having a refeed more frequently than every 14 days will only slow your progress down.
People who utilize refeeds every 5-7 days are either on MUCH larger deficits than yours, are MUCH leaner than you (sub 12%), or a combination of both.

In terms of macros on refeeds: lower the fat, keep protein the same, pump up the carbs - you can eat as much carbs as you feel you can get away with without gaining fat.
Although, I do advice limiting fructose/sucrose to 100g each since these can be converted to fat alot easier than glucose.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Haha yes I believe I am getting a bit too ambitious with expectations to gain any lean mass on this cut, never the less it is not going to impact on me stopping the cut short and I am going to stick with it until I am happy with my bodyfat level, not so much what muscle is there and I've been telling myself this is a cut, the muscle will come after the cut. I was considering either Clen, T3 or Anavar to assist me but if I can get away without it then great. Depending on how much muscle really remains I may throw in 2 weeks of low dose clen to finalise the cut, but at this stage if I can grab some anavar cheap I will be doing that for 6 weeks the entire time. BTW, I don't want it to seem like I am pushing for a reason or for someone to give the AOK to use anavar, I am more than happy to do without it and it isn't like I am planning on using it to try make up for lack of diet, rather the cherry on the completed cake.

Allright I'll stick to every second sunday I'll do refeeds then.

Say I was to drop the deficit, would I want to be dropping fat or carb and keep the protein at 300g?

Also just to add I will be continuing to use Creatine (got the HCl form for free), Citrulline Malate before training sessions and adding in caffeine (in coffee form) without sugar to try curb appetite/energy boost/if it helps speed metabolism up in anyway which IIRC it will?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Say I was to drop the deficit, would I want to be dropping fat or carb and keep the protein at 300g?

Also just to add I will be continuing to use Creatine (got the HCl form for free), Citrulline Malate before training sessions and adding in caffeine (in coffee form) without sugar to try curb appetite/energy boost/if it helps speed metabolism up in anyway which IIRC it will?

If you were to increase the size of the deficit (I assume this is what you ment by dropping it), you would want to drop carbs. Basically, the more you drop carbs/increase the deficit - the more your diet should resemble a modified keto approach.
Protein at 1g/lbm to begin with is more than enough, then increase it to 1.2g once your below 15%, then 1.5g once your below 12%, etc.

Caffeine will obviously help with the issue of fatigue (this becomes a serious problem once your deep into diet mode) but as far as increasing metabolism, it doesn't do anything worth talking about

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Alright so being 88kg I am 194lbs so therefore sitting at 1.5g/lbs with the current diet as it is. Is it a bit overkill? It's not a problem to be getting in 300g protein for me, if it helps keep off catabolism as much as possible then cool.

And yep I meant increase the size of the deficit.

Thinking about getting some Stevia to sweeten things up like my oats as they are a little bland with the eggs not adding any syrup and having any olive oil with the eggs anymore.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Lol dude your far too intelligent (judging by your posts) to be obsessed over catabolism

I dont think people realise just how difficult it is to lose muscle ESPECIALLY if your training is intense (heavy weights) & your protein intake is good (not to mention 225mg of test lol).
1.5g is fine if your comfortable with it, but you should be aware that the higher your bf% - the lower the risks of muscle loss (hence lower protein recommendations at higher bf levels).

 

[DreDay187]

There's literally nothing I can add to what Ripped said...nothing.

Staunched, considering where you're at now, catabolism isn't going to be a problem for you if your protein intake remains above or at minimum needs and you maintain high intensity on your lifts while reducing volume as you go. Stevia works great with oats and so does xylitol. I also like to add cinnamon to them with some fruit to help give flavor.