Going through the ringer of tests for Low-T

[THE-DET-OAK]

yea don't do the adex yet.

with that being said, please consult with your physician before making any changes to your testosterone replacement therapy regimen

 

[TRTnooby]

I'm not entirely sold on the plan either, but she was "great" because she did at least listen and was willing to do something. After going from one primary care doc to two specialists who didn't want to take any action, that was appreciated. Much better than the endocrinologist who said I was "fine" at 248.

Not sure this is going to work for me, but she seemed thoroughly convinced that she's had great success with other guys. She is open to moving to injections but wanted me to try this first. So, I'm going along for the month (go back on 12/30) to see how things are going/how I feel. I'm probably going to push for injections when I go back though. I'm just not entirely sold on the cream idea.

Of all the docs I've been to, she has been the only one who has even mentioned testing my E2 and was at all knowledgeable on the use of HCG as part of TRT. So, I'm willing to give her a chance. I do at least have the feeling that I can tell her what *I* want to do and she'll be open to it. I really just didn't want to seem pushy on my first office visit.

Why do something you aren't sold on to make a doctor happy? My doctor tried to tell me the same thing and I told him no, I didn't want to risk the cream getting on my wife or kids, plus I sweat a ton at the gym so I didn't think I'd get a constant absorption rate. That was enough to get him to prescribe the injections straight away.

 

[JCJ]

Alright.. You all talked me into it. I pinged IMT to see what they could do for me. Had a brief chat with the doctor that prescribed the above mentioned cream and adex. She said she will do injections but will absolutely not allow self-injections. So.. It looks like IMT it is. Just have to see if I can afford the plan they come up with after my paperwork/labs are evaluated.

After doing some reading (and the advice in this thread) it also appears she was a bit wreckless is prescribing adex without even testing e2.

Here's a question for you all. If I keep seeing her for primary care stuff, how do I address being treated by IMT for the Low-T? Is it just "Another physician is treating me for that condition.." ? How do you address that with your primary care docs?

 

[Mr P]

your in good hands with IMT

 

[TRTnooby]

Alright.. You all talked me into it. I pinged IMT to see what they could do for me. Had a brief chat with the doctor that prescribed the above mentioned cream and adex. She said she will do injections but will absolutely not allow self-injections. So.. It looks like IMT it is. Just have to see if I can afford the plan they come up with after my paperwork/labs are evaluated.

After doing some reading (and the advice in this thread) it also appears she was a bit wreckless is prescribing adex without even testing e2.

Here's a question for you all. If I keep seeing her for primary care stuff, how do I address being treated by IMT for the Low-T? Is it just "Another physician is treating me for that condition.." ? How do you address that with your primary care docs?

My primary has never once asked me about my TRT since refering me out over the summer. He doesn't even handle writing the referrals for insurance he just has his office staff do it. I call them up with the doctor's info I want to see and the write it, as long as its for something he's already diagnosed he doesn't get involved.

If cost is an issue (it was for me, TRT is for life and I'm only 38) keep looking for a doctor that is in network that will treat you for your Hypogonadism the way you want to be treated. I went to see 4 different doctors till I found an endo that would let me self inject. Look for younger doctors, 0-5 years in practice, they tend to be less set in their ways a more open to listening to what you have to say.

 

[IMT staff]

My primary has never once asked me about my TRT since refering me out over the summer. He doesn't even handle writing the referrals for insurance he just has his office staff do it. I call them up with the doctor's info I want to see and the write it, as long as its for something he's already diagnosed he doesn't get involved.

If cost is an issue (it was for me, TRT is for life and I'm only 38) keep looking for a doctor that is in network that will treat you for your Hypogonadism the way you want to be treated. I went to see 4 different doctors till I found an endo that would let me self inject. Look for younger doctors, 0-5 years in practice, they tend to be less set in their ways a more open to listening to what you have to say.

^^^^ don't worry about what this guy says, he is still new to TRT himself. He likes to give all of this advice but he isn't even on HCG yet so obviously he hasn't found a doctor that knows what they are doing either. By the time you spend all these man hours finding a doc, and jumping through the hoops they want, IMT is just as cost effective, and a heck of a lot easier.

You made the right choice by contacting IMT and in the following months you will see that is the case.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

My primary has never once asked me about my TRT since refering me out over the summer. He doesn't even handle writing the referrals for insurance he just has his office staff do it. I call them up with the doctor's info I want to see and the write it, as long as its for something he's already diagnosed he doesn't get involved.

If cost is an issue (it was for me, TRT is for life and I'm only 38) keep looking for a doctor that is in network that will treat you for your Hypogonadism the way you want to be treated. I went to see 4 different doctors till I found an endo that would let me self inject. Look for younger doctors, 0-5 years in practice, they tend to be less set in their ways a more open to listening to what you have to say.

Neg reps for you

 

[TRTnooby]

^^^^ don't worry about what this guy says, he is still new to TRT himself. He likes to give all of this advice but he isn't even on HCG yet so obviously he hasn't found a doctor that knows what they are doing either. By the time you spend all these man hours finding a doc, and jumping through the hoops they want, IMT is just as cost effective, and a heck of a lot easier.

You made the right choice by contacting IMT and in the following months you will see that is the case.

It's certainly easier, one phone call vs multiple trips to different doctors, but I can't see any way, at least in my case that the cost would be comparable. On my insurance I pay 7 dollars a month for prescriptions, nothing for blood work, and 25 dollars to see my doctor. That's 10% or less of what you charge. OP said he wasn't sure if he could afford what you charge, so I shared my experience with a similar situation.

I discussed HCG with my doctor, and he was open to it, but we agreed to get my T and E levels dialed in first.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

It's certainly easier, one phone call vs multiple trips to different doctors, but I can't see any way, at least in my case that the cost would be comparable. On my insurance I pay 7 dollars a month for prescriptions, nothing for blood work, and 25 dollars to see my doctor. That's 10% or less of what you charge. OP said he wasn't sure if he could afford what you charge, so I shared my experience with a similar situation.

I discussed HCG with my doctor, and he was open to it, but we agreed to get my T and E levels dialed in first.

Listen man, there is nothing wrong with you telling people to look for a good doc, and thats what you did, but lets be honest, you didn't find a "good" doc, you found someone that lets you basically self prescribe.

So you are flying blind and reading forum posts hoping you can get dialed in. So yea its cheaper that way, and if it works for you great.

But why do you always chase people around and steer them away from IMT? You make it sound like its stupid to go through them and you have never even been a client so how could you possibly have a clue?

The truth is you really don't have a clue cause your a newb. Which is fine, I was a newb at one time.

But when you start going around the forum, acting like your this TRT guru and telling people basically not to go through IMT I have a problem with it.

Not only do they try to keep their prices as low as possible, they have also been here for years educating this forum, helping guys all the time that are in the same situation as you. They helped build this forum that you pretty much learned every single thing you know about TRT from.

So why do that to them? You don't have to recommend them, but when someone says they have decided to give it a try why tell them to do something else instead?

Have you ever seen the IMT roll call thread? I mean look how many satisfied clients they have. Just because your a cheap ass doesn't mean everyone is.

IMT is a concierge Male TRT clinic. Much more hands on than your doc who is actually clueless. How long have you waited to get dialed in? lol what is taking so long.

TRT is just the beginning, 50% or more of IMT clients are on much more intricate programs.

Test, HCG and maybe Adex is like the norm, there is far more you can do.

The bottom-line is, you just don't know what your talking about, so stop telling everyone what to do.

IMT doesn't have a bunch of people self prescribing. They tell people what to do based on the many guys they have that have had great results.

 

[Churro]

I've been with IMT since 2012, over two years.
Every single time I talk to Todd I learn something and I've been in this game a long time.
I was previously with a "big name" HRT MD and his protocol had my hormone levels all fucked up. My E2 way too low, my T was too high and little attention to progesterone or DHEA. It's all about a balance to get it right and IMT does that well.

With IMT, we worked and figured out what worked best for me. I cannot recommend them highly enough. I am glad to see them back here.

Churro aka Scott D. to Todd and the rest at IMT

 

[JCJ]

I have nothing against TRTNooby trying to help out. He's right, I did mention cost being a huge factor. I'm already working two jobs just to stay afloat. IMT seems to be competitively priced, but I'm still wrangling with whether or not I can make the jump. I have enough money left in my HSA to pay for the first 3 months of treatment, but after that.. Well, that's a big concern at the moment. The last thing I want is to find myself in a position where I'm shut down and don't have any money to get my refill. That could end..badly.


Todd was super helpful today and took time to answer all of my questions even though I was a little non-committal during our phone call. I'm confident that--if I can swing the cash--IMT would be the best thing I could do for my health given my current options.

I appreciate all the help and advice I've received in this thread.

 

[Alpin]

I've been with IMT since 2012, over two years.
Every single time I talk to Todd I learn something and I've been in this game a long time.
I was previously with a "big name" HRT MD and his protocol had my hormone levels all fucked up. My E2 way too low, my T was too high and little attention to progesterone or DHEA. It's all about a balance to get it right and IMT does that well.

With IMT, we worked and figured out what worked best for me. I cannot recommend them highly enough. I am glad to see them back here.

Churro aka Scott D. to Todd and the rest at IMT

Good to hear. How are your Progesterone, DHEA levels now?
What dose are you on for HCG?

 

[TRTnooby]

Listen man, there is nothing wrong with you telling people to look for a good doc, and thats what you did, but lets be honest, you didn't find a "good" doc, you found someone that lets you basically self prescribe.

So you are flying blind and reading forum posts hoping you can get dialed in. So yea its cheaper that way, and if it works for you great.

But why do you always chase people around and steer them away from IMT? You make it sound like its stupid to go through them and you have never even been a client so how could you possibly have a clue?

The truth is you really don't have a clue cause your a newb. Which is fine, I was a newb at one time.

But when you start going around the forum, acting like your this TRT guru and telling people basically not to go through IMT I have a problem with it.

Not only do they try to keep their prices as low as possible, they have also been here for years educating this forum, helping guys all the time that are in the same situation as you. They helped build this forum that you pretty much learned every single thing you know about TRT from.

So why do that to them? You don't have to recommend them, but when someone says they have decided to give it a try why tell them to do something else instead?

Have you ever seen the IMT roll call thread? I mean look how many satisfied clients they have. Just because your a cheap ass doesn't mean everyone is.

IMT is a concierge Male TRT clinic. Much more hands on than your doc who is actually clueless. How long have you waited to get dialed in? lol what is taking so long.

TRT is just the beginning, 50% or more of IMT clients are on much more intricate programs.

Test, HCG and maybe Adex is like the norm, there is far more you can do.

The bottom-line is, you just don't know what your talking about, so stop telling everyone what to do.

IMT doesn't have a bunch of people self prescribing. They tell people what to do based on the many guys they have that have had great results.

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from you guys at all, nor am I presenting myself as an expert. Just a guy going through what a lot of guys are going through and sharing my experience with it. My first call was to a few different online places, I was even ready to sign up with one, but 2400 or more a year for the rest of my life is a shit ton of money. Thats thousands not going into my retirement or my kids college fund. Sure I could swing it and not even really notice it month to month, my wife and I have a good income, but I just couldn't live with myself doing it. Everyone has to make the decision for themselves. I'm just sharing my experience, like everyone that came before me has done.

As far as my relationship with my Endo goes, I would hardly say I'm self prescribing, lol. When I went to him I felt like absolute shit, my T was 144. I wanted to go on 200 a week, plus Adex, HCG right away. If he was just a blank prescription pad that would be my protocol today. If I really wanted to self prescribe I would just go with non-prescription sources, I'm a savvy guy, I would have no trouble finding them, but as a recovering addict, I know I'm the last person who should be doing shit like that.

I have nothing against you guys, from what I've heard you do a great job at what you do, it just doesn't work for me due to the cost and my current financial situation, if that were to change, I'd probably be calling you up. The internet has been a great source of information for me in every area of my life, because its a place where regular people share their experience and give an additional perspective other than what you get from the experts. All I'm doing is paying it back, if all anyone ever did was read, and not share then the machine breaks down. People are free to consider the source, if they think I'm an idiot they are free to ignore me.

 

[Gbrad]

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from you guys at all, nor am I presenting myself as an expert. Just a guy going through what a lot of guys are going through and sharing my experience with it. My first call was to a few different online places, I was even ready to sign up with one, but 2400 or more a year for the rest of my life is a shit ton of money. Thats thousands not going into my retirement or my kids college fund. Sure I could swing it and not even really notice it month to month, my wife and I have a good income, but I just couldn't live with myself doing it. Everyone has to make the decision for themselves. I'm just sharing my experience, like everyone that came before me has done.

As far as my relationship with my Endo goes, I would hardly say I'm self prescribing, lol. When I went to him I felt like absolute shit, my T was 144. I wanted to go on 200 a week, plus Adex, HCG right away. If he was just a blank prescription pad that would be my protocol today. If I really wanted to self prescribe I would just go with non-prescription sources, I'm a savvy guy, I would have no trouble finding them, but as a recovering addict, I know I'm the last person who should be doing shit like that.

I have nothing against you guys, from what I've heard you do a great job at what you do, it just doesn't work for me due to the cost and my current financial situation, if that were to change, I'd probably be calling you up. The internet has been a great source of information for me in every area of my life, because its a place where regular people share their experience and give an additional perspective other than what you get from the experts. All I'm doing is paying it back, if all anyone ever did was read, and not share then the machine breaks down. People are free to consider the source, if they think I'm an idiot they are free to ignore me.

The advice you are giving is not wise. "Doctor hopping" until you find a doc to do what you want is terrible advice. I agree to find a diffrent doc if one turns out to be a turd, but to go around till you find someone willing to go along with your plan (that you formulated in part off of Steroidology) is a time wasting practice. It counters your assessment of yourself being savvy.
Understand the dynamic here. You are posting on a forum and essentially are competing with a forum sponsor for patients. I understand you are not providing services, but you damned sure are selling your thought processes (which you are obviously very proud of). I'm telling you and ANYONE else who wants to go this route the following:
1)It is bad practice to shop for docs
2)It preserves a "patient seeker" stigma in a lot of primary care docs minds
3)It retards the patient from getting optimal care
4)Doctors know each other; they work, share call, and pass along patient names who are hopping around seeking meds. I realize we aren't talking about narcs here but it is in the same vein.

If you want to go this route then do it. If you want to come to this site and scavenge info to help advance your "frugal approach to therapy" then fine. Just do us all a favor and quit actively advancing your "savvy" approach to TRT from a cost standpoint. I believe your motivation is more to appear smart and savvy than to help others anyway but that is only speculation.

BTW...I do not currently use IMT due to a very unique situation where a close friend is my primary doctor. I do spend quite a bit of $$$ monthly though. IMT is on my radar should my doc become uncomfortable with my treatments. Out of respect for his practice and our friendship, I would call IMT should this become the case. I can tell you with the crap sandwich we are being fed through Obamacare, that time is sooner than later.

 

[JCJ]

Another update.. I went back to the doctor today.

She mentioned wanting to put me on HCG. Great, I said.. Then she asked me if I wanted to come in or just self-inject. I took the DIY option (obviously). Then I mentioned preferring shots over the testosterone cream, you know, since she was going to let me self-inject HCG anyway. She said "Sure! I trust you with it. You want to do it Sub-Q or IM?" Keep in mind, a week ago I was strongly told that there was no way I would be self-injecting. I think she was just trying to weed out certain clients... So, I'm getting pre-filled syringes of HCG (enough for a month at a time) to save me some cash over wasting any of it due to the short shelf life. I'm also getting a prescription for weekly 150mg test cyp.

She also tested my T and E2 today and told me to keep the Arimidex on standby but not to take it until further notice (Had that covered already.)

I might have found a doctor I can work with.

For the time being, I'm going to go with this instead of IMT and see how it works out. It just makes more sense from a cost perspective...and that's a huge factor for me right now. I feel like I wasted Todd @ IMT's time with the questions I was asking about the program. So, let me publicly apologize to IMT Staff for that. There may be a time when I'll need IMT's services and I know where you find you. I also recommend others do the same if they can't get proper treatment from their physician.

 

[JCJ]

Another update.

I'm now several weeks in to TRT and just had my follow up lab work.

This was taken two days before my next shot.
Testosterone: 487
E2 (sensitive test): 44

I haven't picked up the lab sheet yet, but these were the numbers give to me over the phone by my doctor.

She had originally taken me off the adex to wait and see if I actually need it. Now she wants me to go ahead and start taking it again (1/2mg twice a week). She also wasn't happy with my testosterone level and is going to increase my test up from 100mg/wk to 150mg/wk to see where that gets me. Re-checking labs in 4 weeks. She's trying to get me to "at least 700."

Still doing HCG 250mg twice a week.

Progress is slow and her approach is very cautious, but we're getting there.

 

[TRTnooby]

Why not try splitting the doses?

 

[Megatron28]

Another update.

I'm now several weeks in to TRT and just had my follow up lab work.

This was taken two days before my next shot.
Testosterone: 487
E2 (sensitive test): 44

I haven't picked up the lab sheet yet, but these were the numbers give to me over the phone by my doctor.

She had originally taken me off the adex to wait and see if I actually need it. Now she wants me to go ahead and start taking it again (1/2mg twice a week). She also wasn't happy with my testosterone level and is going to increase my test up from 100mg/wk to 150mg/wk to see where that gets me. Re-checking labs in 4 weeks. She's trying to get me to "at least 700."

Still doing HCG 250mg twice a week.

Progress is slow and her approach is very cautious, but we're getting there.

That is probably too much adex. Start at .25mg twice a week on the higher test dosage.

 

[JCJ]

Good advice on the adex, Megatron. I'm doing 0.25 twice a week now and my latest labs showed E2 @ 25 (still on 100mg test). Testosterone was at 400 the day of my shot (before injection). I talked the doc into allowing me twice a week injections going forward.

So now I'm to:

50mg Test Cyp on Mon AM/Thurs PM (sub-q)
0.25 Adex Mon/Thurs (with t-shot)
250 HCG Sun/Wed (day before t-shots)
50mg Zinc daily <--This is a new addition at the recommendation of my Dr.


Hoping this levels out my testosterone levels and brings my trough level up a bit. Labs again on 4/23.

Other than the still low-T the only negative on the latest labs was me hematocrit level. It was >50 (52, I believe). I posted another thread about the drama I went through trying to donate blood, heh. I'll be trying that again in two months when I can attempt to donate again.

Dr. really wants to try 150mg split into 2x week doses, but won't do it until I get my hematocrit down. We may not need to increase dosage with the new 2x week injection schedule though. Here's hoping... It has been a two steps forward, one step back process so far.

Oh, for anyone who might be interested.. I've experimented with a few different syringes for sub-q injections. So far my favorite has been the Monoject 28ga x 1/2" insulin syringe. It takes a minute or two to fill with test, but it is low-loss and definitely painless. Probably useless info for most of the guys here, but I thought I'd share since I've received so much useful information and advice.

 

[JCJ]

Been a while, so I thought I'd stop in and update my thread.

Latest lab work:
Hemoglobin: 16.9 (this is down from 17.8)
Hematocrit: 50 (Down from 52-53)

Total Testosterone: 887
E2 (sensitive test): 19

Current protocol:
75mg test 2x weekly (Mon AM/Thur PM) (150mg total/week)
250IU HCG Tues/Fri
0.25mg Adex 2x week (with Test shots)

Feeling great... Still slightly concerned about hematocrit levels, but glad to see it down slightly.


Thank you all for the support during this process!