Growth Hormone for Everyone...

[panteracfh]

I've been involved in a couple threads where the use of GH for inexperienced bodybuilders, especially those at a younger age such as 20-25, has been discouraged. I have to disagree and if i am wrong i really would like to be explained exactly why.

To begin, i agree that the cost of GH in relation to the benefits is not the best option for most people, but for the sake of this discussion i would like to leave the high cost aside.

Here are a couple quotes discouraging using GH at a younger age and/or by inexperienced body builders:

at your age and stats there is simply no reason to be running it. Your choice.

Other than the fact that you are wasting your money, (or your Daddy's money), you are living in a completely delusional state of mind!
...

Here's a dose of reality: Try putting some real effort in your training and diet! Ultimately it's the only way you or anyone will make any real gains in muscle size and strength.

As far as i'm concerned the order should be this:

Natty
Basic Supps
Advanced supps
Light cycle
Heavier cycling
GH, Slin

All the GH and steroids in the world cannot make your grow. There is no escaping dedication to training and diet.

I have to disagree regarding these references to GH. First off the risks of GH use are lower than AAS. Obviously the younger you are the greater chance GH can interfere with growth plates and complication that arise from that, but similarly Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use can effect growth plates as well if not yet sealed.

Next, diet and training ARE the bottom line, but i dont think its very hard to argue that GH is in fact somewhat of an escape or substitute of sorts for good diet and cardio to a degree. Let me stress i said to a degree before i get my head cut off. In my experience (which i admittedly say is limited) along with countless posts that include feedback on the results of GH there is no doubt that one of the better known advantages is to be able to get sloppy with your diet and slack off on the cardio while not reaping the penalty of higher body fat. Sometimes even being able to continue lowering your body fat.

Obviously each person will react differently and each individual's results will vary, but what downside is there for a bodybuilder at any level in their lifting career to give GH a shot?

By saying there is no reason someone should be taking GH, you are implying there is a reason they should not be taking it, and other than the lack of affordability, i see no substance to this argument.

Like i said in the begining, i could be way off, but i have yet to have someone explain to me exactly why. I'm not really looking to even be right and prove someone else wrong, there's just merit to this discussion (in my opinion) and if anything I can learn something from starting it.

 

[Cardiff_Muscle]

Fair point and I, like yourself, am no expert. However my oppinion on the matter is this.

Jumping straight to GH rather than steadily building up your physique naturally, and then through low dose cycles, is almost cheating yourself out of gains in the long run. The way I see it, the body is an amazing machine and over the course of time, can be built in to an absolute thing of beauty.....but this is the catch "over time".

In an ideal world, take Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is there to take you natural physique and genetics above and beyond when it is effectively reached its peak. The human body can only grow so far. Introduction of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) take's it past its natural limit and in some cases beyond.

Unfortunatley we live in a time where patience is non exsitant and young kids in an attempt to get "ripped" and "swole", without putting in the time and effort, jump on the gear bandwagon. What you see today is kids 18-22 with decent physique's that they have attained through steroid usage.......what they fail to realise is that the could have got exactally the same gains through correct natural training but over time. In the end they couldnt be arsed to wait!!!!

What it boils down to is that by jumping on the GH/AAS early on, your not going to reap the full benefits.

Jsut my 2p worth

 

[Aztech]

to see good results from gh, you are looking at 6 months bro. Proper diet and supplement timing could probably get you the same results (as you sound a little new to the subject)

 

[running gun]

At the age of 20-25 your body should be naturally producing enough GH. I can't speak for the others but it would seem that better options would prove much more beneficial at that age. The doses would have to be high to see noticable results from GH at that age. I know price wasn't the issue but 10iu's a day would be exspensive.

 

[Lucky13]

I'd prefer to take steroids, the side effects are "virtually" all understood and counteracting them isn't to hard......GH side effects on the other hand are still pretty much unknown and I'd like to see how your going to counteract enlarged organs..not really my cup of tea....plus if you have a tumour it's going to grow much faster if your taking GH.

I'll take GH when the time comes but not at such high doses that a 20year old would require, from what I've read that would need to be in the region of 7+ IU ED not cheap and not good for ur organs, I wonder how good your 6pack looks with a GH gut....I've even heard of guys with enlarged organs on 4IU a day.

GH freaks me out a little and i'd much prefer to put the dedication into my diet and cardio and get the same results plus gain lots of knowledge about my body.

 

[Skarhead1]

im 21 and I plan on trying out GH for the fat loss, good lipid profile, and healthy tendons and ligaments.

 

[bwahahaha]

I'm gonna be doing a GH run in the fall, I'm 22. I got the money, so why not?

Also, I have a bunch of slin here, which I'll be using shortly...this "leave certain things til later" idea has no merit for me, if I can get to my goals by the time I'm 25 utilizing everything at my disposal why not? Why wait until then to even start using certain compounds? I see no reason for it.

 

[pineapple]

I'm gonna be doing a GH run in the fall, I'm 22. I got the money, so why not?

Also, I have a bunch of slin here, which I'll be using shortly...this "leave certain things til later" idea has no merit for me, if I can get to my goals by the time I'm 25 utilizing everything at my disposal why not? Why wait until then to even start using certain compounds? I see no reason for it.

What you should ask is not why not but why take it in the first place? Whats the reason?
Too many guys jump on the HGH wagon thinking they'll get big from taking HGH; OR they think, hey in a few more years I'll be able to put on 40 more lbs of muscle and be bigger than everyone else. Keep on dreaming fellas.

 

[panteracfh]

to see good results from gh, you are looking at 6 months bro. Proper diet and supplement timing could probably get you the same results (as you sound a little new to the subject)

Ive only done it as long as 200iu's worth @ 4ius a day thus far and have seen good results. Aside from that, one could just as easily say that same proper diet and supplement timing with the addition of GH could get yeild even better results.

 

[roccodart440]

To me I would think higher dose GH or IGF-1 might be better for a younger person. Might. Heres my logic. It doesn't interefere with sex hormones which are very high at younger ages and you don't have to worry about HPTA problems. It would take advatage of the uncapped bones unlike Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) which would close them. I also don't agree that HGH takes 6 months or more to see the efects. Ask runing gun if he feels the effects of 4iu per day. He does. When considering HGH and it's active lifte how can it take 6 months to get any effects. Listen closly to what people say it take 6 moths to SEE results" and most guys saying that are doing 2iu, maybe 4iu split doesed every day. Oh and how many take the weekends off? Or do EOD inj's?

 

[panteracfh]

I'd prefer to take steroids, the side effects are "virtually" all understood and counteracting them isn't to hard......GH side effects on the other hand are still pretty much unknown and I'd like to see how your going to counteract enlarged organs..not really my cup of tea....plus if you have a tumour it's going to grow much faster if your taking GH.

I'll take GH when the time comes but not at such high doses that a 20year old would require, from what I've read that would need to be in the region of 7+ IU ED not cheap and not good for ur organs, I wonder how good your 6pack looks with a GH gut....I've even heard of guys with enlarged organs on 4IU a day.

GH freaks me out a little and i'd much prefer to put the dedication into my diet and cardio and get the same results plus gain lots of knowledge about my body.

I would like to address the statement that has come up a couple of times already about younger guys having to use unusually higher doses to see anything from it. From what i have read the body naturally secretes .5-1.5ius a day, so its not really surprising when i read about guys in their early 20's using as low as 3ius a day and seeing good results from it. 4-6ius is what is generally advised and i think that range is perfectly fine for he younger guys. Yes your going to see more of a change if you are older since increasing your GH levels by 8-10X as opposed to 3-4X but the latter is still significant.

Lucky, if you can dig up any links on the stuff you read about organ enlargement that would be cool. I would especially like to see the instance that you heard of where 4ius a day caused enlarged organs.

I'm definetely not knockin you for stearing clear of GH, i understand your reasoning, but like i said it is an individual thing. I believe you are assuming the worst about GH and there is a good amount of info out there, we aren't sailing in uncharted territory. From your cycle logs you seem like a very careful person so i could see why someone like yourself would be concerned. Generally everything i have read has associated those organ enlarging side effects with extreme doses.

 

[DocJ]

The two main reasons to use HGH are:
1. Aid in lowering bodyfat.
-The reason why this isn't as practical for someone in their 20's is that the metabolism hasn't altered much from your late teens, while after you hit 30 lots of things begin to alter in ones metabolism.
-Will HGH help someone in their 20's burn more fat, yes, is it cost effective at that age? Definately not.
2. Muscle Growth.
-The dosage typically needed to induce actual muscle growth is at least 4iu/day and in most people 6iu+/day for a solid 6 months.
-Again cost is a factor here but hopefully someone in their 20's hasn't done alot of "pharmaceutical enhancement" yet so simple low dose Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycles during these years with proper post cycle therapy (pct) is WAY more practical/effective than trying to use HGH correctly for muscle growth.

 

[panteracfh]

The two main reasons to use HGH are:
1. Aid in lowering bodyfat.
-The reason why this isn't as practical for someone in their 20's is that the metabolism hasn't altered much from your late teens, while after you hit 30 lots of things begin to alter in ones metabolism.
-Will HGH help someone in their 20's burn more fat, yes, is it cost effective at that age? Definately not.
2. Muscle Growth.
-The dosage typically needed to induce actual muscle growth is at least 4iu/day and in most people 6iu+/day for a solid 6 months.
-Again cost is a factor here but hopefully someone in their 20's hasn't done alot of "pharmaceutical enhancement" yet so simple low dose Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycles during these years with proper post cycle therapy (pct) is WAY more practical/effective than trying to use HGH correctly for muscle growth.

"Cost effective" and "practical" are both individually defined concepts. Other than that, can't argue with the facts, dont disagree with anything here.

 

[DocJ]

"Cost effective" and "practical" are both individually defined concepts. Other than that, can't argue with the facts, dont disagree with anything here.

Yes, very subjective...
I'm not sure people are saying that HGH isn't effective in youger people, just that's it's MORE effective as you get into your 30-40's and DRAMATICALLY more effective into your 50's+.

 

[Skarhead1]

^ Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) alters your metabolism too, so that point is kind of invalid there... HOw about my reasons -- good lipid panel and ligament n tendon health? I mean #1 is body fat but a close #2 are right there

 

[DocJ]

^ Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) alters your metabolism too, so that point is kind of invalid there... HOw about my reasons -- good lipid panel and ligament n tendon health? I mean #1 is body fat but a close #2 are right there

True but it doesn't make it "invalid", see my second point under muscle growth, I'm talking in terms of practicality/cost effectiveness.

 

[Miss Muscle]

This is a great thread!

I'm a female who has never used anything before. Even my supplements are basic. But before I try any Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) I'll give GH a go. I think women have to be alot more careful when doing gear then men, and I like the alternative of GH.

 

[Lucky13]

I would like to address the statement that has come up a couple of times already about younger guys having to use unusually higher doses to see anything from it. From what i have read the body naturally secretes .5-1.5ius a day, so its not really surprising when i read about guys in their early 20's using as low as 3ius a day and seeing good results from it. 4-6ius is what is generally advised and i think that range is perfectly fine for he younger guys. Yes your going to see more of a change if you are older since increasing your GH levels by 8-10X as opposed to 3-4X but the latter is still significant.

Lucky, if you can dig up any links on the stuff you read about organ enlargement that would be cool. I would especially like to see the instance that you heard of where 4ius a day caused enlarged organs.

I'm definetely not knockin you for stearing clear of GH, i understand your reasoning, but like i said it is an individual thing. I believe you are assuming the worst about GH and there is a good amount of info out there, we aren't sailing in uncharted territory. From your cycle logs you seem like a very careful person so i could see why someone like yourself would be concerned. Generally everything i have read has associated those organ enlarging side effects with extreme doses.

It was a chap on this forum, I can't remember his username but something like GHman or HGHman, he had been on 4IU for a few years and after going in for an abdominal operation the Dr had remarked that his organs were mishapen and oversized... still that is only one person...maybe his organs were always mishapen

 

[DocJ]

It was a chap on this forum, I can't remember his username but something like GHman or HGHman, he had been on 4IU for a few years and after going in for an abdominal operation the Dr had remarked that his organs were mishapen and oversized... still that is only one person...maybe his organs were always mishapen

This can happen simply from lifting heavy weights and eating tons of calories for many years, however, anything increasing IGF-1 levels (which HGH does) can cause organ enlargement. If one is carefull with total dose (under 6iu/day IMO) and duration (at least some time off) the risk can be minimized.

 

[DocJ]

^ Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) alters your metabolism too, so that point is kind of invalid there... HOw about my reasons -- good lipid panel and ligament n tendon health? I mean #1 is body fat but a close #2 are right there

Your points are well taken, however, a younger person probably doesn't have tendon strength issues to worry about unless they've had multiple injuries.