hCG on cycle benefits, mixing and administration details

[Rida5d]

Not aware of what post cycle therapy (pct) thread you speak of. But certainly not something I wrote.

It's the post cycle therapy (pct) protocol sticky written by the det oak.. It's called standard post cycle therapy (pct)'s
By the way, he changed the 500 iu * 10 times (blast) to 1500 iu every 3 days..
Check the last pages on the sticky..
He said that there is a new study saying that after shooting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) , ur body won't response to any other shot for the next few days, something like that.. That's why the 500*10 shots daily is not recommended anymore ..
I'd like to hear wt aus would say about this..
Different schools , different ways to administer .. And now aus (the guy I trust) says its not a must to blast .. Jeez..

 

[Rida5d]

There's two opinions on this: blast Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the end of your cycle leading up to post cycle therapy (pct) in the post cycle therapy (pct) sticky you mention and running it alongside your cycle from the beginning such as what Austin mentions in here. Both have been shown to work BUT personally (and I think Austin agrees here) that its better to run it alongside your cycle from the beginning since suppression starts almost immediately. Why blast it at the end to "jump start" when you could be running it during the cycle and minimize the effects from the beginning? It's like treating a cold after you get it vs taking active measures to try and avoid it in the first place.

I'm sorry dre buddy but I guess there is a small misunderstanding..
I went threw all this thread and he recommends both ways at the same time.. Running Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on cycle and the blast phase. He also was clear that the blasting phase is as important if not more important than the on cycle administering.
Ur input sir is highly appreciated, and austinute of course .

 

[Austinite]

It's the post cycle therapy (pct) protocol sticky written by the det oak.. It's called standard post cycle therapy (pct)'s
By the way, he changed the 500 iu * 10 times (blast) to 1500 iu every 3 days..
Check the last pages on the sticky..
He said that there is a new study saying that after shooting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) , ur body won't response to any other shot for the next few days, something like that.. That's why the 500*10 shots daily is not recommended anymore ..
I'd like to hear wt aus would say about this..
Different schools , different ways to administer .. And now aus (the guy I trust) says its not a must to blast .. Jeez..

Blasting is a bad idea. there are 100 ways to blast, but it should not be called blasting. It should be called "Fixing a mistake". And hCG on cycle should be called "Preventing a mistake".

Blasting post cycle, as I have mentioned many times, is a terrible idea. It should ONLY be done AFTER post cycle therapy (pct) IF post cycle therapy (pct) fails. Otherwise, why would you blast? It does not make any sense whatsoever.

ON cycle damage happens, why would you wait until AFTER the damage is done to begin repairs, when you can simply prevent the damage by running it on cycle. Damage does not magically appear post cycle.

1500 IU of hCG is fine, but you won't metabolize all of that in one injection, so it's kind of a waste. I feel like a broken record sometimes but I'll say this again. Would you put your seatbelt on AFTER you get into a wreck? No, that would be silly. You put your seatbelt on WHILE you're driving to prevent injury. hCG is your seatbelt.

Blasting is silly and should have never been introduced for post cycle recovery. It should only be used as a final measure, if post cycle therapy (pct) fails.

 

[Rida5d]

Blasting is a bad idea. there are 100 ways to blast, but it should not be called blasting. It should be called "Fixing a mistake". And hCG on cycle should be called "Preventing a mistake".

Blasting post cycle, as I have mentioned many times, is a terrible idea. It should ONLY be done AFTER post cycle therapy (pct) IF post cycle therapy (pct) fails. Otherwise, why would you blast? It does not make any sense whatsoever.

ON cycle damage happens, why would you wait until AFTER the damage is done to begin repairs, when you can simply prevent the damage by running it on cycle. Damage does not magically appear post cycle.

1500 IU of hCG is fine, but you won't metabolize all of that in one injection, so it's kind of a waste. I feel like a broken record sometimes but I'll say this again. Would you put your seatbelt on AFTER you get into a wreck? No, that would be silly. You put your seatbelt on WHILE you're driving to prevent injury. hCG is your seatbelt.

Blasting is silly and should have never been introduced for post cycle recovery. It should only be used as a final measure, if post cycle therapy (pct) fails.

Austinute he says Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) should be run on cycle also.. And then blast..
He says running 250* 2 weekly is a must
And the blast is a must
So it's a seal belt and an air bag )))
Now
I'm only quoting :

There are 3 reasons to run a blast phase of HCG

#1 To test the testicles to see if they are still able to produce testosterone at their maximum capacity. If they can not produce testosterone at their maximum capacity you have developed hypogonadism. It would be wise to get a blood test done during this time to see if the testicles are producing enough testosterone to get your testosterone levels within physiological range. If they are not, there is no point in SERM treatment at this time and more Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is needed. When I say more, that may mean a higher dose for longer duration, or just a longer duration.

#2 By blasting during this time we are ensuring that our testosterone is within physiological range, thus attempting to prevent going catabolic.

#3 To stimulate the pituitary. This will provide the material the testes need to produce testosterone.

I hope I covered everything. This was meant to simplify the post cycle therapy (pct) process, in hopes that guys will understand its really not that complicated.

 

[XELFLEC]

That number one is very interesting can you post a link to where you quoted that?
Hoping to find the study that backs that aswell.

 

[Austinite]

I don't want to get involved in another thread and I don't want to step on anyones toes. I posted this thread with the opinion that the method I recommended will suffice.

1. No such thing as maximum capacity, only God knows that. Compared to pre-cycle? hCG is no indicator.
2. You have to understand metabolism to see why this is irrelevant. If you don't understand metabolism (which I explained many times) I can't comment.
3. Pituitary and everything else hCG affects has already been stimulated for the duration of the cycle.

 

[Rida5d]

That number one is very interesting can you post a link to where you quoted that?
Hoping to find the study that backs that aswell.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/595482-standard-pct-s.html

 

[Rida5d]

I don't want to get involved in another thread and I don't want to step on anyones toes. I posted this thread with the opinion that the method I recommended will suffice.

1. No such thing as maximum capacity, only God knows that. Compared to pre-cycle? hCG is no indicator.
2. You have to understand metabolism to see why this is irrelevant. If you don't understand metabolism (which I explained many times) I can't comment.
3. Pituitary and everything else hCG affects has already been stimulated for the duration of the cycle.

Come on austinute bro, take it easy buddy, first time I see u angry ))
I just posted a part from a sticky and I had this idea that stickies are to be trusted as they won't be considered stickies at our website unless they are posted by an experienced member, and approved in a way or another..
You asked why the blast and I quoted to reply , it doesn't mean I agree or disagree I just wanted to hear ur feedback on that protocol and I didn't mean to disrespect..
So plz accept my apology if I offended u.. That's not what I meant, I was just seeking for answers..

 

[Austinite]

Come on austinute bro, take it easy buddy, first time I see u angry ))
I just posted a part from a sticky and I had this idea that stickies are to be trusted as they won't be considered stickies at our website unless they are posted by an experienced member, and approved in a way or another..
You asked why the blast and I quoted to reply , it doesn't mean I agree or disagree I just wanted to hear ur feedback on that protocol and I didn't mean to disrespect..
So plz accept my apology if I offended u.. That's not what I meant, I was just seeking for answers..

Not angry at all. I take no offense. I'm always open for options, experiences and theories, that's how I arrived at mine, however...imagine if I asked you the same questions every single day. If you look at my history, I've answered these questions at least 30 to 40 times. they're even answered in the articles I've written. So you have to understand that after a while, it get's a little bit tedious is all. Doesn't mean I'm offended, just frustrated that people don't read the hard work I put in, and then ask me questions that have been answered. Even in threads they've replied to saying "Great read". If there is a misunderstanding in the way I explained something, I understand.

This is the reason that I write articles, to answer questions. But I feel at times that my efforts are fruitless. I don't discount anyones' work, and I am not saying that it does not work, I just happened to believe that I have evidence to prove my theory works. One of the main things I pride myself with, is that when I say something, I back it up with a completely detailed and scientific explanation. I never just say "Do this because it does that". I actually break down the entire process and show you exactly what happens from the second you administer until the second it clears your system and everything it affects along the way.

If this kind of contribution is not what we want, I'll be happy to answer questions with "Yes and No". So my frustration has nothing to do with other opinions, but the lack of results my educational services have provided, which is my problem, no one elses.

Thanks.

 

[Rida5d]

One of the main things I pride myself with, is that when I say something, I back it up with a completely detailed and scientific explanation. I never just say "Do this because it does that". I actually break down the entire process and show you exactly what happens from the second you administer until the second it clears your system and everything it affects along the way.

And that's exactly why I personally run to u when I have issues..

Yes, all ur posts are great indeed, and still I believe you are opened for other theories ,
I mean u ve Ben cycling since I started lifting , this makes u a very experienced vet , but I don't have the same experience as you, that's why I come to this site.. To hear advice from guys who know more..... but the problem occurs when 2 respected members disagree on something.. Here I get lost.
That's why I quoted those lines from that thread.. It was an answer to ur question why the blast.. And I had the impression that u think that the other thread recommends Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast , and not during cycle, which is not the case.

Even if we say it's great read, I'm sure u will accept hearing other opinions so we (the less experienced) users can come with a better conclusion..

Now we all know ur opinion .. U are against the blasting phase unless a post cycle therapy (pct) fails.
Thnx again austinute..

 

[Austinite]

Again, it's not about other opinions. My theories are one of 1000's out there. People will always disagree. It's the repetitiveness that gets to me. I don't exactly enjoy being a broken record.

This has nothing to do with other opinions. Not sure why you keep repeating that. I disagree with people and they disagree with me everyday. Nothing to do with this at all. Not even a topic of discussion.

Anyway, thanks... I'm done with all this.

 

[5x10]

The less water used to mix, the better, IMO
If your doing half a cc, which in some insulin needles, is the whole thing full, the cold water burns under my skin

I mix 1cc with 5000iu
Then I pull 1/10 of 1 cc per shot

 

[DreDay187]

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...5482-standard-post cycle therapy (pct)-s.html

I read over that link and believe I saw a critical mistake. In it it states

HCG will also stimulate the pituitary. GNRH is a hormone recieved by the pituitary. Once the pituitary receives this hormone it will send out the LH and FSH signal.

HCG will stimulate pituitary but it will stimulate pituitary at a much higher rate when total serum T levels are on the decline. Basically when you stop injecting suppressive compounds the level of that compound in our body will slowly decline, at a rate that depends on ester length.

When using exogenous AAS, the pituitary is told by the brain, which picks up the excess levels of AAS, to stop producing the Leutinizing hormone since it is no longer needed. This is basically the suppression which comes from going on a cycle. HCG mimicks LH and that signal is sent straight to the gonads to stimulate them to produce endogenous testosterone. HCG bypasses the pituitary and by doing so suppresses it if not already suppressed or keeps it suppressed if already suppressed since the brain senses no need to produce LH.

The following is a quote by Mike Arnold, another respected member:

HCG does NOT re-start the HPTA...it ONLY keeps the tests functioning through exogenous means. Still, this is beneficial for recovery because atrophied testes are not able to produce adequate testosterone. Before the testes can fully respond to post cycle therapy (pct) drugs and begin producing normal amounts of testosterone, they must re-grow to a normal size. By keeping the testes at a normal size throight the cycle, they are able to immediately respond to the LH produced by the pituitary when the person begins using post cycle therapy (pct) drugs. Altogether, HCG probably speeds up recovery by a few weeks.

The bolded portion is important here: to respond to post cycle therapy (pct) drugs or SERMs, the testes must be normal size. By using HCG on cycle as Austinite has written in his guide, you keep the testes normal size throughout the cycle so when you come off cycle there is NO NEED to continue HCG use. It will in fact keep you suppressed at the level of the pituitary the longer its used. Again, if used on cycle you prevent what you try to fix when "blasting" it post-cycle and pre-post cycle therapy (pct). This may or may not be Austin's reasoning but it further adds to the credibility of his preferred method of use.

As to the 3 reasons mentioned:

1) I agree with Austin, there is no magical maximum capacity. You couldn't even really test that since there are many factors that go into your pre-cycle testosterone levels, provided you have blood work to know what they are, that its impossible to replicate exact conditions. If you take the test at different times of the day, training, sleep cycles, etc can all affect test levels so they will never exactly match up in a blood test.

2) again agree with Austin, according to William Llewellyn in Anabolics, the body can only metabolize a certain amount of HCG at a single point in time. I believe the number is somewhere around 500-750ius. Don't quote me on that I've got to double check the text, maybe Austin can verify or deny that, but knowing the body can metabolize only so much at one time, blasting it at 1000iu or in excess of that is pointless since around half of that is literally going to waste.

3) this is where there's complete disagreement with the link you posted. HCG will NOT simulate the pituitary. Because HCG mimicks LH (it isn't LH it only acts like it) and it bypasses the pituitary since the brain sense no need to produce LH (HCG is like a counterfeit LH) the pituitary will only be further suppressed from producing LH because there is no need for LH, the testes have picked up on the fake HCG signal and the pituitary isn't needed to produce LH on its own.

Finally I have to say for Austin that he's right to be feeling how he feels. He has done research for all of us that we are either too lazy, too inept to do on our own, or just don't know how to do proper research. Repeating his methods and reasoning over and over and over again must be as tedious as all the xyzz and oral only threads, you know we all tire from those. His methods and reasoning are laid out for anyone to independently verify and assess for themselves. By trying to get him to comment on someone else's thread and methods only makes it seem like he is stepping on someone else's toes. The research is there for anyone to look up, references can more than likely be posted, and it's written in a way that explains his reasoning for doing things the way he does. It's up to you to follow the research, check sources, etc and do what you believe to be the best for you. Not hating on you Rida, but just tryin to point out the things that I picked up on . Whatever you do, I hope you cycle safely and get all you can out of it .

Austin, if I've stepped on your toes or spoken on your behalf out of turn let me know and I will not hesitate to edit my post. I just figured I could add to the information with some pertinent info. Thank you for taking the time to research and write this, now do I need HCG for a cycle or can I skip it if its a waste of money ?!

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think most of Austine's threads should be stickies. Or one sticky with links to all of his educational threads.

I like the info he provides, more informative than most of our stickies in this section IMO.

 

[Rida5d]

Finally I have to say for Austin that he's right to be feeling how he feels. He has done research for all of us that we are either too lazy, too inept to do on our own, or just don't know how to do proper research. Repeating his methods and reasoning over and over and over again must be as tedious as all the xyzz and oral only threads, you know we all tire from those. His methods and reasoning are laid out for anyone to independently verify and assess for themselves. By trying to get him to comment on someone else's thread and methods only makes it seem like he is stepping on someone else's toes. The research is there for anyone to look up, references can more than likely be posted, and it's written in a way that explains his reasoning for doing things the way he does. It's up to you to follow the research, check sources, etc and do what you believe to be the best for you. Not hating on you Rida, but just tryin to point out the things that I picked up on . Whatever you do, I hope you cycle safely and get all you can out of it .
?!

Thnx for ur input dreday ..austinute said he is done with this , and I thought I'm also done and I didn't want to post anything more as I have big respect for austinute and for you. Last thing I want is to make great people angry at me.. But your last input made me add this last post of mine ..

Well I don't think that anything I said show laziness or me wanting to have info on a plate without doing my research.. On the contrary if I was lazy , I ll take the info as it is and wont discuss nothing..
I went to that thread and read the 21 pages , and I read each post for austinute actually I have a file saved in my computer with his name..

I didn't want the guy to repeat himself for 40 times neither get into argument with others, all I did was digging more for info and saying what others say about the subject.. In order to understand the issue completely.. How that could be considered laziness?
Some subjects are more complicated than zyzz and oral only cycles and for sure hcg is one of those important subjects that people argue about.. U hear something and the next day one study here or there to debunk it..

It was austinute who said and I quote now :
Blasting is done to eliminate the chance of "missing any opportunity", but science says... there's only so much hCG we can metabolize
After reading that ^^^^ I understood basting might be considered an xtra procedure to have a better pct.. As we all agree about hcg usage while on cycle..

I apologized and I apologize again if I offended anyone, that's the last thing I can add to this thread.

Shokran habibi for ur wishes of a safe cycle, for you the same..
Peace.

 

[DreDay187]

Thnx for ur input dreday ..austinute said he is done with this , and I thought I'm also done and I didn't want to post anything more as I have big respect for austinute and for you. Last thing I want is to make great people angry at me.. But your last input made me add this last post of mine ..

Well I don't think that anything I said show laziness or me wanting to have info on a plate without doing my research.. On the contrary if I was lazy , I ll take the info as it is and wont discuss nothing..
I went to that thread and read the 21 pages , and I read each post for austinute actually I have a file saved in my computer with his name..

I didn't want the guy to repeat himself for 40 times neither get into argument with others, all I did was digging more for info and saying what others say about the subject.. In order to understand the issue completely.. How that could be considered laziness?
Some subjects are more complicated than zyzz and oral only cycles and for sure hcg is one of those important subjects that people argue about.. U hear something and the next day one study here or there to debunk it..

It was austinute who said and I quote now :
Blasting is done to eliminate the chance of "missing any opportunity", but science says... there's only so much hCG we can metabolize
After reading that ^^^^ I understood basting might be considered an xtra procedure to have a better post cycle therapy (pct).. As we all agree about hcg usage while on cycle..

I apologized and I apologize again if I offended anyone, that's the last thing I can add to this thread.

Shokran habibi for ur wishes of a safe cycle, for you the same..
Peace.

I did not mean it to say you specifically were lazy brother, asking questions is a fundamental step in the learning process for sure. I think Austin just doesn't like the repetitiveness is all but be can speak for himself. I can see how you would think that for a better post cycle therapy (pct) but by using it on cycle there is no reason to use it just before or during post cycle therapy (pct) unless you fail to restart the HPTA.

I didn't take offense to this at all and just wanted to clear up the points I thought I could regarding HCG. Nshallah you have everything you need to put this knowledge to good use and cycle safely.

Ahlan wa sahlan

 

[Rida5d]

I did not mean it to say you specifically were lazy brother, asking questions is a fundamental step in the learning process for sure. I think Austin just doesn't like the repetitiveness is all but be can speak for himself. I can see how you would think that for a better post cycle therapy (pct) but by using it on cycle there is no reason to use it just before or during post cycle therapy (pct) unless you fail to restart the HPTA.

I didn't take offense to this at all and just wanted to clear up the points I thought I could regarding HCG. Nshallah you have everything you need to put this knowledge to good use and cycle safely.

Ahlan wa sahlan

It's people like u and austinute , are guys who make steroidology a better place.. No doubts big brother.
That's why it's the only place I trust when I seek info.
God bless u all.

 

[CanAmBrah]

Ok, here's a question I've been researching and as usual got multiple different answers...

I'm going to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on an upcoming cycle (my first, standard 12 week test E, 2 weeks off, start post cycle therapy (pct) week 15), and have a 5000iu vial.
So, I'll get essentially 10 weeks worth of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at 500iu/wk.
what weeks do I run it?
2-12, 4-14, 5-15?

 

[Austinite]

Ok, here's a question I've been researching and as usual got multiple different answers...

I'm going to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on an upcoming cycle (my first, standard 12 week test E, 2 weeks off, start post cycle therapy (pct) week 15), and have a 5000iu vial.
So, I'll get essentially 10 weeks worth of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at 500iu/wk.
what weeks do I run it?
2-12, 4-14, 5-15?

Always run hCG on cycle till the end of the cycle. If you go into a few days past your last test injection that would be fine. So just do the math to accommodate starting date.

 

[Magical]

Great info man, thanks