Help for a little older dude

[Natehayes]

I was hoping for some help with my goal of putting on size. I know that the main piece of advice is going to be "eat more" and I will indeed be working on that,but please be aware I am truly a hardgainer. I know that when I really eat till the point of wanting to puke I can slowly put on weight and I will need to do that again to get any size but my question at this point is about training routines.

I am 42 years old, 5' 10", 150lbs. Believe it or not I am at my heaviest ever right now.People always think I weight a lot more than I do and are always surprised how light I am.

I graduated college weighing 120lbs. I have always been active (mostly martial arts, particularly mma) with some lifting to boost my strength. In my 30's I was still weighing around 130lbs but had gotten a bit soft. I worked like hell to lose the fat and put on 20lbs naturally. Which pretty much leaves me where I am today.

At the moment I am on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and am taking 200mg of a test a week along with 300mg of deca for really battered joints and tendons. I am only on my 3rd week of the deca add on, but it seems to be going well and my joints are feeling better. As per Irenatat's suggestion I am running the Deca along with hard training to help heal my tendons/joints.

Currently I am using this training protocol and have been seeing good results so far (only 3 weeks in) but am worried I may be overtaining:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/training-forum/593342-bigger-chest.html#post2720207

I saw this post about hardgainers and was intrigued, but since I have been seeing better results than I was with the routine I was using (5x5) I am a little hesitant to change thing up again.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/training-forum/56428-my-top-5-lifting-routines.html#post850370

Any input other than eat more would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mason95]

You need to eat more.

 

[mason95]

Seriously though, that's a tough one to figure out with beat up joints. Hopefully the Deca is kicking in nice by now, next week should feel even better.

I'm actually switching to RJ's old workout by PullinBig. It's low volume, heavy weight, basic movements with plenty of rest and recovery time. It might help your joints by giving you the stimulation needed for joint repair without all the volume.

Check it out, its in my log.

 

[Natehayes]

Thanks for the advice. The joints are doing pretty well so I'm not worried about doing heavy weight, I'm just wondering what method will help me add some size.

I'm doing some serious eating so I think I'm doing ok there, but I'm not sure what type of routine will be the most beneficial for me as I am definitely a hard-gainer.

 

[Natehayes]

Hmmm...first workout of week 4 and I'm not sure if I'm having an off day or not, but I feel a lot weaker than last week.

Overtraining maybe?

 

[Welter]

Thanks for the advice. The joints are doing pretty well so I'm not worried about doing heavy weight, I'm just wondering what method will help me add some size.

I'm doing some serious eating so I think I'm doing ok there, but I'm not sure what type of routine will be the most beneficial for me as I am definitely a hard-gainer.

I would seriously write a log of everything you put in your mouth and then check your macro's. I am betting your not eating enough. I know you say you are but I would check it.

Also, I try and mix up my exercises and routines every 4-6 weeks. ie: 5x5 then 3x10 then 4x6. Same with my exercises. I may do (tri's) skullcrushers, kickbacks and overhead cable rows one month then 3 completely different exercises the next.

My money is still on eating more though.

One more thing, If your not squating and doing deads you absolutely should be.

 

[Natehayes]

I would seriously write a log of everything you put in your mouth and then check your macro's. I am betting your not eating enough. I know you say you are but I would check it.

Also, I try and mix up my exercises and routines every 4-6 weeks. ie: 5x5 then 3x10 then 4x6. Same with my exercises. I may do (tri's) skullcrushers, kickbacks and overhead cable rows one month then 3 completely different exercises the next.

My money is still on eating more though.

One more thing, If your not squating and doing deads you absolutely should be.

Thanks for the words of advice!

I have been using fitday.com to keep track of everything i'm eating. I'm been ending up around 2000 calories, which I am thinking is not enough. As you say, I'm sure I ned to be eating more but I also want to maximize the way I'm training so all that eating won't go to waste when I get the training dialed in.

I definitely do squats and deads. I prefer deads, but switch them up with the squats to make sure I am hitting everything.

That's interesting you mention you switch up so frequently. I hear a lot of people say you have to stick with a program for 12 weeks or so to see how it's working for you.

I know from past experience (when I was stuffing down close to double the calories I am now) that I can grow, but I also know I am a true hard gainer. I was hoping for some guidance on what type of routine would maximize my gains since I am not one of the gentically gifted growers.

 

[Welter]

You may get nice and lean but you will absolutely not grow at 2000 Cals a day. I don't have the slightest idea what your tdee is but it's more than 2000 cals a day. Guaranteed.

 

[Natehayes]

You may get nice and lean but you will absolutely not grow at 2000 Cals a day. I don't have the slightest idea what your tdee is but it's more than 2000 cals a day. Guaranteed.

Yup, you are right. I just ran it and it came back at 2700 cals a day. So I am thinking 3000 should be good for gradual, reasonably lean growth yes?

And you are also right about getting lean. I have been leaning out like crazy.

 

[Welter]

Yup, you are right. I just ran it and it came back at 2700 cals a day. So I am thinking 3000 should be good for gradual, reasonably lean growth yes?

And you are also right about getting lean. I have been leaning out like crazy.

Yea 250-300 over maintenance is a good place to start.

 

[Natehayes]

Yea 250-300 over maintenance is a good place to start.

Thanks again. Will keep using fitday and bump my caloric intake up to around 3000.

Not sure whether to stay with this high volume thing or not though. I'll probably give it another week and see if I am feeling burnt out again next week or not.

 

[Welter]

Thanks again. Will keep using fitday and bump my caloric intake up to around 3000.

Not sure whether to stay with this high volume thing or not though. I'll probably give it another week and see if I am feeling burnt out again next week or not.

Ask 10 people and you'll get 10 answers. I personally subscribe to the theory of increased sets lower reps ie: 4x6 or 4x8 with heaviest weight you can do when trying to increase size. Then 3x10 or 3x15 when trying to lean up. Right or wrong? I have no idea but I'm happy with my routine(s)

 

[Irentat]

I am 42 years old, 5' 10", 150lbs. Believe it or not I am at my heaviest ever right now.People always think I weight a lot more than I do and are always surprised how light I am.

As per Irentat's suggestion I am running the Deca along with hard training to help heal my tendons/joints.

Currently I am using this training protocol and have been seeing good results so far (only 3 weeks in) but am worried I may be overtaining.

Any input other than eat more would be greatly appreciated.

Nate,
Yeah a situation like this is why I put that statement in my article to not overtrain. But you have made me think I did not state it clearly in the article I wrote. I meant stress the joint with intensity not repetition. My lifting program was more 3X8 reps heavy with reduced range of motion so I could carry more weight and i was religious about stretching before and during the lifting session. Further, I NEVER spent more than 45 minutes lifting. If I did more, I felt I might overtrain but never felt sore after my workouts. The rest of the time was cardio or stretching. However, I was never going for size but still gained 20 lb of muscle on a maintenance diet.

As an FYI, my joint and back pains only got better and better as I moved into my cycle. I was 16 weeks on 400 mg EW of Deca and it wasn't until the last month I stopped improving, painwise.

So don't beat up your joints. Make sure and do some really good stretching that is also benefitting the joint.

 

[Natehayes]

Nate,
Yeah a situation like this is why I put that statement in my article to not overtrain. But you have made me think I did not state it clearly in the article I wrote. I meant stress the joint with intensity not repetition. My lifting program was more 3X8 reps heavy with reduced range of motion so I could carry more weight and i was religious about stretching before and during the lifting session. Further, I NEVER spent more than 45 minutes lifting. If I did more, I felt I might overtrain but never felt sore after my workouts. The rest of the time was cardio or stretching. However, I was never going for size but still gained 20 lb of muscle on a maintenance diet.

As an FYI, my joint and back pains only got better and better as I moved into my cycle. I was 16 weeks on 400 mg EW of Deca and it wasn't until the last month I stopped improving, painwise.

So don't beat up your joints. Make sure and do some really good stretching that is also benefitting the joint.

Thanks for the clarification and the advice.

After poking around, thinking about it, and listening to my body, I think I will switch to a lower rep/higher weight type routine. Although I like the results I am seeing, it does feel like I am beating up my body.

Will follow your advice on stretching as well. Thanks again for helping out.

 

[zedhed]

You are a hard gainer. So you need to work to slow down your metabolism. Also less is more for you in your workouts.
Slow down your metabolism;
I know everybody says to eat 6,7,8 times per day. But if you already have a fast metabolism this is not for you. By eating that frequently you are helping that metab to be insatiable. So you need to eat the biggest meals that you can and try not to eat more then 5x/day.
Less is more;
In your workouts less is more.
You might try to focus on just the big compound lifts. Go as heavy as you can. You also might try doing 10 x 3. Yes that is 10 set s of 3 reps in the lifts that you choose.
If you do cardio, do as little as you can. I know for guyz our age you should do some. But keep it minimal.
Your ratio of test to deca seems off to me. Is that perscribed for you like that? Any dostinex?
I would think you might do better at 500mg test/ week and 300 mg deca/week.
Good luck and keep posting.

 

[Natehayes]

Thanks for the reply!

The eating definitely seems to make sense. I'll give it a shot.

I like the idea of the rep/set ratio as well, and I definitely like compound lifts.

Yeah, the test is doctor prescribed for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) purposes and the deca is self prescribed for joint relief. I was keeping the test low as per Irentat's suggestion to allow the deca's positive collagen synthesis to have its best effect. I am sure I could bulk better on a higher dose of test, but at the moment I'm fine with keeping it low and adjusting diet and workout to add size.

I will keep you posted!

You are a hard gainer. So you need to work to slow down your metabolism. Also less is more for you in your workouts.
Slow down your metabolism;
I know everybody says to eat 6,7,8 times per day. But if you already have a fast metabolism this is not for you. By eating that frequently you are helping that metab to be insatiable. So you need to eat the biggest meals that you can and try not to eat more then 5x/day.
Less is more;
In your workouts less is more.
You might try to focus on just the big compound lifts. Go as heavy as you can. You also might try doing 10 x 3. Yes that is 10 set s of 3 reps in the lifts that you choose.
If you do cardio, do as little as you can. I know for guyz our age you should do some. But keep it minimal.
Your ratio of test to deca seems off to me. Is that perscribed for you like that? Any dostinex?
I would think you might do better at 500mg test/ week and 300 mg deca/week.
Good luck and keep posting.

 

[zedhed]

So bro, what did you decide to do and how are you doing with it?

 

[Natehayes]

So bro, what did you decide to do and how are you doing with it?

So far all I've managed to do is get the flu and shovel a shitload of snow.

I will update again when I am back on track.

 

[zedhed]

Get better soon bro.
Snow LOL yup and fuggin cold!

 

[Natehayes]

Short update: tried the low volume, high weight routine (RJ's old signature). Despite not felling like I was doing much it kept me pretty sure, only problem was I have a lot of existing nerve and ligament issues that apparently did not like the heavy weights.

I think I will probably switch back to a lower weight, higher volume type routine and accept the fact I am never going to be as big as I want until I get my injuries sorted out (doing PT now), but at least I can build some muscle and get lean.